Alright guys, I pulled the trigger on a set of CSR Elite pedals this morning. I don't feel like I need them, I'm not unhappy with my T500 pedals at all, but I feel like after reading so much praise about Fanatec's pedals that I need to at least give them a fair shake before I bad mouth Fanatec's reliability. Maybe the pedals will be the best purchase I ever made or maybe they'll give me nothing but problems. Time will tell but it will be an interesting experiment on my dime. I'll just sell them if I'm not happy with them but at least I'll be able to say I've got some experience with Fanatec's pedals.
Fanatec CSR Elite Pedals
- Thread starter Blkout
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Have you used a set of pedals with a load cell? Beyond the differences in electronics, the basic idea with a load cell is that the pedal gets extremely firm with more pressure. A bushing behind the brake pedal is very similar in feel. Increasing resistance with pressure.
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Yes, I have a set of CSR Elite pedals, and the idea afaik is that the closer you get to 100% brake pressure the harder you have to press, which means that the pedal throw is not linear like a potentiometer pedal, instead of having to remember how far you have to move your foot before locking up you have to remember how hard to press, which is supposedly easier for us humans to learn by muscle memory.
Now I understand that the bashermod will make the pedal more firm, but the potentiometer is still linear. I guess you can kinda replicate the same, since once you start compressing the rubber you need to press harder to move the same distance, but to me it sounds like it won't fully replicate how a loadcell brake feels and works.
But I'm open to be proven wrong on that, I'm trying to understand
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Yes, I have a set of CSR Elite pedals, and the idea afaik is that the closer you get to 100% brake pressure the harder you have to press, which means that the pedal throw is not linear like a potentiometer pedal, instead of having to remember how far you have to move your foot before locking up you have to remember how hard to press, which is supposedly easier for us humans to learn by muscle memory.
Now I understand that the bashermod will make the pedal more firm, but the potentiometer is still linear. I guess you can kinda replicate the same, since once you start compressing the rubber you need to press harder to move the same distance, but to me it sounds like it won't fully replicate how a loadcell brake feels and works.
But I'm open to be proven wrong on that, I'm trying to understand
Kjell, I can't prove you wrong until you try a set of T500 pedals with a Basher mod. I have both here in front of me, CSR Elite pedals and T500 pedals with basher mod. I can tell you that you would be amazed at just how similar it feels. If I had to actually get as detailed as possible, I would say that the Elite's have a very slightly more pedal travel than the T500's, but with a single 60 durometer bushing which is the softest that Basher includes with the kit, it feels very similar to the Elites load cell but probably slightly stiffer.
You have to understand from an electronics point of view, neither is more accurate, just two different ways of receiving the same signal which is essentially how much brake you want to apply. The bushing mod simply adds that resistance that you would normally feel with a load cell. Since the bushing mod still uses a pot, it is still measuring distance traveled but the pedal distance traveled is heavily dependent on how hard you press the brake pedal and compress the bushing. The bushings resistance increases as you compress it much the same way a load cell feels as you add more pressure.
To answer your question about why manufacturers sell load cell pedals or mods, well, lets be honest, I don't think anyone actually tried using a skateboard bushing before Basher did and from a marketing standpoint, it certainly sounds more technical to use a load cell than a $10 skateboard bushing. I'm not arguing they're identical, but I'll argue all day long that they're so close in this particular application that you would be hard pressed to switch between them and say to yourself honestly that it feels radically different in feel and performance.
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I wish I had the skill to draw what I'm about to attempt to explain with words instead, cos it'd make things so much more easy to understand
Anyways, here it goes:
Let's for the sake of making it easy pretend that both pedals has a throw of 10cm.
On a potentiometer pedal you will apply 10% brake pressure for each 1cm of throw you move the pedal. Adding a rubber spacer does not change this one bit, it just makes it so you have to push harder to reach those last few cm of throw.
On a loadcell pedal the brake pressure is not linear like a potentiometer, so you could have 0% brake pressure during the first 2 cm, then slowly start to gain brake pressure the closer you get to max throw.
So, when you're at 8cm you may still only have 60% brake pressure (as opposed to 80% on the potentimeter pedal), and you have just 2cm throw left to gain that last 40% of pressure.
Now, all my numbers where pulled straight out of where the sun don't shine, so take them with a shovel of salt, all I'm trying to do is point out that there's something physically different between the pedals that I don't think the bushermod can possibly replicate.
It might feel similar in stiffness, but I find it hard to believe that it's the same in terms of brake feel.
That said, I'll have to take your and others word for it because I haven't tested a modded pot pedal.
Anyways, here it goes:
Let's for the sake of making it easy pretend that both pedals has a throw of 10cm.
On a potentiometer pedal you will apply 10% brake pressure for each 1cm of throw you move the pedal. Adding a rubber spacer does not change this one bit, it just makes it so you have to push harder to reach those last few cm of throw.
On a loadcell pedal the brake pressure is not linear like a potentiometer, so you could have 0% brake pressure during the first 2 cm, then slowly start to gain brake pressure the closer you get to max throw.
So, when you're at 8cm you may still only have 60% brake pressure (as opposed to 80% on the potentimeter pedal), and you have just 2cm throw left to gain that last 40% of pressure.
Now, all my numbers where pulled straight out of where the sun don't shine, so take them with a shovel of salt, all I'm trying to do is point out that there's something physically different between the pedals that I don't think the bushermod can possibly replicate.
It might feel similar in stiffness, but I find it hard to believe that it's the same in terms of brake feel.
That said, I'll have to take your and others word for it because I haven't tested a modded pot pedal.
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Kjell, I completely undertstand what you're saying but what you're talking about is electronic differences and what I'm saying is that you will likely never notice the difference in the real world because they feel so similar mechanically. Ultimately the feeling you're trying to achieve is how much pressure does it take to get the right amount of stopping force. Whether its a load cell or bushing, both work by using muscle memory, just in a slightly different way electronically.
You were right on the money talking about the bushing, it does make it harder to achieve that last bit of brake pressure because the bushing is compressing adding resistance, much the same way a load cell does, except electronically a load cell vs. pot get their signal a different way, but to you as the user, you will likely not notice that electronic difference and much more likely will notice that both are making you apply brake force by pressure. Is a load cell slightly more accurate in this regard? Maybe so, but how many of the top sim racers in the world still use pot based brakes? Most all of them so what I'm saying is, both are very effective, but I can certainly understand the logic behind why you would want to use a pressure based brake system because its what makes sense to our brain after years of driving a real car. Using a load cell or bushing both effectively trick your brain into thinking they work the same way.
You were right on the money talking about the bushing, it does make it harder to achieve that last bit of brake pressure because the bushing is compressing adding resistance, much the same way a load cell does, except electronically a load cell vs. pot get their signal a different way, but to you as the user, you will likely not notice that electronic difference and much more likely will notice that both are making you apply brake force by pressure. Is a load cell slightly more accurate in this regard? Maybe so, but how many of the top sim racers in the world still use pot based brakes? Most all of them so what I'm saying is, both are very effective, but I can certainly understand the logic behind why you would want to use a pressure based brake system because its what makes sense to our brain after years of driving a real car. Using a load cell or bushing both effectively trick your brain into thinking they work the same way.
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I can't disagree with what you're saying, in the end it's all about tricking our brains that one step closer to thinking we're actually driving a car not playing videogames at home ^^
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Was thinking of buying the load cell Fanatec CSR Elite's for my TM TX until I found/tried this:
Put this gem between the brake lever and stop (housing) - drops right in!
Actually it works pretty good and haven't even had to change settings in my sims. Seriously, I'm not suggesting this as a replacement for a good pedal set but will do till I order a new pedal set - Elite's or T3PA's.
Put this gem between the brake lever and stop (housing) - drops right in!
Actually it works pretty good and haven't even had to change settings in my sims. Seriously, I'm not suggesting this as a replacement for a good pedal set but will do till I order a new pedal set - Elite's or T3PA's.
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Where can I buy something like that?Was thinking of buying the load cell Fanatec CSR Elite's for my TM TX until I found/tried this:
View attachment 56403
Put this gem between the brake lever and stop (housing) - drops right in!
Actually it works pretty good and haven't even had to change settings in my sims. Seriously, I'm not suggesting this as a replacement for a good pedal set but will do till I order a new pedal set - Elite's or T3PA's.
Cheers!
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Where can I buy something like that?
Cheers!
William's mod can most certainly be purchased at Lowes or Home Depot.
If you have a set of T500 pedals, I highly recommend the Basher brake mod, Its cheap and works like it was built that way from the factory. Nothing against William's mod above but the Basher mod is so cheap, there's not much reason not to use it if you're looking for a cheap brake mod. I love my Basher brake mod.
http://www.basherboards.com/T500RS-BMK
Edit, I just noticed that William's mod is probably just for TX pedals, the Basher brake mod only works with the T500 pedals.
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Seems a very cool mod to me. Can you give me more details on your mod please? And a photo perhaps? I'd like to know more.
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I don't have any photos of the assembly taken apart, but it's pretty easy to understand if you take it apart and look at the assembly. By changing the actuator rod one hole position you increase your leverage on the load cell, but it makes the spring force very weak, so you need to add some back with the dampers and from there fine tuning by adding a little longer spacer in between the actuation rod and the polyurethane "spring" that is under it. I added little magnets one at a time until the feel was right, then made a new spacer. The variable damping I accomplished by using a thin piece of rubber membrane over the damper pistons - it has little holes in it that line up with some in the plastic piston, but the plastic piston had more and bigger holes, so that when pedal pressure is applied, the rubber is forced down against the piston, blocking some of the holes and adding damping, then when the pedal is released the rubber is pushed out of the way as oil flows through the larger holes in the piston in the reverse direction.
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I have a question about the CSR Elites. The brakes use load cell, but what about the gas and clutch pedals? Is there any improvement to those pedals over the g27 pedals(with the gteye mod spring switch)?
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The CSR Elites use pots and springs for the throttle and clutch just like the G27 pedals.
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I am using the GTEYE mod on the g27 pedals. I put the GTEYE spring in the brake cylinder, moved the former brake spring to the clutch cylinder, and moved the former clutch spring to the gas cylinder.
Would I be able to use the stronger springs that I am using in this pedal set to mod the csr elites, or do you find the springs to be so much better than the stock g27 springs that it would not be necessary?
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