F1 IS BECOMING COMPETITIVE?

[Antony Snook]

I'm loving Indycar at the moment.

The reason F1 is the top series is teams design all the car. Exept Aston Martin who take picks and regenerate what a rival is doing. But it dose not make the car perform at the front of the pack. So they are doing something wrong. I just don't enjoy spec racing. Last time i was at Montreal we saw Ferrari Challenge where everyone has the same car model. Just individual paint and sponsors. Its Just dull. Just like when i went to Toronto INDY 1993 it was a snooze fest. I stuck it out for the Can AM race at the end. That was the highlight of the weekend.

 

[Antony Snook]

Theoretically. But how many road cars use a V-12 or a V-10? or any of the high tech innovations common in F1 engines? Much of this would be inefficient or not economical for road car use. And this supports my statement that F1 is near spec racer status. If you want technology relevant to the average road car specify a DOHC I-4 or V-6, and fuel economy and efficiency over raw power.

And hybrid technology is a dead end, it will be obsolete before economical. Just look at the hybrid aircraft of the late forties, piston engines for cruise and jet engines for speed; none made it past the test stage because before they could be perfected jet engines had become reliable and efficient.

But the best thing that could happen for F1 is to get rid of that dinosaur Ecclestone, he has been using the series as his private cash cow for forty years.

Ecolstone left years ago. He just watches the races now. But big companys like Ferrari and Jaguar are going for the small engines. The only big blocks are antique cars. Porche (Audi and VW) want to go to F1 with a highbrid. INDY car would not let them do it. I think F1 will merge with Formula e over the next decade or so. The combustion engine is being phased out due to environmental concerns.

 

[jgf]

Ecclestone still holds the reins, no one gets appointed, no rules get changed, etc. without his approval.

Yes we will soon have electric races, if for no other reason than a test bed for road cars. Batteries are still the major impediment though, the public will not take interest until the performance and the range are equal to gasoline engines. And there are still other alternatives, "Indycar" has run on methanol, biodiesel is available in many areas; either, once in mass production, would be cheaper and more plentiful than petro based fuels. (But what would we do for vintage racing? ...where i spent twenty years.)

 

[jgf]

...I just don't enjoy spec racing. Last time i was at Montreal we saw Ferrari Challenge where everyone has the same car model. Just individual paint and sponsors....

If you want a true "Driver Championship" it must be a spec series so the driver is the only difference.

By contrast a true "Manufacturer Championship" would be computer controlled cars so the car would make the difference.

Watch some of the old IROC races where you would see top F1, Indycar, NASCAR, and sport car drivers against each other.

 

[RedBull48]

Is there somewhere online where I can watch Indycar free in Europe? The official NTT Series Youtube Channel seems to only have clips and old races.

Try http://fullmatchtv.com

Once there in the top right there is a drop down called "other sports". You can find indycar replays in there. From there you can watch in browser or download to watch locally.

 

[bi11y]

I'm loving Indycar at the moment.

100% agree. Indycar is awesome at the moment and currently my favorite. Formula e is different but also more entertaining in most ways than F1 particularly on competitiveness...

Maybe Hypercar category in WEC is the only thing less competitive than F1?

 

[Jan Larsen]

Maybe Hypercar category in WEC is the only thing less competitive than F1?

For now. Its silence before the storm...

 

[Mrwells4Q]

I'm loving Indycar at the moment.

I was thinking exactly the same with Indycar. Someone can be down in 20th or 30th position but still be up near the top towards the end. Non of this politics thats going on or constant hearing Christian Horner talking from the pitwall every race. It just seems alot more entertaining. I think this F1 season isn't going to be a great one until the porpoising of the cars are dealt with (strange after changing to 18' wheels the cars are bouncing.. Probably not as simpler as that

 

[Wozrop]

Theoretically. But how many road cars use a V-12 or a V-10? or any of the high tech innovations common in F1 engines? Much of this would be inefficient or not economical for road car use. And this supports my statement that F1 is near spec racer status. If you want technology relevant to the average road car specify a DOHC I-4 or V-6, and fuel economy and efficiency over raw power.

And hybrid technology is a dead end, it will be obsolete before economical. Just look at the hybrid aircraft of the late forties, piston engines for cruise and jet engines for speed; none made it past the test stage because before they could be perfected jet engines had become reliable and efficient.

But the best thing that could happen for F1 is to get rid of that dinosaur Ecclestone, he has been using the series as his private cash cow for forty years.

Hybrids are a dead end because airplanes. That's hilarious. For one Airplanes have to actually travel places, F1 cars don't support supply chains or anything, they can be whatever F1 wants it to be, they could be entirely electric today if they wanted, they could have mandated a specific 1996 Renault V10 or whatever it was. F1 cars today are hybrids because F1 and the manufacturers want to simultaneously A: be the fastest motorsport in the world, and B: look like they have road going relevance, eg turbo small V6 electric. Yeah they could be electric, but for the same length of Grand Prix they'd probably be considerably slower than Formula E cars, given they'd have to do 4 times the distance assuming no change in race distances. Also of note, there is no technology bleed, there really never was, its all marketing, people tend to assume that if Ferrari makes a good F1 car, that their road cars must be good aswell, same for McLaren, Mercedes, Alpine, Aston, Alfa, etc etc. Making a bespoke car for high performance is very different from mass producing a car for fuel efficiency and emissions. Also Ecclestone doesn't own/run F1 anymore, he hasn't for like 5 years.

 

[Wozrop]

I was thinking exactly the same with Indycar. Someone can be down in 20th or 30th position but still be up near the top towards the end. Non of this politics thats going on or constant hearing Christian Horner talking from the pitwall every race. It just seems alot more entertaining. I think this F1 season isn't going to be a great one until the porpoising of the cars are dealt with (strange after changing to 18' wheels the cars are bouncing.. Probably not as simpler as that

The Porpoising is down to the ground effect floors bottoming out and stalling, they lose downforce, bounce up, generate downforce again, bottom out again, and so on and so on. Andretti said they solved it in the 80s with extra dampers to keep the car from bottoming out.