DIY WInd Sim Fan and Motorshield Question

TMW89 · May 17, 2023

Hi,

So I want to build a windsim as simply as possible.

Ive seen some 380cfm 140mm fans that require 12v 9.0amp

cooling fan PFC1412HE-00,Server Cooler Fan PFC1412HE-00 12v 9.00A, inverter Cooling Fan for 140x140x38mm 4-wire : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

www.amazon.co.uk

Are these feasable or just overkill? What kind of motoshield and 12v power supply would i need?

Ideally id like to just use a cheap uno r3 clone and run 2 fans straight from that. any idea what PWM fans i could use that would push enough air. alo what power supply would i need?

Cheers

blekenbleu · May 17, 2023

TMW89 said:
Are these feasable or just overkill?

Your call; "one man's floor is another man's ceiling"

TMW89 said:
What kind of motoshield and 12v power supply would i need?

4-wire typically means 1 wire directly controls fan speed by PWM, so no need for shield.

Amazon listing notes: Currently unavailable.

TMW89 · May 17, 2023

blekenbleu said:
Your call; "one man's floor is another man's ceiling"

4-wire typically means 1 wire directly controls fan speed by PWM, so no need for shield.
As text notes, 12VDC at 13 Watts (1.14 Amperes) power required.
Amazon listing notes: Currently unavailable.

ok thanks so as i understand it, i could run those 140mm fans straight off a r3 uno with just a 12v 10amp powersupply??

Ruttman98 · May 17, 2023

A seller offers the same model server fan with a different connector on Amazon US:

PFC1412HE-00 12v 9.00A 14038 for Delta Server Chassis 14CM Gale Volume Cooling Fan 4wire https://a.co/d/9h9uNAJ

Questions:

Is anyone familiar with Delta quality or whether this fan is a good price / value?

Is there a connector adaptor produced or are standard PWM terminals and connectors readily available?

Thank you!

blekenbleu · May 17, 2023

Ruttman98 said:
Delta

Delta has been in business for decades;
those fans are built at the same factory as many others,
PFC1412HE-00XXX DC FAN SPECIFICATION FOR APPROVAL

TMW89 · May 17, 2023

those fans seemed to be the beefiest i could find as far as CFM.

what dc supply would i need and motorshield.

if one fan is rated at 9amps does that mean? do i ignore that and just focus on the wattage?

blekenbleu · May 17, 2023

TMW89 said:
rated at 9amps

I stand corrected: they are rated 108 Watts here:
PFC1412HE-00 12V 9.00A 108W 7500RPM 380CFM 140X140X38MM 4-Wire Cooling Fan

motorshield

see #2

the beefiest i could find

I use these (280CFM): Dual Ball Bearings High Speed Durable 4 Pin DC 12V 5A 7000 RPM Cooling Fan Brushless Replacement Case Fan

500+ CFM here with PWM option

TMW89 · May 18, 2023

those fans you use look good but 70db??? i hear people saying 60 is like a space shuttle launch.

can you hear whilst in vr? i have a reverb too

blekenbleu · May 18, 2023

TMW89 said:
i hear people saying 60

I also hear too many stupid things and read many more on the Internet.
FWIW, U.S. Wikipedia is relatively lacking in stupidity for technical content:
Decibel: Acoustics

TMW89 said:
can you hear whilst in vr? i have a reverb too

I use my Reverb without ear speakers in a room with 9.3 surround.
Not that I have done it lately, but main speakers can play loud enough
with patio door open for listening to music while riding a lawn mower.

Even in tin tops with windows up, driving on track will be noisy,
what with full throttle engine operation and low restriction exhaust,
then tires squealing. With windows open or topless, track time is loud enough
that intercoms are needed for communicating with passengers.

Practically, they are not run at 7000rpm; fans are only 70 cm distant, with shrouds:

AntMiner Fan duct 120mm

TMW89 · May 18, 2023

blekenbleu said:
I also hear too many stupid things and read many more on the Internet.
FWIW, U.S. Wikipedia is relatively lacking in stupidity for technical content:
Decibel: Acoustics

I use my Reverb without ear speakers in a room with 9.3 surround.
Not that I have done it lately, but main speakers can play loud enough
with patio door open for listening to music while riding a lawn mower.

Even in tin tops with windows up, driving on track will be noisy,
what with full throttle engine operation and low restriction exhaust,
then tires squealing. With windows open or topless, track time is loud enough
that intercoms are needed for communicating with passengers.

Practically, they are not run at 7000rpm; fans are only 70 cm distant, with shrouds:

AntMiner Fan duct 120mm

my main concern in regards to sound was wether id hear these fans whilst wearing the reverb headset, any idea.

thanks to your help im torn between two different models

200cfm at 40db or 280 cfm at 64db

do you feel like you need more with your fans? do you even run them at full spec?

blekenbleu · May 18, 2023

TMW89 said:
200cfm at 40db or 280 cfm at 64db

Limiting PWM to 280 cfm fan can reduce it to 200cfm and lower dB.
dB will change anyway with ducting.
Without ducts, CFM are wasted by air sucked back around to fan input.

TMW89 · May 18, 2023

ok thats clear. im about to purchase. my last question is in regrds to wiring.

can i use dupont cables just for the pwm side of things and maybe some thicker stuff for the live and ground?

or does it all need to be thicker? im guessing those dupont cables cant take 10amps

blekenbleu · May 18, 2023

TMW89 said:
can i use dupont cables just for the pwm side of things and maybe some thicker stuff for the live and ground?

Duponts are OK for PWM, temporarily.
Soldered wires and better connections are wanted for reliable long term usage.
Power and ground between supply and fans should be e.g. at least 16 AWG for 10A.
Ground between Arduino and fan can be Dupont, temporarily.
Before connection, test to be certain that fan power and Arduino power are isolated.
Ground loops are bad.

TMW89 · May 18, 2023

thats where im confused. the small pins that fit into the arduino are only rated to what 3amps max?

what better connection could i use that would fit?

id be following this diagram but with the pwm split for each fan going into the correct two headers on the arduino and not using a toggle switch as its not needed for me.

im just confused as to how to get the 16awg ground wire safely into the arduino.

Insert Coin · May 18, 2023

You can use a thin wire for the yellow wire in the picture as the current is very low on the PWM signal.
You should use thick wires for the black and red wires as the current flowing to the fans is high. But you can use another black and thinner wire going from the ground of the power supply to the ground of the arduino, so the arduino has the same ground as the fans have. The arduino itself hardly draws any current, that's why it can be a thinner ground wire going from the power supply to the arduino.

TMW89 · May 19, 2023

ok thats clear. the question i then have is how do i connect the thicker wire to the arduino?

without a pin is it a case of stripping it, pushing it into a header and soldering?

TMW89 · May 19, 2023

blekenbleu said:
Limiting PWM to 280 cfm fan can reduce it to 200cfm and lower dB.
dB will change anyway with ducting.
Without ducts, CFM are wasted by air sucked back around to fan input.

your system at 280cfm sounds about how much i want. i can find some similar fans in my country. the only confusion for me is the wiring as far as power. specifically how to use the thicker guage with the arduino. wont the thicker wire burn the arduino out? how comes the wire from the fans themselves isnt that thick?

Insert Coin · May 19, 2023

Apparently I'm not making myself clear. This is what I meant, thin wires to the arduino, thick black and red wires to the fans as those are the only ones drawing a lot of power (the thin yellow one only controls the speed):

blekenbleu · May 19, 2023

TMW89 said:
how to get the 16awg ground wire safely into the arduino

Sorry for the delay in responding; I neglected to post this yesterday.
Your updated diagram is correct.
No risk of burning so long as power (current) to motor does not run thru Arduino pins.

Connect +/- 12VDC power wires directly from supply to fans.
Power Arduino by USB.
Verify fan power is isolated from Arduino
(potential ground loop from USB ground back thru wall outlet to cheesy fan power supply)

THEN, connect an Arduino GND pin to fan ground.
This will complete circuit for PWM signal(s)
THEN, connect Arduino PWM pin(s) to fan PWM pin(s).
Personally, I want separate PWM for left and right fans.

TMW89 · May 19, 2023

thank you fellas for your support and patience, that has cleared it up greatly for me.

so using the above diagram but with two seperate pwm cables for pins 9 and 10 (simhub support)

if i was to run some 9amp fans requiring 18 amps in total would a 20amp psu such as this work.

if so would i wire a normal household plug into it? i guess the plug would need a 20amp fuse?

and then follow the above diagram (with the appropriate awg wire)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Surom-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Computer/dp/B072J97N8T/ref=sr_1_3?crid=EGQ76A3K15GI&keywords=20amp+psu&qid=1684505711&sprefix=20amp+psu%2Caps%2C61&sr=8-3