CPU upgrade needed!

Now the benchmarks are in, do you plan on taking the plunge?
The benchmarks are all over the place, even for the same games from different sites...

There's one acc benchmark with the CPUs being over clocked by pure pc, polish site that works well with Google translate:

I would basically get 90 fps instead 80 fps when scaling it up.
Is it worth it?
Not really...

Will I still do it?
Yep.

I'll put my 10600k on local ebay tonight and when I have a buyer, I'll buy the 11600k.

I'm hoping to get 120€ for it and paying about 250€ for the new one.

One big positive is that I could just lift the cooler, swap CPUs and put the cooler back on and that's it.

Here's a Screenshot of the acc oc test:
Screenshot_20210331_164633.jpg
 
The benchmarks are all over the place, even for the same games from different sites...

There's one acc benchmark with the CPUs being over clocked by pure pc, polish site that works well with Google translate:

I would basically get 90 fps instead 80 fps when scaling it up.
Is it worth it?
Not really...

Will I still do it?
Yep.

I'll put my 10600k on local ebay tonight and when I have a buyer, I'll buy the 11600k.

I'm hoping to get 120€ for it and paying about 250€ for the new one.

One big positive is that I could just lift the cooler, swap CPUs and put the cooler back on and that's it.

Here's a Screenshot of the acc oc test:
View attachment 460023

I was £165 out of pocket with my upgrade to a Ryzen 5600X if that is of any help :cry:.

I'd be surprised if you can't get any more than 120€ for a 10600K cpu. I also noticed the 11600KF is a bit cheaper.
 
I was £165 out of pocket with my upgrade to a Ryzen 5600X if that is of any help :cry:.

I'd be surprised if you can't get any more than 120€ for a 10600K cpu. I also noticed the 11600KF is a bit cheaper.
But the 5600x is also better :D

The 10600k is 195€ new at the moment here in Germany.. Maybe I'll get 150€ for it but I don't want to plan with more than 100€ honestly...

The kf is quite a bit cheaper at the moment. With the current gpu "crisis" right now I'd like to get some okayish onboard though for office stuff if my dedicated gpu develops issues.

Or maybe not haha. First it needs to be widely available so the initial price drop happens, then I'll see :)
 
Screenshot_20210507-091400.png


Thinking of going for this combo as suggested. It could be done cheaper with a kf, z490/cheaper z590 and and 90mm cooler... I'm reckoning it will be fairly future proof and maybe even properly run ACC and RF2 in VR! It's pricey but I'll hopefully get a big chunk back for my current mobo with cooler and cpu sold in a plug and play package deal.

Current setup has being going nicely running AC at very low settings on the Od+. I even found settings to make ACC playable at 45fps. Manged to get a very stable manual overclock going and have been running it for 2 months now without a single crash or issue. Thanks to everyone for their help :thumbsup:
 
View attachment 472534

Thinking of going for this combo as suggested. It could be done cheaper with a kf, z490/cheaper z590 and and 90mm cooler... I'm reckoning it will be fairly future proof and maybe even properly run ACC and RF2 in VR! It's pricey but I'll hopefully get a big chunk back for my current mobo with cooler and cpu sold in a plug and play package deal.

Current setup has being going nicely running AC at very low settings on the Od+. I even found settings to make ACC playable at 45fps. Manged to get a very stable manual overclock going and have been running it for 2 months now without a single crash or issue. Thanks to everyone for their help :thumbsup:
320€ for a mobo?
Do you need a specific feature of it or do you want the looks?

I paid 140€ for my z490 gaming X and it has all the settings I need, good VRMs for the cpu power supply and enough slots for everything.

Also I sadly didn't update my post:
I won't buy an 11600k. In some games a 10700k and in most games a 10900k give better performance!

The 11th series has some internal latency issue that leads to lower performance with some games.

Acc looks okay but that's only one game on a polish website...

If you really want to be future proof, but a z490 board and get 10850k.

It will probably give you the same fps as the 11600k would give but yoh would have 10 cores instead of 6.

The cooler: I would recommend the noctua too but there's a slightly different version..
The nh D15S.
Basically the standard version has issues with the gpu distance with some mobos so the gpu leans against the cooler or it won't even fit at all.
The s version is slightly off set to the top.
Sadly it only comes with 1 fan but it comes with clamps for the second one if you need it, so you can just order the second one on top.
But check the case width! The S builds slightly higher with the second fan!


I'll edit in benchmarks and a combo to buy in about an hour. Not at the pc right now
 
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320€ for a mobo?
Do you need a specific feature of it or do you want the looks?

I paid 140€ for my z490 gaming X and it has all the settings I need, good VRMs for the cpu power supply and enough slots for everything.

Also I sadly didn't update my post:
I won't buy an 11600k. In some games a 10700k and in most games a 10900k give better performance!

The 11th series has some internal latency issue that leads to lower performance with some games.

Acc looks okay but that's only one game on a polish website...

If you really want to be future proof, but a z490 board and get 10850k.

It will probably give you the same fps as the 11600k would give but yoh would have 10 cores instead of 6.

The cooler: I would recommend the noctua too but there's a slightly different version..
The nh D15S.
Basically the standard version has issues with the gpu distance with some mobos so the gpu leans against the cooler or it won't even fit at all.
The s version is slightly off set to the top.
Sadly it only comes with 1 fan but it comes with clamps for the second one if you need it, so you can just order the second one on top.
But check the case width! The S builds slightly higher with the second fan!


I'll edit in benchmarks and a combo to buy in about an hour. Not at the pc right now

Thanks Rasmus! I have wandered down the wrong path it seems :roflmao: The z590 mobo's are pricey! No don't care how it looks, I just picked a mid of range one, mainly as it has more USB slots. I currently have 6 pemanently plugged in! Don't have a hub or a USB card so was justifying a mid range expense that way.

The 590's seem to be recommended for the 11th gen due to the pathways.. if the tenth gen with more cores has similar single thread that's a no brainer!! I had thought you went for the 11600k...

I have 170-175mm of height clearance with the current mobo. 160 - 165 needed. Tight to the side door but if it fits I might aswell go for it! The S model cooler looks like a good shout too. The standard model is running very tight to the top of the GPU but there is plenty of room up to the top of the case! Sounds like these all have more foot warmer potential than my current CPU, which does just fine on the current 90mm noctua!
 
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Benchmarks:

ACC Benchmark from a polish site:
1620384927477.png


I love this one as it has all CPUs OC'ed to their maximum.
So there is a difference between 10600k and 10700k. But the price difference when I bought my 10600k was 170€!
Then comes the 11600k a tiny bit higher, then the 5600x.
Looks normal until there..
Then the 10900k chimes in with just 100 MHz above the 10700k.
I find this very weird as more cores beyond 5 cores won't give you any fps in ACC. I tested this by shutting of HT and one core after another on my i5.

So I had a look at the other specs: The i9 has 20MB of cache, the i7 16MB.
Might explain the difference, since ACC scales quite nicely with higher ram clocks (not timings, raw clocks!).

Now for ACC, they're all close together but I thought the 11600k was still quite good. 54.6 to 61.2 fps means the 11600k keeping 90 fps (important for VR as we know), when the 10600k would drop to 80.3 fps.


But then you check other benchmarks, with other games and then the pages turn...
Now only benchmarks are "valid" for such a comparison if the difference between the 10700k and the 10900k are very very small. Their single thread performance is almost identical, and simracing titles don't scale with more cores.
So we need to find games that don't show more fps on the more clock CPUs but rather show the single speed performance differences.

Borderlands 3 seems to be a good benchmark for us:
1620385976190.png

You can see that all CPUs with the same single thread performance have identical fps.
And while the 11600k beats the 10600k, the question is: by how much?
And why buy the 11600k if you could buy a 10700k or 10850k with more cores and no strange latency issues?


1620385833128.png


Hitman 2, it's a bit weird. But you can see the 5600x and 5800x being almost identical, so the 2 more cores didn't gain much on average fps.
However the 5900x boosts a lot higher, therefore more fps.
The 10900k has more cache and clocks a bit higher, so more fps than the 10700k.

But: the 10700k is identical to the 11600k so why bother buying a z590 mobo instead of z490 + 10850k?

And a last one: F1 2020
1620386052935.png


Now all these are without overclocking, so the 10600k looks worse than it is, the 11600k clocks a bit higher but still can gain a bit from OCing.

The Polish site is the only one I can find with all CPUs overclocked. Sadly they didn't test the same games.. But let's compare their non-oc benches to the all oc benches:
1620386191259.png

I'll compare them here in between to be able to look at both:
You can see that there's barely a change of order. The gains look too minimal from my experience but what you can still see:
The 10900k is above the 11600k. Taking these polish site benchmarks with a little grain of salt, as from what I gathered, they are not completely adding up with all the other benchmarks I looked up, the 10900k or 10850k are the better deal overall!
1620384927477.png



So that what quite a lot...
Here's the Anandtech article about the 11th gen:

1620386676873.png



Final words:
I'm still confused about all the benchmarks.. They all show different results, some show gains for 11600k that would justify me getting one.
Then you see benchmarks where the 10700k and 10900k destroy the 11600k..

It's weird...

You are in the lucky position that you need to buy everything from scratch anyway and both the 11th Inel gen and the Ryzen 5xxx are the last gens on that socket, so the upgrade path ends for you after this purchase.

Overall I'd say you should get a B550+5600x combo. But the AMD boards seems to have some issues sometimes with many USBs plugged in and some games and applications are simply Intel optimized.

If I'd buy from scratch I would probably buy the Ryzen 5600x.
But if you don't want to upgrade your AEGESA and what not, go with the Intels...

From my current overall picture, I would get the 10850k. It's a 10900k that couldn't reach the 5300 MHz from the 10900k specs but they still have the 10 cores and many of them.

Some benchmarks will show the 11600k performing better but.. I don't know.. the latency issues really turn be off.

To be completely honest: I wouldn't buy anything right now :roflmao: :roflmao:

PC parts in the next post...
 
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Noctua:

So the height is the same when you put a 140mm fan on the D15s. But you can also use a 120mm fan to keep the height a bit lower.
You have enough room for any configuration, nice :)

CPUs: (I'm using Mindfactory here, as it's mostly the cheapest and doesn't have one CPU overpriced or anything)
1620387980221.png


Mobos:
(I chose the Tomahawk to keep prices comparable. The z490 gaming x is sadly not available at Mindfactory anymore...)
1620388031248.png



The gaming X boards would be basically the same. At Caseking, B550=149 and Z590=199. The gaming X isn't available.. Probably too good of a board...
But I paid 149€. The M version is 179€ but has fewer USB ports and fewer slots in general, while being more expensive.

Anyway, Z490 and Z590 have 7+1 USB (1x C) and the B550 all sadly only have 6x USB..

Packages to buy:
10600k + Z490
384,79 €​
11600k + Z490
428,50 €​
11600k + Z590
453,50 €​
5600x + B550
468,00 €​
10700k + Z490
484,00 €​
10850k + Z490
551,00 €​

Looking at these, and to be fair I'm only calculating the packages for myself for the first time too...
Then it depends on your use cases!
And there are good, while cheap Z590 boards now, while the Z490 slowly vanish.

Do you want to stay with Intel and only want to simrace:
11600k+Z590, ~450€

Do you want PROVEN single thread performance in games AND applications:
5600x+B500, ~470€

Do you need the additinal 4 cores for modern AAA games or applications that can make use of them, while the absolute last FPS isn't that important for simracing:
10850k + Z590, ~550€
 
Hmmm, there is no simple solution! Including that what i have is functional zo i can just race AC and dabble in acc and rf2 on the monitor until the next gen shows up... That 11th gen sounds latency and mixed reports sounds like gamble for sim racing stutter.

Thanks so much for all the info and the summary! I have to think over it!
 
Hmmm, there is no simple solution! Including that what i have is functional zo i can just race AC and dabble in acc and rf2 on the monitor until the next gen shows up... That 11th gen sounds latency and mixed reports sounds like gamble for sim racing stutter.

Thanks so much for all the info and the summary! I have to think over it!
Indeed.. Mixed bags only at the moment...
After melting my brain by thinking about the 11600k, then thinking about putting the 10850k into my mobo.. Then thinking about just sticking to what I have since I don't even have a VR headset atm and can race and play everything at 60 fps if needed, just not at 90+ fps...

I deciding to put money aside until the next gen drops and then either get a 6600x or 12600k with DDR5 etc.

Good luck thinking about it all :D
 
Indeed.. Mixed bags only at the moment...
After melting my brain by thinking about the 11600k, then thinking about putting the 10850k into my mobo.. Then thinking about just sticking to what I have since I don't even have a VR headset atm and can race and play everything at 60 fps if needed, just not at 90+ fps...

I deciding to put money aside until the next gen drops and then either get a 6600x or 12600k with DDR5 etc.

Good luck thinking about it all :D

Do you think first editions of ddr5 will be reliable and a big jump in performance and also how much and when? :roflmao: :roflmao:
 
Do you think first editions of ddr5 will be reliable and a big jump in performance and also how much and when? :roflmao: :roflmao:
No idea :roflmao:
Reliability: I never heard of issues from early DDR4 modules, apart from being slow.
Performance: there are working DDR5 modules since 2020 with doubles bandwidth afaik, so I guess the performance will be the same or just as good as DDR4
Price: good question... Depends on how the factories will switch from DDR4 to DDR5 and if they can produce enough sticks in general.

Overall I have hopes that the Intel 10 nm production will finally give a big jump in performance. Looking at the 11th gen, which uses a very similar architecture but is just.. too big.. I see a lot of potential!
And Ryzen never dissapointed yet with jumps from gen to gen :D
 
No idea :roflmao:
Reliability: I never heard of issues from early DDR4 modules, apart from being slow.
Performance: there are working DDR5 modules since 2020 with doubles bandwidth afaik, so I guess the performance will be the same or just as good as DDR4
Price: good question... Depends on how the factories will switch from DDR4 to DDR5 and if they can produce enough sticks in general.

Overall I have hopes that the Intel 10 nm production will finally give a big jump in performance. Looking at the 11th gen, which uses a very similar architecture but is just.. too big.. I see a lot of potential!
And Ryzen never dissapointed yet with jumps from gen to gen :D

I'm thinking of just going with the 10850k. 70 euro over the plan B 5600x is worth it for the versatility of more cores.
 
I'm thinking of just going with the 10850k. 70 euro over the plan B 5600x is worth it for the versatility of more cores.
Sounds like a good plan, yep.
The only downside would be that if you're going for vr in acc, the 5600x or 11600k MIGHT have higher fps.
Acc is very borderline at 90 fps for all current cpus....

I'm thinking about doing the Thanos "fine, I'll test it myself", buying the 11600k, benching all my games and then send it back or not..

Can't be that only some polish site tests one simracing game at all, arghs...
 
Sounds like a good plan, yep.
The only downside would be that if you're going for vr in acc, the 5600x or 11600k MIGHT have higher fps.
Acc is very borderline at 90 fps for all current cpus....

I'm thinking about doing the Thanos "fine, I'll test it myself", buying the 11600k, benching all my games and then send it back or not..

Can't be that only some polish site tests one simracing game at all, arghs...

True enough but i've half given up on VR with ACC an d maybe the game in general. I just think I'll never be happy with it unless i stop driving AC for at least 2 weeks and let myself adjust to it. Not going to happen!
 
I'm thinking of just going with the 10850k. 70 euro over the plan B 5600x is worth it for the versatility of more cores.

I run my 5600X (£280) with a B450 MSI motherboard (£80)* & it only needs a 'cheap' after market cooler (£33) to keep it cool = £399 (460€).
2021-05-07_11-15-48.jpg

Obviously, nobody wants to play PC3, but the above benchmark should give some indication of how the respective processors perform with AMS2.

* there are better B450 boards than mine, I'm just a cheapskate.:D
 
I run my 5600X (£280) with a B450 MSI motherboard (£80)* & it only needs a 'cheap' after market cooler (£33) to keep it cool = £399 (460€).
View attachment 472725
Obviously, nobody wants to play PC3, but the above benchmark should give some indication of how the respective processors perform with AMS2.

* there are better B450 boards than mine, I'm just a cheapskate.:D
Nice!
Although I'd say any benchmark with more than 120 fps is pretty irrelevant, since they all are "enough" haha :D
 
I run my 5600X (£280) with a B450 MSI motherboard (£80)* & it only needs a 'cheap' after market cooler (£33) to keep it cool = £399 (460€).
View attachment 472725
Obviously, nobody wants to play PC3, but the above benchmark should give some indication of how the respective processors perform with AMS2.

* there are better B450 boards than mine, I'm just a cheapskate.:D
That's some mighty bang for your buck! It is hard to look past it if you are purely sim racing on the PC. Hopefully i don't regret my decisions!
 
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Do you think first editions of ddr5 will be reliable and a big jump in performance and also how much and when? :roflmao: :roflmao:
Latency on the engineering samples is still very high, but pusing 10,000mhz. In terms of reliability, EEC will/should correct errors on the fly to provide reliability/stablity.

 
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