Button box options

[jamescarruthers]

I’m interested in getting / making a button box.

So, what are people’s favourites?

What do people mostly use? Buttons, rotary switches, toggles?

 

[BillyBobSenna]

I just ordered this little bad boy... Was considering the DSD dashboard panels for either side of the wheel, but it looked flimsy, too much play.
View attachment 382935

I was reading about the Ignition Controls box and the web site has the following note:

"All Advanced PS4/PC compatible controllers are recognized as USB Keyboards -not game controllers!!! Make sure you understand the specifics of Keyboard compatible controllers before purchase!!! "

What does this mean? How is this different than other button boxes?

 

[John Bruno]

I'm not 100% certain of the advantages / disadvantages of it being recognized as a keyboard, I'll post again as soon as it's received and I've had a chance to play with it.

 

[Kieran527]

can you get rotary encoders that return to centre?
So you can select left or right, but then it springs back?

 

[Tom_Hampton]

can you get rotary encoders that return to centre?
So you can select left or right, but then it springs back?

Yes, but its not called an encoder. Its a rotary momentary switch. But, you'd get almost exactly the same effect from a dual position momentary toggle.

 

[Kieran527]

Yes, but its not called an encoder. Its a rotary momentary switch. But, you'd get almost exactly the same effect from a dual position momentary toggle.

But surely a rotary encoder is only truly effective if you have every rotary position mapped to a command?

Half the problem designing a button box is thinking about what you want.
Oh and finding a board that give you the required number of inputs for a sensible price.

 

[Moxley6969]

Not exactly small or compact, But Replica FTW!!

 

[morsify]

I'll just give a shout out for SymProjects, as they don't seem to get mentioned here.

I bought a JC32 joystick controller (around £26) and put it in an aluminium box, drilled holes, fitted switches, connected the wires, and made a 30 switch button box for less then £50.
Basic DIY skills are all you need, no coding necessary, and the website explains how to connect the wires. You need to solder wires to each switch, but no soldering needed on the JC32, the wires can easily be inserted and removed.
And it can also take rotarys (I did have three rotary encoders on there, but I've recently removed a couple of them to put on my DIY dashboard).

I've attached a screenshot of the button box containing the JC32.

It's worth a look at the SymProjects site, I've also got a Prorace display from them which I've put on my DIY dashboard (second screenshot), and they sell other sim racing displays, fan controller etc.

 

[RCHeliguy]

There is no coding required if you use a Derek Speares or Bodnar board.

I got a 64 input Bodar board. They aren't that expensive and just work. You just plug a USB cord in the back of the board and they show up. So far I've not found a sim racing app that doesn't recognize all 64 inputs. If you have rotaries, there is a utility you run to map them because they use 3 inputs.

I'd highly recommend this board.

BBI-64 Button Box Interface : Leo Bodnar Electronics

Leo Bodnar Electronics BBI-64 Button Box Interface - USB buttons, switches and encoders interface board with simple connections. Works on Windows, Mac and Linux. Build your own gaming device - flight panel, button box, music controller, robot controls and anything else that needs interfacing to...

www.leobodnar.com

Rotary Encoders here.

288T232R161A2 CTS Electrocomponents | Sensors, Transducers | DigiKey

Order today, ships today. 288T232R161A2 – Rotary Encoder Mechanical 16 Quadrature (Incremental) Right Angle from CTS Electrocomponents. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.

www.digikey.com

I got a bunch of simple long 2 wire connectors and just cut them to size and soldered them to back of my buttons.

I got a pile of large buttons and switches from Aliexpress and they have all worked well.

This is what I ended up with and so far it has worked great for me.

In terms of finish. I found that leather "look" vinyl works well. I used it directly on the front panels and just used 3M spray adhesive and some padding. Considering this was my first attempt upholstering like this, I was pretty happy with how it came out.

 

[Tom_Hampton]

But surely a rotary encoder is only truly effective if you have every rotary position mapped to a command?

Half the problem designing a button box is thinking about what you want.
Oh and finding a board that give you the required number of inputs for a sensible price.

{{{For the EE's in the audience...yes, I know I'm simplifying things. I've been a EE for going on 30 years.}}}

There are two types of rotary devices:

Rotary encoders
Rotary switches

What gets called an encoder around here is a relative encoder. It sends a sequence of pulses to a controller which indicates which direction the encoder is moving. So, each click says "moved left" or "moved right".

What gets called a Rotary switch, on the other-hand is an absolute device. They have X positions and a digital coding that says the switch is in position Y. These can either be coded as binary (000, 001, 111, etc) where you have a binary number that maps to each switch position, or decoded (00000000, 00000001, 10000000, respectively), where each output maps to a single position, and only one is active at a time.

Finding a board is easy. As noted either DSD or Bodnar options are dead simple to use. Price of either isn't that bad $50-ish USD...especially once you begin to figure all the other costs that go into having a working finished product. You might save $20 with an Arduino solution for a small Button box (16 or so inputs). But, if you aren't good with electronics, matrix switch wiring might cause you a lot more than $20 worth of headache. To get 64 inputs you need an 8x8 matrix...that's a lot of chances to screw things up.

 

[Tom_Hampton]

To elaborate...

Rotary Encoders (like the CTS288) get used for things like volume up/down, brake bias forward/rearward, wing up/down, etc. Things where I just want "more" or "less". I don't care exactly how much I have, only that I want more/less to correct a handling issue.

Rotary Switches get used as selectors....fuel Map A, B, C, D. Selectors like that depend on the sim providing an absolute input control API. Eg, SetFuelMap. If the sim doesn't provide that API, then the switch won't work as desired.

I've only looked at the iRacing control API, because that's all I do. There aren't a ton of absolute control API options in iRacing...most of them are "increase/decrease" type of commands. So, encoders are generally more useful.

For Single encoder you can get the CTS288. With a V suffix (CTS288V) the shaft acts as a push-button...without the V (CTS288), there's no push-button.

Above I also linked a dual-axis encoder from propwashsim. This includes two encoders, an outer ring, and an inner ring...as well as a pushbutton. I use these for front/rear types of controls (swaybars, wings, etc).

 

[RCHeliguy]

FYI, BSEE for about 30 years myself as well. Also well versed in software development for longer than that.

The irony for me is that I still haven't found a good use for a single rotary on my button box. Until I use up the rotaries on my PSE wheel, I don't have a use case. I have 5 x CTX288's sitting in a box unused. The bottom left panel of my button box gets almost no use and was just a placeholder until I had figured out how I was going to use rotaries. Still hasn't happened. I spend most of my time in iRacing as well and a bit in Dirt Rally. Until I become a MUCH better driver I don't see myself making adjustments during a race. But that's just me. It's also why I'm waiting off. When I start to feel like I have a real use case for them, it will be obvious how I need to arrange them.

 

[Tom_Hampton]

FYI, BSEE for about 30 years myself as well. Also well versed in software development for longer than that.

The irony for me is that I still haven't found a good use for a single rotary on my button box. Until I use up the rotaries on my PSE wheel, I don't have a use case.

My wheel doesn't have rotaries. The simple cases are Brake Bias, and sway bars, and wings on some cars. For example, my group has been doing some Sprint Dirt races lately at Eldora....which has an incar adjustable rear-wing. The desired wing balance changes from a full tank of gas to an empty one. Plus, as the track changes over the course of practice/qual/race, so does the wing balance.

I and my regular group all race Spec Miata in real life. I'm not a great driver, but I'm generally just outside the top 10---so, I'm not too shabby. Its really about consistency, not necessarily absolute speed. If you can be consistent 10 laps in a row, then you can sense the difference a balance change makes. Real racing experience definitely changes your perspective on "consistency" and risk/reward---because real crashes hurt (you, your wallet, or both).

 

[RCHeliguy]

I've been mostly racing in the BMW 12.0 fixed with M8 GTE. So far my best place has been 2nd and I regularly finish in the top 10, but my iRating is pretty low so I end up in a bottom bin. I've got a class C license and still haven't tried the Porsche Cup. So far I still like the short races.

 

[Kieran527]

@Tom_Hampton DO the bodner board allow Lights on the push button?
I see you linked an led button, where do you take the supply for the light to stay active whilst the button is active? Is it just a link from your button positive?

 

[Tom_Hampton]

@Tom_Hampton DO the bodner board allow Lights on the push button?
I see you linked an led button, where do you take the supply for the light to stay active whilst the button is active? Is it just a link from your button positive?

The honest truth is, I don't know, and I don't know if I will. The LED in those requires 12VDC supply, not 5VDC available from USB. I drive in VR, so if I hook them up it will strictly be for cosmetics (not to discount cool-factor . I'd have to find or create a 12VDC supply in order to do that.

There are lots of ways to do that. The easiest probably being a USB-A 5VDC-12VDC step-up converter. An example:

Amazon.com: LIYU USB A Male to 12V Car Cigarette Lighter Socket Female Converter for GPS Dashcam and More-Black (0.6m/1.96ft): Home Audio & Theater

Amazon.com: LIYU USB A Male to 12V Car Cigarette Lighter Socket Female Converter for GPS Dashcam and More-Black (0.6m/1.96ft): Home Audio & Theater

www.amazon.com

I just haven't been bothered to pick one.

 

[RCHeliguy]

There are 5V LED's available and if you are using a powered USB hub that is capable of charging than it isn't too hard to pull the current to run LED's.

 

[Kieran527]

Im bringing this back again, after ive continued to look into it.

Do you use latching or momentary toggle?
Ideally id want latching toggles, so you can see if something is on or off.
But do many sims know this?
Ive been told many just use the momentary input.

Its just things like wipes, lights etc, you'd want the switch to stay in the 'on' position.
But unsure if these will work as i want in the sims.

 

[Tom_Hampton]

Im bringing this back again, after ive continued to look into it.

Do you use latching or momentary toggle?
Ideally id want latching toggles, so you can see if something is on or off.
But do many sims know this?
Ive been told many just use the momentary input.

Its just things like wipes, lights etc, you'd want the switch to stay in the 'on' position.
But unsure if these will work as i want in the sims.

It depends on the sim and the specific control. But, most things respond to momentary input, rather than latching inputs. So, you just have to look through the sim documentation to see if whatever you want to control has an "on" and "off" control option, or just a toggle option.