Asetek Forte Pedals a SCAM?

[Leynad777]

I'll have to see if I can get into a GT3 racecar to see what it's brake pedal is like as a fair comparision.
After all most sim racers have no way of comparing their home setup to a real car.

There is pedal-cam footage to compare, and the pedal-travel seems much bigger than the marketing of Asetek is claiming.

 

[RudiPrellbock]

I've got the Invictas and have fitted the softest elastomer and got the long travel adapter as I didn't feel there was enough movement in the brake pedal for my liking.
I have thought about putting in something softer in place of the elastomer to see if I can get more "feel" but that might be due to my comparing the pedal to my road car.
I'll have to see if I can get into a GT3 racecar to see what it's brake pedal is like as a fair comparision.
After all most sim racers have no way of comparing their home setup to a real car.

But do you feel comfortable with the Invicta Brake Pedal? Did you have the chance to compare it to another set of pedals?
The upgrade kit is 350€ and I don‘t know if it‘s worth it.

 

[trichens]

With regards to the video I'll ask a man who knows how the brakes on a GT3 will be set up.
Of course one point that isn't covered in the video is the distance between the brake pivot point and where the brake cylinder piston attaches to the brake pedal.

If we have the brake piston attached around position B there is going to be much more angular movement that if it's at position A for the same amount of piston travel. So that would change the amount of movement we get in our pedals - and in the ones shown in the videos.

I'm happy with my Invicta pedals but I have spent a bit of time and bought the "addons" to customise the way they feel.
I didn't really compare them to anything else as previous set were G29 pedals with TrueBrake addon and a Leo Bodnar cable... which I still have - in the loft!

 

[stigs2cousin]

Well,

about the GT3 brakes there seems to be only one consensus:

there is no consensus.

There are loads of videos of experts on the topic and there is no red line how GT3 pedals are.

So set them up for your style and best performance.

 

[RudiPrellbock]

Thank you all for your replies.
I think that I will invest in some load cell pedals instead of the Invicta Upgrade Kit, so that I can compare these with the Forte Pedals.

 

[Thunderchief2000]

Thank you all for your replies.
I think that I will invest in some load cell pedals instead of the Invicta Upgrade Kit, so that I can compare these with the Forte Pedals.

Hi, I don't have the Forte Pedals, but I do have the Invicta's. (great pedals, but they are very firm and short travel, so your milage may vary, but i love them) The Forte's don't seem to have been explained very well by Aestek. What they have tried to do is get the same type of feel as the Invicta's but without the hydraulics. So a short and quite firm first stage transitioning to a extremely firm (all most no movement at the pedal) second stage.

You may already know this but just in case, you need to adjust the brake so that you reach about 80% breaking when you fully compress the elastomer, (first stage) just as the retainer bottoms out on the body of the brake, then the final modulation comes from the slight deflection in the rubber ring around the retainer flange.(Second Stage) To make this work correctly you have to use the race hub software to adjust your brake curve so that the last 5% or so of real travel is converted to about 20% or so of output to the game.

They really should do a video for this from Asetek. the soft elastomer requires about 50kg to get to the second stage and the hardest 100kg

Hope that helps.

 

[RudiPrellbock]

Hi, I don't have the Forte Pedals, but I do have the Invicta's. (great pedals, but they are very firm and short travel, so your milage may vary, but i love them) The Forte's don't seem to have been explained very well by Aestek. What they have tried to do is get the same type of feel as the Invicta's but without the hydraulics. So a short and quite firm first stage transitioning to a extremely firm (all most no movement at the pedal) second stage.

You may already know this but just in case, you need to adjust the brake so that you reach about 80% breaking when you fully compress the elastomer, (first stage) just as the retainer bottoms out on the body of the brake, then the final modulation comes from the slight deflection in the rubber ring around the retainer flange.(Second Stage) To make this work correctly you have to use the race hub software to adjust your brake curve so that the last 5% or so of real travel is converted to about 20% or so of output to the game.

They really should do a video for this from Asetek. the soft elastomer requires about 50kg to get to the second stage and the hardest 100kg

Hope that helps.

Thank you very much!
Because of the loadcell working like a potentiometer, you can set it up this way without using an elastomer. Just press the pedal till the hard stage touches the cylinder, calibrate it and than put in the elastomer you like.
After all, I still feel like the pedal advertising is misleading. I wish I could try the Invictas, but like I said before, I think I will move on to some „classic“ load cell pedals.
I‘m glad I got the Fortes second hand and didn‘t pay full price for them.
The Fortes are the Pedals I see for sale 2nd hand very often, more often than any other pedals and I wonder if this is because of the strange brake pedal feeling.

 

[Thunderchief2000]

Thank you very much!
Because of the loadcell working like a potentiometer

Hi, I just want to clear this point up, as i have seen this mistake a lot, i think it comes from the Dan Suzuki video on the Forte. (love Dans videos btw, but he is kind of wrong on this point) All load cells work in the same way, by deflecting. This deflection is very small, so all loadcell pedals use a mechanism to allow the pedal to move more. Most use a stack of elastomers and or springs, some (most even?) have some form of "gearing" involved so they can use a lighter loadcell than the force required at the pedal plate, this "gearing" is is done in different ways but the end effect is the same. The Forte peddles are no different, they are just taking it to the extreme by using a very light loadcell and a separate light spring to impart the force.

The problem with the Forte is that the second sage is not "geared" differently from the first stage. so when you calibrate the pedals, most do it incorrectly. (however Asetek do not explain this correctly so how would anyone know?) I think they need to release a video explaining it in detail. Personally and without ever using the pedals, I think the way I would calibrate them would be similar to what you said:

1.Remove the elastomer first. Then calibrate it without by pressing the pedal as hard as you want for the full breaking force.
2. Then you need to use the race hub software to adjust the brake curve so that as the pedal bottoms' out you make it so that is about 80% output. (this is easy to do with the Forte because you can compress them with your hand when the elastomer is removed.)
3. Once done, replace the elastomer with the correct weighted one so that you can bottom it out before you reach the 80% output point. That makes sense in my head, not sure it works in practice. love to know if you or anyone has tried it this way?

Long story short, Asetek need to explain how they actually work and how you calibrate them correctly.

 

[RudiPrellbock]

Hi, I just want to clear this point up, as i have seen this mistake a lot, i think it comes from the Dan Suzuki video on the Forte. (love Dans videos btw, but he is kind of wrong on this point) All load cells work in the same way, by deflecting. This deflection is very small, so all loadcell pedals use a mechanism to allow the pedal to move more. Most use a stack of elastomers and or springs, some (most even?) have some form of "gearing" involved so they can use a lighter loadcell than the force required at the pedal plate, this "gearing" is is done in different ways but the end effect is the same. The Forte peddles are no different, they are just taking it to the extreme by using a very light loadcell and a separate light spring to impart the force.

The problem with the Forte is that the second sage is not "geared" differently from the first stage. so when you calibrate the pedals, most do it incorrectly. (however Asetek do not explain this correctly so how would anyone know?) I think they need to release a video explaining it in detail. Personally and without ever using the pedals, I think the way I would calibrate them would be similar to what you said:

1.Remove the elastomer first. Then calibrate it without by pressing the pedal as hard as you want for the full breaking force.
2. Then you need to use the race hub software to adjust the brake curve so that as the pedal bottoms' out you make it so that is about 80% output. (this is easy to do with the Forte because you can compress them with your hand when the elastomer is removed.)
3. Once done, replace the elastomer with the correct weighted one so that you can bottom it out before you reach the 80% output point. That makes sense in my head, not sure it works in practice. love to know if you or anyone has tried it this way?

Long story short, Asetek need to explain how they actually work and how you calibrate them correctly.

I am happy to test it this weekend and to let you know my results!

 

[RudiPrellbock]

Hi, I just want to clear this point up, as i have seen this mistake a lot, i think it comes from the Dan Suzuki video on the Forte. (love Dans videos btw, but he is kind of wrong on this point) All load cells work in the same way, by deflecting. This deflection is very small, so all loadcell pedals use a mechanism to allow the pedal to move more. Most use a stack of elastomers and or springs, some (most even?) have some form of "gearing" involved so they can use a lighter loadcell than the force required at the pedal plate, this "gearing" is is done in different ways but the end effect is the same. The Forte peddles are no different, they are just taking it to the extreme by using a very light loadcell and a separate light spring to impart the force.

The problem with the Forte is that the second sage is not "geared" differently from the first stage. so when you calibrate the pedals, most do it incorrectly. (however Asetek do not explain this correctly so how would anyone know?) I think they need to release a video explaining it in detail. Personally and without ever using the pedals, I think the way I would calibrate them would be similar to what you said:

1.Remove the elastomer first. Then calibrate it without by pressing the pedal as hard as you want for the full breaking force.
2. Then you need to use the race hub software to adjust the brake curve so that as the pedal bottoms' out you make it so that is about 80% output. (this is easy to do with the Forte because you can compress them with your hand when the elastomer is removed.)
3. Once done, replace the elastomer with the correct weighted one so that you can bottom it out before you reach the 80% output point. That makes sense in my head, not sure it works in practice. love to know if you or anyone has tried it this way?

Long story short, Asetek need to explain how they actually work and how you calibrate them correctly.

One more thing that comes to my mind: How would you setup the racehub software?
Here is a picture from the Asetek website:

As far as I remember you can‘t change the X-axis positions, so it‘s not naturally clear to me how to set it up.
I woule say that the second preset curve is kinds what we want to do.

 

[Thunderchief2000]

One more thing that comes to my mind: How would you setup the racehub software?
Here is a picture from the Asetek website:

As far as I remember you can‘t change the X-axis positions, so it‘s not naturally clear to me how to set it up.
I woule say that the second preset curve is kinds what we want to do.

with the latest version of the race hub software you can move the points freely. so something like this i think. the green arrow would be the point where the second stage starts to activate.

hope that's clear, love to hear your results.

 

[hotak]

It's true that they just measure pedal travel and not force, I think it was clear from any review that came out.
That said, I got them a year ago, coming from the Fanatec Clubsport V3 pedals, and they're more than worth their higher price!
The load cell is very precise, I just tested what you said about the elastomer being slow to go back to its original shape, and after 10s on the pedal at full force, it was immediatly back at 0.1%, and at 0% in about 5s, so its not that bad.
Without editing the brake map it was a bit difficult to adapt to them, I edited mine to make the "third stage" cover last 10% of input, the first one also cover less than 10%, with the second stace having an exponential-like shape, with this config it's perfect to me and both my laptimes and consinstency in braking improved a lot compared to the Fanatec's pedals.

At some point I'll upgrade to Invictas, but I'm already really happy with the Forte.

EDIT:
the stages are like this:
1) you only press the small spring on the loadcell, not the elastomer
2) you are pressing on the elastomer + spring
3) you are at the end of pedal's travel and are pushing against a small plastic ring + elastomer + spring, that probably covers less than 1mm travel, but the load cell can still track it with great accuracy, even if its used as a position sensor