AMD Ryzen For Simracing?

[BrunoBæ]

Hehe just for your entertainment - Im not really asking for advices if I should upgrade here

I run an old 1366 MB originally with a 4 core i7-920 which I have upgraded to a 6 core Xeon x5670.
And my G-card is a GTX 1060 6Gb.
I have slightly downvolted both the CPU and GPU to keep things really cool in the summer comming.

The reason I post is because Im able to run both Raceroom, ACC, pCars2 and LFS with more or less max settings.
Yes Im even able to run them with nVidias DSR downscaling thingy 4x orig resolution and still keeping the fps above 60.

But before you attack me for lying then I think its because I run it on an old 1680x1050 monitor which is not so demanding as the more normal 1920 x 1080 (or higher) resolution.

I admit when I see games on my friends monitors running in 2K or even 4K resolution then it looks great - but when I then hear all the problems they have keeping the fps high enough for smooth gaming then I conclude that I dont really need to upgrade - at the moment.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: Actually I only use DSR when I start the old NR2003/GTP mod up - because the mouse movement in the menus in modern games is a pain in the ass when you run DSR.

 

[Trebormoore84]

Hi there,

Yes, my idea was to soon replace my old 60hz for better ones, 144hz, but I can see it will not be possible. On Some races, I am having like 35-50fps at the start with full grid, and when i look at the GPU usage it shows like 60-70% max, therefore I can see my CPU is not doing the job on iRacing. But as I said, this only applies to iRacing(too old engine). My friend is using a 8700K @ 5hz and he is getting much more frame rates. I will wait for the Ryzens 4xxx. It is not worth change platform for just one application.

Thanks for the feedback guys, really appreciate.

Hi, Sorry to get back late. Yes although with one screen you will rarely get this issue, with triples due to the increase in amount of polygons and graphics that the CPU needs to write instructions for the GPU it is possible to CPU bottleneck on the start line with low FPS numbers. The way projections work with triples is instead of rendering the one screen the computer renders 3 seperate views, but it does this by adding to the single core load as its doing it 3 times instead of just once. However this probably means you are pushing the graphics to max settings without any optimisation at all, you have to optimise the settings to get your preferred minimums and not just expect it to work.

iRacing has a mode called SMP which takes this load off the CPU and puts it on the GPU for the triple screen rendering, you might want to try this first and it does give a decent FPS if you can get the screen arrangement to work. It used to be limited to 160 degree FOV but I think its been updated to work upto 179 now. Look at this as a guide to the settings

Doesn't matter what PC you have you still need to optimise the graphics.

Also you do really need to look at what the CPU is actually doing and not just assuming it is bottlenecking, best to use task manager performance tab to see if it is or not. Obviously if one of the threads is at 100% and GPU is at 70% then likely yes there is a CPU bottleneck.

Lastly a 8700k overclocked to 5ghz will outstrip a Ryzen 3600. Have you made sure to tune the ram and overclocked however to maximise the overhead?

 

[Bob Gnarley]

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[_hagenaar]

thanks for the quick reply!

 

[Case_]

Edit: Nevermind.

 

[Romandevison]

This thread is gold, lots of good advice floating around. I currently run a 2600x with a 2070 and I’m pleased with the performance. VR is great on AC & rFactor2 and ACC on single screen runs a treat on high/ultra settings (still can’t get VR to work very well tho). However, I do keep toying with the idea of upgrading to a 3700x but will I see a noticeable increase in performance?

What's your Nvidia driver?

 

[Giovanni Lazzari]

Hi, Sorry to get back late. Yes although with one screen you will rarely get this issue, with triples due to the increase in amount of polygons and graphics that the CPU needs to write instructions for the GPU it is possible to CPU bottleneck on the start line with low FPS numbers. The way projections work with triples is instead of rendering the one screen the computer renders 3 seperate views, but it does this by adding to the single core load as its doing it 3 times instead of just once. However this probably means you are pushing the graphics to max settings without any optimisation at all, you have to optimise the settings to get your preferred minimums and not just expect it to work.

iRacing has a mode called SMP which takes this load off the CPU and puts it on the GPU for the triple screen rendering, you might want to try this first and it does give a decent FPS if you can get the screen arrangement to work. It used to be limited to 160 degree FOV but I think its been updated to work upto 179 now. Look at this as a guide to the settings

Doesn't matter what PC you have you still need to optimise the graphics.

Also you do really need to look at what the CPU is actually doing and not just assuming it is bottlenecking, best to use task manager performance tab to see if it is or not. Obviously if one of the threads is at 100% and GPU is at 70% then likely yes there is a CPU bottleneck.

Lastly a 8700k overclocked to 5ghz will outstrip a Ryzen 3600. Have you made sure to tune the ram and overclocked however to maximise the overhead?

Hi there,

Thank you very much for taking time and clarifying all this.

I will install MSI Afterburner and get the CPU Usage numbers.
I have also reduced my Memory to CL16 3600mhz, instead of the out of box 4000mhz CL19. I could probably even go lower to CL14, but let me run for a few weeks to see if this is stable now as I was having quite a few BSOD on 4000mhz. They are Patriot Viper Steel.

Will get back to you as soon as I have the numbers.

Regards.

 

[Trebormoore84]

I will install MSI Afterburner and get the CPU Usage numbers.
I have also reduced my Memory to CL16 3600mhz, instead of the out of box 4000mhz CL19. I could probably even go lower to CL14, but let me run for a few weeks to see if this is stable now as I was having quite a few BSOD on 4000mhz. They are Patriot Viper Steel.

No problem optimising for triples can be a nightmare.

Ah ok you were likely braking the infinity fabric frequency with that ram at 4000mhz and losing cpu performance. To check your cpu performance after your changes do a few cinebench r20 runs both multi and single core, make sure to close all non essesntial apps while doing this, for some reason it takes 2 or 3 runs to hit the true performance number. Also use hwinfo to monitor temps. Should be single core 475 and multi 3600 ish stock. 500points single core would be considered a very good overclock for this cpu i think but depends on silicone lottery and your cooling setup. Also make sure you have windows power prfofile set to ryzen high performance.

Overclocking I got my 3600 to 4.2ghz all core but only with 1.4v which is too high a voltage really. Recommendation is to set the voltage no higher than 1.35v for longevity and find the overclock limit. For best results manual overclocking start at 4ghz set voltage to 1.35v and increase by 25mhz per ccx in ryzen master (3600 has 2 ccx, on one chiplet) until you crash. Then drop the mhz by 100mhz for your stable overclock setting. Then repeat for the other ccx. One will likely be higher than the other by between 25 - 50 mhz. It probably wont give you higher performance than using PBO but its worth finding out the chips limit on your setup especially if you have a dud or not.

Perhaps next gen will cope with higher ram frequencies but we don't know yet.

For sure its worth the effort to see the individual threads and gpu usage as it will highlight which is bottlenecking and how many threads are being used. You can then experiment with graphics settings to optimise your framerate, and which settings are bottlenecking your cpu.

 

[Fi22le]

just ordered a parts for a new build pc now waiting for the parts to arrive.....
goal is 1080p triples or vr
I found the dram calulator but how does it work?
Any suggestions for drivers setup and overclock settings?

Specs:
Ryzen 3600X
Gigabyte X570 AORUS ELITE
Red Devil RX5700XT (as a in between solution until new gpu's are released)
Corsair Force MP600 1TB
G.Skill Flare X F4-3200C14D-32GFX

There’s a really good Hardware Unboxed YouTube video on using the Ryzen dram calculator.

I recently built my first Ryzen build with a 3600 and I love it. I run 1080p triples and I don’t think I’ve ever seen more than 50% cpu usage in AMS2.

 

[robt100]

I still cant get any settings in the DRAM calculator to work, instant boot-crash if I adjust anything. But...I am running 4.35ghz all core at 1.28v it was ok, but randomly unstable with 4.4ghz at 1.25v, so did a click both ways for stability. It's gotta last a long time, so wont be going over 1.3v! Also got a 1660ti running at 2025mhz cpu and 7003mts VRam

 

[Case_]

Given that 3600 should boost up to 4.2 GHz with stock settings anyway, I would be surprised if all that effort (and potential risk) actually resulted in any significant real-life performance increase.

 

[robt100]

Given that 3600 should boost up to 4.2 GHz with stock settings anyway, I would be surprised if all that effort (and potential risk) actually resulted in any significant real-life performance increase.

Stock settings fire 1.45v into the thing, so i think im doing it a service

 

[MrBraindown]

What's your Nvidia driver?

I've just updated it to GeForce v445.87

 

[Durge Driven]

Given that 3600 should boost up to 4.2 GHz with stock settings anyway, I would be surprised if all that effort (and potential risk) actually resulted in any significant real-life performance increase.

I run 3900x @1.25v and XMP 3600 C14 100% stable
32C and barely 60c with cpuz stress
Turning apps off just to get better scores is a kids game
Your best tests should have everything loaded ..then some

Now i upset some people lol

P.S. the reason i don't bother with O/C once i had checked stability is i only use 1440p so extra frames are simply wasted ..as long as rF2 has 1:1 physics fps does not interest me

 

[Trebormoore84]

Given that 3600 should boost up to 4.2 GHz with stock settings anyway, I would be surprised if all that effort (and potential risk) actually resulted in any significant real-life performance increase.

Fortune favours the brave Martin. But agree there is a risk damaging the CPU and it's purely an enthusiasts thing. Not recommended generally. Risks are as stated in the AMD disclaimer when you open Ryzen Master, and degrading the CPU over time. If you want guaranteed longevity then no do not risk it.

This is an all core overclock devised by Der8our to maximise the performance when the CPU is going 100%. The way the default boost functions is when more threads are being used the lower the boost clock speed you will get to manage temps. So if you are running a sim and it only uses say 2 threads yeah sure you will probably see absolutely no difference, it might even boost higher. However if its running 6 - 8+ then you will likely see an improvement.

I did a little testing and with this manual OC approach on a 3800x, I'm getting around 5-10fps improvement over Default and PBO configurations in iRacing with triple monitors. Small but worth it in my mind especially for the start line. Please note however I am running custom watercooled system and have a lot of thermal headroom and am happily running 1.4v manual OC 4350mhz on one and 4375mhz on the other CCX at 65 degrees running iracing and all the other programs that I would when racing online.

To add to the controversy I found another 15fps closing all unused processes as well as putting every process running other than the game onto CPU Affinity 0-7 using the Process Lassoo app. iRacing on my machine uses CPU8 for the graphics as its deemed as the fastest thread (and its running at 98% so it's a bottleneck), guaranteeing everything else running is off it. Biggest improvement was forcing Simhub Dash overlay off it. I went from 109FPS on Default Ryzen profile (no overclock), to 135fps with all the above (BTW this was a solo test no other cars at Nurburgring GP at night in the pits). 70% GPU to 89% GPU. Didn't touch the graphics settings at all.

Again all of what i'm saying will probably only be useful when you are using triples and multi projection due to how this seems to bottleneck a CPU hard. Hope someone finds this helpful.

 

[Case_]

Please note however I am running custom watercooled system and have a lot of thermal headroom and am happily running 1.4v manual OC

Well, good luck is all I can say to that. I'm sure you know you are running the CPU at around 0.075 V higher than the voltages generally considered safe for Zen 2 all core OC.

 

[Bob Gnarley]

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[John-Eric Saxén]

I did a little testing and with this manual OC approach on a 3800x, I'm getting around 5-10fps improvement over Default and PBO configurations in iRacing with triple monitors. Small but worth it in my mind especially for the start line. Please note however I am running custom watercooled system and have a lot of thermal headroom and am happily running 1.4v manual OC 4350mhz on one and 4375mhz on the other CCX at 65 degrees running iracing and all the other programs that I would when racing online.

4375 MHz would be around 175 MHz increase over default all core clock for Ryzen 7 3800X if I'm correct? 175 MHz increase from 4200 MHz is a 4% increase. I don't see how that can give you anywhere near 10 extra FPS unless you already run with 200+ FPS, it would violate the laws of physics. IMO and from what I've been reading, overclocking latest gen Ryzen is not worth it in tangibly improving gaming FPS numbers.

 

[Trebormoore84]

4375 MHz would be around 175 MHz increase over default all core clock for Ryzen 7 3800X if I'm correct? 175 MHz increase from 4200 MHz is a 4% increase. I don't see how that can give you anywhere near 10 extra FPS unless you already run with 200+ FPS, it would violate the laws of physics. IMO and from what I've been reading, overclocking latest gen Ryzen is not worth it in tangibly improving gaming FPS numbers.

Ok hands up it was just 5fps. I said 5-10 as it was fluctuating in the game. Jeeez.

1.35v is not safe for a 3rd gen Ryzen 24/7 all core o/c. There is no one-size-fits-all number. 3000 series o/c behaviour should not be compared to anything else, Either Intel or Amd.

Each cpu's max voltage is different and is determined by the FIT module. If you want to know your chips maximum FIT voltage, turn on PBO and max PPT, TDC and EDC and run a worse-case workload. Running above the max FIT voltage has caused degradation issues for some. Please see redit post below.

Thanks for this will investigate. I think I need to investigate undervolting generally as well.

 

[Trebormoore84]

Well, good luck is all I can say to that. I'm sure you know you are running the CPU at around 0.075 V higher than the voltages generally considered safe for Zen 2 all core OC.

Yes knowingly taking the risk Martin.