Alright when was that again.....?

[Richard Wilks]

About the subject of domination.

People who followed other motorsport categories know very welll that this domination is nothing new, and is in fact desirable for Mercedes-Benz.

This is how they ALWAYS operate. They go to a category, they get breaks from the governing body to get an advantage, and then they proceed to outspend everybody, until the destruction of the series itself, or until they themselves move away to destroy another series for whatever reason. Or if they get beaten, which usually prompts them to exit stage left very quickly. Group C, GTs, DTM, Le Mans, indy 500, even F1 in the past, you name it, this was always their MO.


Its not strange for them also to have a clear favorite driver to win the champ, and not allow much intra competition. This is a trait shared with BMW, but it has been very clear in the past, Schlesser, Schneider, Ludwig, to name a few.

Everytime Mercedes and the FIA got in bed together, things ended badly. The BPR and GT1 are a clear example, the category destroyed in two years flat, not by Porsche bringing out an homologation special to sell to costumers as most people think, but by Mercedes and the FIA allowing works teams, driving the costs of racing wild, and handicapping its rivals so that mercedes could steam roll yet another championship, after they destroyed the original DTM/ITC with the exact same formula.

It's no coincidence Wolff has shot down almost every measure to either cut costs, or allow more parity, and won't allow any real intra competition after Nico left.

 

[Nick Hill]

As far as I'm concerned, they need to either find an F1 way of solving the competition issue, or let the sport die. The alternative is going to be "F1 in name only", which isn't going to make anyone in the core fanbase happy.

They have got to find a way to stop the big money teams from wielding their dummy whammy of being able to both build the fastest cars AND squelching any regulatory shake ups that could potentially challenge their ascendancy. Mercedes would rather watch F1 burn to the ground from their #1 perch than agree to anything that might shake up the championship positions. I suspect most teams would act the same in their position, so you have to take away that power.

Some may read this as hypocritical because it won't fit their definition of F1 (I am fine with that), but I think we have to come to terms with the fact that aero has jumped the shark. It's been a fascinating 50+ year ride, but I'm convinced aero has become the anchor tied around the sport's ankle. Downforce producing aero is extremely expensive, not road relevant, it simultaneously makes the cars too easy to drive and very difficult to race, and it curtails innovation in other (more road relevant and exciting) areas of the cars.

Make a spec front/rear wing and cap the max downforce at some arbitrary (relatively low) level. Everything else is open to traditional F1 style competition.

 

[JFRacer]

for me it doesnt make any sense.

 

[Jonathan Young]

Firstly, leave Quali alone please, it's a really exciting format as it is.

As for the changes needed, they're mainly the ones that will be in 2022. IMHO, the primary things that need addressing are:

- reduce aero dependancy and return to simple wings. This allows for nose to tail racing and makes the cars look better

- Implement a drastic budget cap. There's a reason that Mercedes are so far ahead and it's largely down to the wise spending of a much bigger budget than others (although not Ferrari). We have to even the teams and find ways to let the non works teams compete

- and potentially reduce the effectiveness of the brakes if the aero cuts don't get the over-taking we need. Not saying we go back to steel brakes, but maybe less effective, spec brakes would be a good idea to lengthen the braking zones and promote over-taking possibilities

- hopefully all of the above would mean that we could do without the gimmicks like DRS etc.

Perhaps levelling the playing field would mean that Ferrari and Mercedes would be tempted to withdraw from F1, but so be it. I'd rather they'd stay, but the sport needs to be put first.

 

[paracletus]

Kind of cool, a bit like the thing on Clarksons top gear years ago where they battle it out with a daewoo or whatever it was around the track

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Oh just 2 polo’s, a RBR is equal with a MERC?

 

[KircaBey]

I can try the neon Aston One. Give me a few days though.

If you do, I will be incredibly happy. nobody did it. such a work collects incredible votes

 

[gamer19]

great idea
just in the wrong category
it should be in humour

 

[Terry Rock]

Take away DRS.
Get rid of ERS and give the teams fuel to race at 100% of the distance.
Give teams and area to work with in and step back. Let them be creative.
I'm not into 'participation trophies'.
If you want to advance in F1, do it by putting in the hard work or by getting brilliant people to design and build your car.
It can be done....even by small innovative teams.
Look at what Force India was able to do a few years back....while financially strapped.
They were out there fighting near the front of the mid-field.
This idea of handicapping any F1 team because they're fast and reliable is not something I'll ever agree with.
'Raise your game'

 

[Terry Rock]

Apparently formula 1 cars have enough downforce to drive upside down on a ceiling. I think we should introduce loops to circuits.

Have you been talking to Bernie again?

 

[Ronaldoz87]

My idea is to put Verstappen in a Mercedes, next to Hamilton. Let the Ferrari have it's flow sensor cheat back, so they could actually challange the Mercedes.

Or just more Balance of Power. That works with GT3, etc. Maybe F1 will change a lot for that, but at least then it's about drivers and still their teams too.

Oh, and make the cars smaller.
There is also too much external aid to the driver, stop all the engineer talk and the external calculation centers to support the team live.

More driving, less babysitting.

 

[mantasisg]

I liked saloon car race of mercedes at Nurburgring too, when Senna won against Lauda. But I don't see how it could make sense t owork seeemlesly with actual F1.

 

[tonydean2]

Love the idea but sadly it could never happen with the current format. When I first started racing it was not uncommon to find the likes of Jim Clark, Jack Brabham, Graham Hill lining up on the grid in sports and saloon cars F2 etc racing against mere mortals such as I, or should I say showing us how it should be done. For many years this practice continued until in the 80s in the Group C era the sport suffered 2 fatalities in short succession involving F1 drivers in Group C cars. We lost Stephan Belloff and Manfreid Winklehock in quick succession. The F1 teams weren't happy. These drivers had brought substantial amounts of sponsorship into their teams. Contracts were being re-written to ban F1 drivers from racing in other formulae. Eventualy The FIA instigated a ruling that basically bans any current F1 driver from driving anything other than his F1 car during a GP weekend. Plus can you really see the current crop of over payed egotistical drivers actually taking part in something that has the, potential to cause them embarrasement and show that it is about who's got the best car and team. Personnally I'd love to see it. Hell I might even start watching F1 again

 

[paracletus]

It would be good to have one feature race where everyone drives Mercedes for the weekend. Maybe some more sim-racing "all merc day"

 

[tonydean2]

F1 needs a LOT of work, standard engines could work (like moto 2), with the chassis being the only thing the teams bring to the table.

But one thing F1 really needs is a reduction of the reliance on aero grip, I've said it a million times and I'll keep on saying it. since aero grip became so important close racing was impossible, gone are the days of a car following another closly round a corner then with superior skill the driver behind get's a better exit and using that momentum (NOT DRS or KERS gimmicks) get's in the draft, pulls to the inside and brakes later to make the overtake.

I mean in Moto GP Marc Marquez was 11th and EIGHT seconds behind the leader, top 10 LESS than 10 seconds between them all, double that and you got the gap between 1st and 2nd in most F1 races. (although sadly MGP is getting aero )

I agree in principle but the sad fact is they're never going to give up on aero. Not for performance reasons but simply because a rear wing is worth around $10mil a season to a sponsor

 

[tonydean2]

Teams get parts penalty should not be able to take part in qual

Red Bull was famous for it taking some other poor buggers first Q3 appearance then start 15th ..whatever

Over the years we have seen numerous attempts to spice up qualy. The trouble is although they say this version or this version is the fairest for everyone the reality is it always seems to benefit the money teams best. During the 1st turbo era they came up with a 1 lap qualy system. An out lap, a flying lap and a slow down lap back to the pits. They timed it so that as a car started it's flying lap the next was setting of on it's warm up. It was exciting, the spectators weren't spending ages of inaction as teams waited it out to get the best gap to slot into. The problem was the money teams had special qualy engines. The BMW in the Brabhams was reputed to develop 1400+bhp in qualy trim. They would only last 4 laps then bang. They also had super, super soft qualy tyres, again only lasting 4 laps. I doesn't really matter how you format qualy the money teams will fight to ensure that it suits them the most

 

[Damage Inc]

I agree in principle but the sad fact is they're never going to give up on aero. Not for performance reasons but simply because a rear wing is worth around $10mil a season to a sponsor

Ah I don't mean get rid of it completely!! I mean get back to maybe 70's 80's levels, still got wings for sponsors but none of the faffy winglet crap, keep it simple, so that teams with their own wind tunnels don't get a massive advantage. Get back to mechanical grip which brings things back to the drivers as the overtakes would need to be done the old fashioned (i.e. better!) way and not by pressing a button on their wheel.

That and an end to the mercs dominance will be the only things that would make F1 watchable again for me.

 

[joshua zuch]

A couple of idea's

1. Add a traction compound
2. Get rid of both Practice and Quaily together

 

[Daniel R.]

It´s really tough to say what would be great for the future...

What i miss/dislike right now:
Honestly F1 was always about engineering. Finding solutions that mad a car faster. Over time the regulations got tight more and more. Lot´s of cool concepts (Tyrell P34 6 wheeler; Wing Cars; Brabham BT45 sucker car etc....) made it very exciting in the past. But, the teams made all of this cool new ways to get forward fade away by protesting and getting FIA to forbid them.
So in the end the Teams are also responsible for making F1 to what it is right now.
In the end, for a person looking from outside the cars mainly differ in livery, but the rest looks pretty equal. Lots of innovation that makes the car faster is buried deeply inside or just in aerodynamic details that normal people just can´t see.
One of the few moments nowadays where i was a bit excited was the axial-steering-wheel-toe angle-adjustement seen in the Mercs. That was a moment where i thought, yeah that´s dope!!
But again regulated away again by FIA.
So it would be really cool for the overall excitement on the technical side again to open up the regulations a bit and let the manufactiurers progress more aggressively.
Most of the regulations where made for safety. Back then a car got significantly faster frm one season to another wihthout the safety of tracks beeing progressed. See the ground effect cars for example...

Nowadays the tracks are far more safe than back then, so another reason to let the cars be more extreme again.

But with this comes the next problems, BUDGET!!
Developement is super expensive and teams like Mercedes have far better resources than smaller teams. It´s really difficult to match that.
And that was always the way in F1...Budget, Budget, Budget.

If we are honest, it was very often the case in history that different teams were dominating one or multiple seasons. That already started waaaaay back. Just have a look at Lotus in their glorious times, how much innovation they brought in combined with good drivers like Clark or Hill. They also dominated. Or Williams towards the end of the ground effect era or when they had their active suspension running in the early 90´s. Or the Schumacher era....that already was a "boring" time in the end.

So making a conclusion of what to change is really difficult.

What i also miss a lot is character of drivers. Personalities so to say. Like James Hunt, Keke Rosberg...

Today the drivers, except maybe Kimi, are way to polished, guided by publicity departements. Back then there was no person standing behind them, interfering in interviews to tell the drivers what to say and what not....I just can´t identify myself with them anymore...except with Kimi because he seems to be the only one that is "normal".
I really miss the Mansells, the Hunts and all those funny guys...

Then there are the rule changes to make racing closer. restricting aerodynamics to make the cars closer to eachother. If this is needed something fundamental is wrong already, the whole BOP discussion elsewhere. In GT´s it´s good for racing though, action on the track. Just have a look on the GT battles the last years in Le Mans, ELMS etc....was entertaining but would not work with what F1 was originally all about.
Built the fastest car for the fastetst driver and get the championship.

Today the racing in the midfield is much more enjoyable then in front. Luckily, there are still some good battles around today...otherwise i would have lost interest in F1 already totally.

Just my thoughts on it.

Have a good day.
Cheers Dan

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

German news reporting that Nürburgring GP, together with Portimao and Imola might follow on the F1 schedule after Sotchi. Not yet confirmed, but various news outlets feature this report.