A way to obtain information about tire grip in real-time using some racing simulator.

kiiim · Feb 7, 2023

Dear E-racers,

I am looking for a way to obtain information about tire grip in real-time using some racing simulator. Compared to racing with real vehicles that can sense gravity and vibrations, it is difficult to feel the load shift and tire grip in a simulator. I have been sim racing for over half a year, but I still don't fully understand the load shift and tire grip.

Therefore, I want to create an interface that communicates tire status to the user through Sonification or Visualization by obtaining the tire status in some way. It cannot be used officially, but it is thought to give the simulator new added value by helping to understand the grip without using a real vehicle.

To do this, it is necessary to access the internal real-time data of the simulator. Gran Turismo is absolutely impossible. The most likely is Assetto Corsa, which provides an in-game app. I personally like iRacing, so I would be very happy if I could implement it there.

Anyway, I want to access the tire status in real-time using some simulator. Does anyone have any good ideas or information?

BrightCandle · Feb 7, 2023

Assetto Corsa has the best force feedback and introduces a sense of load into the wheel its just something you have to get used to, the information is there in the wheel force feedback you just need to train a feel for it. There is also a G circle app which you can add to at least visually give you a G reference. Some people chase this a lot harder with motion rigs and sliders but they are often the wrong force at the wrong time so can feel quite weird. There just isn't a great way to access this and likely wont be until we can create gravity quickly without a lot of mass (assuming that is even possible) or its going to be very very expensive.

Daniel R. · Feb 7, 2023

Different options in SimHub Software:

Create a dash with the info you need, it's highly configurable and works with most titles on pc.

Use Bass Shakers or Vibration Motors to get a "feel" for what's happening.
I run a little bass shaker on my brake pedal that makes tire slip on front wheels feelable.
Very helpful under braking to feel when the friction limit is close.

Daniel R. · Feb 7, 2023

Daniel R. said:
Different options in SimHub Software:

Create a dash with the info you need, it's highly configurable and works with most titles on pc.

Use Bass Shakers or Vibration Motors to get a "feel" for what's happening.
I run a little bass shaker on my brake pedal that makes tire slip on front wheels feelable.
Very helpful under braking to feel when the friction limit is close.

....of course, its dependent on what is offered in data in the API of the title.

Some titles give more info, some less.

But there is also the ability to have calculations with different signals to finally create the signal you need.

Daniel R. · Feb 7, 2023

I racing is more strict I would say because they don't want to have somebody "cheating" in fixed setup races.

BrunoBæ · Feb 7, 2023

kiiim said:
To do this, it is necessary to access the internal real-time data of the simulator. Gran Turismo is absolutely impossible. The most likely is Assetto Corsa, which provides an in-game app. I personally like iRacing, so I would be very happy if I could implement it there.

While I was an iRacing member years back I made a MoteC app which on the basis of some rather advanced MoteC calculations/functions was able to calculate grip.
The calculation was based of the telemetry output in form of iRacings saved telemetry logger file (IE not fully real-time).
And it can be seen in this example where MoteC is able to calculate the grip for each of 2 x 7 laps run with 2 different setups(Setup1/2)
Note: To the left in the pic the final AVG grip for the two setups is compared (AVG of 2x7 lap).
I hope its obvious that Setup 1 was prefered because of highest grip value(15.07 vs 14.75).

After I aborted my iRacing membership I succeded in transfering this grip calculation facility to rF2.
Because rF2 also has a plugin to output to the real MoteC (did you hear me Reiza?)

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: As a slight victory in a rather hot discussion in the iRacing forum where a lot of people thought grip was impossible to calculate as an objective value - then iRacing officially admitted that they had secretly lowered the grip slightly in the general tire model.
Hehe and to the contrary of almost all others I was the only one who had argumented that something had been changed.

Emery · Feb 7, 2023

kiiim said:
Anyway, I want to access the tire status in real-time using some simulator. Does anyone have any good ideas or information?

rFactor 2's tire contact patch is available by turning on the TGM display. It gives you an on-screen monitor of the shape & temperature of all 4 tires' contact patch.

Hot key is Alt=
or edit the player.json so:
TGM Display="1" // Temporary variable

stigs2cousin · Feb 7, 2023

+1 for the bassshaker aproach

I come from a (hobbiiests) back ground of irl driving and a little drifting and was afraid I´d not be able to drive the car just with visual aids.

Things became way better with triple monitors but that still was judging the cars movements and not feeling grip.

A strong step in the right direction was a DD wheel which can communicate the front wheels quite well.

For that "butt feeling" bassshakers work really well, I use them at the seat for wheel slip and lock in the rear and on the pedal plate in the front additionally to the FFB of the wheel.

It´s alittle tedious to find the right settings, but when its done one ( at least I) can drive by feel, under/oversteer recovery and balancing the car on the grip limits becomes subconcious .

I really recommend it, I even met some people (and read others in the forums) who think this is better for "drive by feel" than motion.

A few hours ago I briefly met a former amateur racer ( checked his credentials on the internet) over a hardware deal, he told me literally that his motion system has made him slower.

MFG Carsten

Deleted member 1066209 · Feb 8, 2023

stigs2cousin said:
A few hours ago I briefly met a former amateur racer ( checked his credentials on the internet) over a hardware deal, he told me literally that his motion system has made him slower.

MFG Carsten

Did he mean that his motion system has made him slower in sim racing, or in real live racing?

Also, I agree with you about the bass shakers. I cannot imagine driving without them. They provide excellent feedback for the condition of the tyres. There is a slight disadvantage, though - you really have to invest some time to dial the settings in for a proper setup. But I still think they are well worth the effort!

stigs2cousin · Feb 8, 2023

In the sim.

He especially mentioned Sebring where the motion introduces an extra level of immersion but also adds physical strain that in the long run makes him slower.

stigs2cousin · Feb 8, 2023

Just did a test run without bassshakers to track down a FPS drop problem, it was almost like driving from a fish tank.
I was amazed how little tyre feel my (DD) wheel was communicating and how much I was missing the wheel slip vibrator.
Yes, you could feel the lessening of grip when the car was understeering, but not the build up leading to the slip.

So never without seat vibrator again

Deleted member 1066209 · Feb 9, 2023

stigs2cousin said:
In the sim.

He especially mentioned Sebring where the motion introduces an extra level of immersion but also adds physical strain that in the long run makes him slower.

Yeah, I can totally imagine that. It certainly is a trade-off, but I think it'll prepare him well for real life racing.

Please Stop This · Feb 9, 2023

Shameless plug for two of my apps for AC:

Has traction circles (off by default) that light up when slipping

g-force and tyre data app

So @PanaRace970 urged me to put this out as mine, this is a fork of the original v1.5 from him. Kudos PanaRace970! Install: Open archive, go one folder down, unpack the two folders "apps"/"content" into your "assettocorsa" folder (usually in...

www.racedepartment.com