rFactor 2 Q3 2022 Update and Content Release! Surprise New Car!

v4v474 · Aug 9, 2022

Bela Valko said:
I didn't say anything about DLC prices. I didn't say that S397 should do any DLC for free. It was not a rant but a comment but you took it personally (you realise you're defending a product sold to you, don't you? it's silly). And now you put words into my mouth to justify your view.
Missing documentation: I was referring to the new sound system (which was introduced months ago) and now the new track limits system and realroad 2.0. Maybe there is more missing, I'm not familiar with car modding.
So I don't have problems with DLCs.
My main problem is that they (S397) I guess consciously avoid fixing/improving anything related to continuosly brought up issues (if you read a few forum threads, youtube comments, etc. you get the idea what are these) instead they make new features that not many customer asked for or even thought about before.
For example I know the AI is not unusable or broken like many think it is. But it has serious deficiencies and problems yet S397 is suspiciously silent about it basically for years now.
The hourly races in CS are ghost towns because of many problems, again people let them know many times what are these problems but they resist to change it.
Other things like offline custom championships, opponent selection in the UI, gearbox system upgrade, etc. It's in the comments. Mostly offline racing related stuff so I think that's why they're low priority.

Now you sound a lot more reasonable, but you fail to identify how "rantish" your earlier post was:

"... So it's probably safe to say that we won't see AI improvements until 2023 and beyond.
...
And they "drop" these new contents every 3 months because that's a business model MSG dictates, no matter the content quality...
...
No documentation provided for modders about any of the new functions because the moddability of the game is not really a concern for the studio, it became a secondary thought by now.
...
rFactor 2 became a cashgrab. "

Do you believe that the above is accurate and not skewed?

And even though you made now more reasonable arguments, you still insist on a tone which is incendiary:

"My main problem is that they (S397) I guess consciously avoid fixing/improving anything related to continuosly brought up issues (if you read a few forum threads, youtube comments, etc. you get the idea what are these) instead"

Who in their right state of mind would consciously keep its software underperforming? To achieve what?

S397 does not have or, better still, did not have in the past, enough resources to simultaneously keep some money flowing - new content - and sorting all structural issues.

Could they have had a different approach once they introduced DX11 and VR in the game and prioritised improving the base?

Perhaps, but if you look at how long S397 took to get the previous UI up and running as "default" and how disastrous it ended up being, to the point of nearly immediately being ditched for a new one (under MSG), you should have enough data to understand why so many nagging things have not been addressed or have been only partially improved (such as the AI, with the recent pit-logic improvements).

If anything, regardless of any non-rFactor 2 related considerations, we should be thankful for all the developments - contents, features, physics - that have been introduced since MSG took over.

It's very simple: for more and better developments, more €€€€ was needed and that came with MSG. And for those developments to continue to come, rFactor 2 needs to keep itself up to date and continue to improve on the GFX and SFX end, on the physics end and, of course, at the usability end (which also has received improvements, such as the improved loading times).

kart1 · Aug 9, 2022

Bela Valko said:
The hourly races in CS are ghost towns because of many problems, again people let them know many times what are these problems but they resist to change it.

Totally wrong, I've done a lot of championships on CS since the beginning so yes season 1 was pretty buggy with disconnections or inability to enter the server it's been fixed for a long time, the only problem is that people don't stay, they are impatient, they look at the number of participants and if it's not enough for them they leave. ..the world attracts the world if everyone stayed and waited there would surely be more people on the CS, if the CS was paying like on IR believe me people would wait and yes when you pay you want to get your money's worth so you don't leave you stay and wait patiently!
so it's not S397's fault if people don't stay on the servers, for the last race "race of the season" 60 did the qualifying hotlap, 30 qualified for the split 1 only (if everyone had come there would have been 2 splits) 20 showed up for the race...fault of S397?
of course they can improve the CS with rating, matchmaking (they will do that it takes time to code) The best time to get people in is between 18:00 and 21:00 CEST generally.

MJQT · Aug 9, 2022

Italotracks said:
That's the fix I'm waiting for, if I get a slow exit and the AI doesn't punish me, or I can pass three brake-tapping AI on the same straight because they don't slipstream each other, then it's not really racing...

This is exactly why the lack of slipstream behaviour in AI matters. Sometimes when I comment about this issue, it can sound like an unnecessary nitpick – but your comment shows exactly why it's not.

Unfortunately, since slipstream behaviour hasn't been present in isiMotor-derived titles all the way back to Sports Car GT, I'm not optimistic S397 will be able to add it to rF2. Maybe a road-course-only fix like AMS1 could work, where AI still don't have separate slipstream behaviour and rarely overtake in a straight line but (if in the same class) usually don't brake-tap in a straight line. Ovals are a bigger challenge again.

Given the recent AI pit logic updates, if 397 adds a slipstreaming fix, works on the oval stuff a bit, and allows the AI to use half-throttle/brake, they'll be back to the outstanding AI rF2 used to have and beyond. And I'll throw money at them and their DLC if they do

Until then, I'm happy occasionally enjoying the base game and mods (mostly hotlapping) and getting my AI fix from AMS1, NR2003, ACC, and GP4

The rF2 AI can be acceptable (and on occasion, great and exciting) but I can get more fun experiences elsewhere more reliably more often with less tweaking. rF2 has the potential to do better (as it has for the last 10 years) but doesn't yet IMO. Hopefully one day.

Rcbill28 · Aug 9, 2022

Same o same o yawn

Mekonrider · Aug 9, 2022

How does the Mini compare to the Pessio garage one in AC? That's a high quality mod.

Bela Valko · Aug 9, 2022

kart1 said:
Totally wrong,

I was talking about the hourly races, that should be the core of everything else.
People leave when they see that there are not enough people? Well, that's the case with every other sim (or game for that matter). They have to do things to attract (or in rF2's case not to scare away) more people so others see more people on the servers so they stay and even more people come... this is how this works.

kart1 · Aug 9, 2022

Bela Valko said:
I was talking about the hourly races, that should be the core of everything else.
People leave when they see that there are not enough people? Well, that's the case with every other sim (or game for that matter). They have to do things to attract (or in rF2's case not to scare away) more people so others see more people on the servers so they stay and even more people come... this is how this works.

it's exactly what I'm saying so not S397's fault it's the players, I just went on AMS2 it's the same thing we were 3 on a server, the multi is dead..
A rating system, licence, categoriypro/am silver/gold, other..or subscription? (which I do not want!) with MSG studio 397 has more staff we can see that it's moving fast and strong, they are working on the rating so we have to be patient, until then we need the players to persist!

Bela Valko · Aug 9, 2022

v4v474 said:
Now you sound a lot more reasonable, but you fail to identify how "rantish" your earlier post was:

"... So it's probably safe to say that we won't see AI improvements until 2023 and beyond.
...
And they "drop" these new contents every 3 months because that's a business model MSG dictates, no matter the content quality...
...
No documentation provided for modders about any of the new functions because the moddability of the game is not really a concern for the studio, it became a secondary thought by now.
...
rFactor 2 became a cashgrab. "

Do you believe that the above is accurate and not skewed?

And even though you made now more reasonable arguments, you still insist on a tone which is incendiary:

"My main problem is that they (S397) I guess consciously avoid fixing/improving anything related to continuosly brought up issues (if you read a few forum threads, youtube comments, etc. you get the idea what are these) instead"

Who in their right state of mind would consciously keep its software underperforming? To achieve what?

S397 does not have or, better still, did not have in the past, enough resources to simultaneously keep some money flowing - new content - and sorting all structural issues.

Could they have had a different approach once they introduced DX11 and VR in the game and prioritised improving the base?

Perhaps, but if you look at how long S397 took to get the previous UI up and running as "default" and how disastrous it ended up being, to the point of nearly immediately being ditched for a new one (under MSG), you should have enough data to understand why so many nagging things have not been addressed or have been only partially improved (such as the AI, with the recent pit-logic improvements).

If anything, regardless of any non-rFactor 2 related considerations, we should be thankful for all the developments - contents, features, physics - that have been introduced since MSG took over.

It's very simple: for more and better developments, more €€€€ was needed and that came with MSG. And for those developments to continue to come, rFactor 2 needs to keep itself up to date and continue to improve on the GFX and SFX end, on the physics end and, of course, at the usability end (which also has received improvements, such as the improved loading times).

So you admit that they lack manpower but at the same time don't like it when I bring up QC issues because of lack of manpower?

They made the new UI for 5 years, I know it wasn't about the UI but the underlying packaging system but still...

And yes I believe they consciously don't fix those problems otherwise they would've fixed by now in the time they introduced new features. When half of the complains is about the AI then they have to know about it (if they read the forums, comments) and consciously not fix it for this long of a time because of something higher order or goal in mind.

Bela Valko · Aug 9, 2022

kart1 said:
it's exactly what I'm saying so not S397's fault it's the players, I just went on AMS2 it's the same thing we were 3 on a server, the multi is dead..
A rating system, licence, categoriypro/am silver/gold, other..or subscription? (which I do not want!) with MSG studio 397 has more staff we can see that it's moving fast and strong, they are working on the rating so we have to be patient, until then we need the players to persist!

So the CS is dead because of the players? Because they're leaving before the race starts.

Hmm that's a new approach to solve problems blame the customer. I think they have a reason for leaving.
Rfactor's main problem is the lack of ratings and the packaging system imo.

With AMS2 the difference is it's younger than rF2, less known, their core audience is South-American, they came out with broken physics (they have been updating their cars) AND they don't have the backing of MSG with Le Mans, Formula E, BTCC and etc. big events. They don't promote their game as heavily, their youtube channel hasn't been updated for 8 months.

Peter Kerényi · Aug 9, 2022

Kenny Paton said:
I don't necessarily disagree with that, but sometimes the continuing angst displayed over a game feels ridiculous.

Angst... it's important to make a distinction between haters (and the equally ridiculous "fanboys") and those who want to see rF2 to succeed and it's painfully obvious what's missing to achieve that and it's painfully obvious how little recognition it gets from the dev team. So "we" either stop caring and lose all interest, or follow the development and in an optimal case respectfully give feedback - in the case of rF2 that comes with a lot of repetition (yay). I know it must be frustrating for the RD staff to deal with the same topics and usually the same people within those topics, but once the critical people lose interest it's bad for the sim (it loses them once and for all) and the comment section will give a very one sided view of the situation.

From my point of view your moderation is needed when people start with personal attacks. When pointing out persistent problems when a major patch is released... not so much.

Bela Valko · Aug 9, 2022

MJQT said:
Unfortunately, since slipstream behaviour hasn't been present in isiMotor-derived titles all the way back to Sports Car GT, I'm not optimistic S397 will be able to add it to rF2. Maybe a road-course-only fix like AMS1 could work, where AI still don't have separate slipstream behaviour and rarely overtake in a straight line but (if in the same class) usually don't brake-tap in a straight line. Ovals are a bigger challenge again.

Marcel Offermans said in a S397 blog post that they have an idea how to fix the AI slipstreaming. This was years ago so they could fix it if they wanted to.

kart1 · Aug 9, 2022

Bela Valko said:
So the CS is dead because of the players? Because they're leaving before the race starts. Hmm that's a new approach to solve problems blame the customer. I think they have a reason for leaving.
Rfactor's main problem is the lack of ratings and the packaging system imo.

With AMS2 the difference is it's younger than rF2, less known, their core audience is South-American, they came out with broken physics (they have been updating their cars) AND they don't have the backing of MSG with Le Mans, Formula E, BTCC and etc. big events. They don't promote their game as heavily, their youtube channel hasn't been updated for 8 months.

lol ok no need to make up arguments you don't like rf2 we get it stop it...
the packaging system hilarious!!

DonaldRacer · Aug 9, 2022

rFactor 2 is king

Bela Valko · Aug 9, 2022

kart1 said:
lol ok no need to make up arguments you don't like rf2 we get it stop it...
the packaging system hilarious!!

Yes, the fact that you need to own every content in the rfmod (that's the package) if you want to join the server. Every car and every track.

henkjansmits · Aug 9, 2022

kart1 said:
Totally wrong, I've done a lot of championships on CS since the beginning so yes season 1 was pretty buggy with disconnections or inability to enter the server it's been fixed for a long time, the only problem is that people don't stay, they are impatient, they look at the number of participants and if it's not enough for them they leave. ..the world attracts the world if everyone stayed and waited there would surely be more people on the CS, if the CS was paying like on IR believe me people would wait and yes when you pay you want to get your money's worth so you don't leave you stay and wait patiently!
so it's not S397's fault if people don't stay on the servers, for the last race "race of the season" 60 did the qualifying hotlap, 30 qualified for the split 1 only (if everyone had come there would have been 2 splits) 20 showed up for the race...fault of S397?
of course they can improve the CS with rating, matchmaking (they will do that it takes time to code) The best time to get people in is between 18:00 and 21:00 CEST generally.

For the benefit of the people thinking of buying Q3 content to race online: My experience is the hourly races have zero or <5 participantion even in "the best time". The few races with large participation, the weekly ones/season i tried to join failed to start 50% of time. The "race of the season" is a series of Q sessions in the CS and its very hard to find out in CS when the actual race is, so little suprise fewer people turned up for that. The LeMans thing had >30 people joining and waiting for a server that didnt come up. This whole CS is allegedly going to be redone/fixed in 2023 until then its semi-functional. At least the track cut improvement is a step up and should be nice for CS.

kart1 · Aug 9, 2022

it's hard to find out, yes in 2022 it's true people don't have the time/desire/genuine brainpower (at your convenience) to go and look on the forum/discord/site when the races are...so hard.

attention I don't deny that some people have problems or bugs with the CS, but personally, but 4 last championship I had only one disconnection on the 24 races!

https://www.studio-397.com/2022/08/announcing-competition-system-season-5/

Kenny Paton · Aug 9, 2022

Peter Kerényi said:
I know it must be frustrating for the RD staff to deal with the same topics and usually the same people within those topics, but once the critical people lose interest it's bad for the sim (it loses them once and for all) and the comment section will give a very one sided view of the situation.

Once again I'm not disagreeing but one of the most often repeated complaints is that discussions regularly get derailed by the same off topics being introduced over and over followed by rebuttals.
As I said previously this leads to exactly what happened here.
Anyone actually interested in the topic has to wade through piles of irrelevant posts.
If someone wants to complain about a game they can start their own thread in that game's forum section.

kart1 · Aug 9, 2022

Sorry Kenny I won't answer anymore even if it's hard...
Getting back to the topic very good update!
The devs are working on the correction for the caterham while I'm having a good time with the superb BTCC!

MJQT · Aug 9, 2022

Bela Valko said:
Yes, the fact that you need to own every content in the rfmod (that's the package) if you want to join the server. Every car and every track.

Here's a thought about this. Since rF2 incrementally only installs what you buy (or subscribe to in the Workshop) you currently need to own all the content. But really, the requirement is that you need to have all the content downloaded to your machine (like is the case in ACC and RaceRoom IIRC). Surely there'd be a way to only allow users to select content they own in the UI BUT have other content downloaded in order to join the server. Anyway, doesn't matter, cause they haven't done it.

Anyway, as per Kenny's wishes, I need to learn to restrain myself from spitballing these ideas in the article comments

So I'll say no more here.

tr1v1um · Aug 9, 2022

Cote Dazur said:
Like you guys, I tried the Caterham, that S397 so generously added for free in the game, plus the game just received, for free, quite an extensive update, since the Caterham, in other titles, is quite an exquisite car to drive and race, I had to give it a spin.
Like you, to be politicly correct, since critic seem to be unwelcomed, let just say that I was not very impressed. Apparently, how this car drives and feel does not match my expectations.
So all the best to those who can enjoy it.

I think it's perfectly fine to criticize content, no matter for wich product. I have no idea how the car without front wheels slipped into the release build but I am sure they will fix it. I am sure they have realized that by now. On that note, I find it hilarious how the guy writes how he tried the car and uninstalled the game after ten minutes with a comment like: I have no idea how people can enjoy that sim. Much drama-queening going on these days?

Every racing sim on the market has cars that are better and cars that are worse. I have a pretty common bug in the afforementioned Asseeto Corsa that leads to my controls not being detected properly on start up. My only option is restarting the game and my drivers. I would be a complete idiot making up my mind about AC based on that one little issue, even if it can get pretty furstrating especialy when you are a bit late to a race. There are tons of cars and tracks within rF2 that offer great driving experiences. The Caterham is brand new so there might be bugs or issues. Do we wanna make a bet how often sim devs have to fix certain cars? Better not.

I for one allways had a straight forward plug'n'play experience within rF2, no matter wich UI iteration, content being used or whatever. And all that with a dirt cheap DFGT.

rFactor 2 Q3 2022 Update and Content Release! Surprise New Car!

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What's needed for simracing in 2024?

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Better graphics/visuals

Advanced physics and handling

More cars and tracks

AI improvements

AI engineering

Cross-platform play

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