RaceDepartment Members Racing A Real Ginetta G40

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I think most of us that have done any form of racing on a console or PC have wondered if we’d be any good at the real thing. Myself and @Mbeet2000 went to find out.

We’d booked ourselves on to an experience day via Ginetta’s track day company want2race. We’d have 3 x 20 minute sessions driving the Ginetta G40 around their Blyton Park test track accompanied by an instructor.

Ginetta G40 Cup​

Engine: 1800cc | Top Speed: 125mph | Weight 840KG | Power: 135BHP

Blyton Park​

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Our day started out with the typical British thing of opening the curtains to find it’s raining, windy and cold...great. Luckily the forecast was for light rain in the morning which was due to stop before we got to Blyton and for once the forecast was right - when we arrived the rain had stopped and the track had dried out.

The only downside to the morning rain was the car was setup for the wet (so softer dampers, roll bars etc) and we would be running on the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tyres instead of slicks.

So how does real life compare to sims? My only real comparison to go on was driving the G40 in AMS2 but that was using slick tyres so in general I was just looking to see what sim racing experience I could apply.

Braking​

Needs to be done in a straight line, and I mean STRAIGHT, initially anyway. In most sims you can still brake hard if you aren’t completely square but in the little Ginetta any hint of steering lock would have the back end dancing around on you. I’m a heavy trail braker in sims but really needed to refine my technique IRL.
This could have been helped a bit with a dry setup and slicks I suppose but I think you would still need to make sure all the hard work was done in a straight line.

For the first 2 sessions I was using heal and toe in the braking zones that required a down shift. This was great for matching the revs, keeping the weight balance stable and carrying speed BUT Katie said I needed to brake harder and more consistently. When blipping the throttle with my heal I was releasing a bit of brake pressure which means the braking zones were longer than needed. I had learnt this technique years ago when playing GT Legends but trying to apply this to a brake pedal that required A LOT of force just wasn’t working. For my 3rd session I tried out the technique Matt had been using, he was braking hard with no heal or toe and just dropped down the gears when the revs felt right. This instantly gave me more confidence on the brakes and improved my times but it did feel a bit alien to me to not rev match on the downshift and I was always waiting for the back to snap. I think with more time in the car and getting a better feel for the brakes I’d be back to heal and toeing but keeping the pressure just right.

Accelerating​

Being rear wheel drive I was expecting to be able to get on the power quickly out of the corners but this would end in the front massively pushing wide. You needed to be very gradual with the throttle after the apex to balance speed vs understeer. I’m usually very smooth on throttle application in sims but this needed extra attention and refinement in real life. Slicks and a dry setup may have helped more here but I’ll never know. I tend to feather the throttle or keep a small application of it on to balance the car but in real life this resulted in the front pushing wide. Coasting turned out to be more effective but I feared the back would brake free and didn’t put enough trust in the car to just grip.

Steering​

By now you are probably starting to spot a bit of a theme, everything I know can be applied to the real world but it needs a lot of refinement – steering inputs are the same. I’m usually smooth with my steering inputs in a sim or karting so I don’t unsettle the car. This helped out massively in the G40 as it made the weight balance more consistent. If you were sawing away at the wheel you’d have a lot of trouble in turn in and accelerating out. The only time I needed to steer quickly was when I’d enter a corner with too much speed then feel the back step out which leads me on to the other part of steering. Having the instinct to save a slide isn’t something you do without practice and the only real practice I’ve had is on sims and some karting. When I entered the second to last turn too quickly the car stepped out just at the apex and could have easily gone round on me but everything seemed to happen in slow motion and my arms and legs just went in to autopilot as I wrestled to keep the car going the right way. You can see this on my fastest lap video below around 1:08

Weight Balance​

I know if you search anywhere for real life or sim racing tips that this comes up a lot and there is a good reason it does – it's crucial. All day long I had been struggling with the 2nd to last corner and it was because I could never get the weight to centre up before smashing the brakes after the fast chicane that leads up to the corner, you can see this on my fastest lap video at 1:06. The red dot that indicates where the weight is heading is left of centre. A small shift in weight balance makes a huge difference to what the car does. You need to make sure you have it nice and square for the braking zone, progressively load it up during turn in and progressively lose the load on exit. This is all stuff I do in sims week in week out but adapting to this in real life when you are hitting the brakes at 90mph is an eye opener!

Sensory overload​

One thing we found is how difficult it is to process the extra information you are getting compared to sim racing. Generally when racing with a wheel on the PC you are getting feedback from the wheel, what you are seeing on screen and the sounds you are hearing. In the real thing you are also being assaulted by g forces. These obviously help you feel what the car is doing more than on a sim but it's something else to get used to and learn to process.

Becoming a real life racer​

Could I become a real life racing driver and use my sim experience as a base? Absolutely, look at the success that Jimmy Broadbent and James Baldwin have had but there are 3 main factors that mean I will never be able to do it:
  • Money – You need a serious amount of money or proper backing to be able to do this sort of thing. It’s probably doable in the lower categories but even then you’d be looking at bill after bill for repairs, rebuilding engines, tyres etc. Hats off to anyone that is doing it right now, your dedication is amazing!
  • The Fear Factor – On a sim you can push to the limit knowing that if you go over it and end up in a barrier you just ESC back to the pits and try again – that isn’t a thing in real life. I found that there was always a niggling feeling in the back of my head that stopped me pushing harder through fear of having an accident and getting a bill for repairs. This would be eased if I won the lottery and money wasn’t a problem but there would still always be a hesitation there and that’s because of my next point:
  • Dedication - I’m in my 30s now and have a family. Motorsport is dangerous, if it wasn’t it would be boring. However, being a family man means I can’t be out there risking a big accident or be away from my family for days as I travel up and down the country. If my kids were older and I had the money then it wouldn’t be as bad I suppose.
I have taken away from the experience a sense of relief, satisfaction and I've been humbled. For years I’ve always thought I’d missed my opportunity to be a racing driver and it bugged me but it turns out I don’t want to be one. Matt and I both agree that we massively enjoyed our day with Ginetta and it was great to see we have the core skills there to be quick but we get just as much enjoyment if not more from racing online or karting with friends that we don’t need to be out there dedicating our lives to being on track. It's also been an eye opener on just how hard it is to drive a car fast and I will never again be an armchair critic of anyone on track that seems a lot slower or at the back - reality is they are probably pushing it as hard as I ever could.

I enjoy being able to race with people from all over the world from my own home and push the car to the limit on the PC safe in the knowledge that if I have a bad race and a huge crash I won’t need to re-mortgage the house to get back out there!

My Fastest Lap​

(sorry about the audio quality, filmed using the onboard vbox system which was set to -45db audio level - useful!)

A comparison of mine and Matt's best laps​


Do you have any real life racing ambitions? Ever raced a real car on a racing circuit yourself? Let us know in the comments below.
About author
SwannyUK
I've been sim racing for around 16 years starting off with titles like Live for Speed and Rfactor then settling on GT Legends for a few years. Now I mainly race on ACC and AMS2

I won a few mini league championships over at GamersCrib (shout out to anyone who remembers that!) and was proud to win the ACCSS 24 hours of Spa 2021 with Team RD.

I run the RD ACC Club, feel free to contact me with any questions :)

Comments

Great read! I recently did my first trackday with my own car, and luckily the car and track combo is available on pCARS2 so I could practice it a lot before heading to the track and like many have said so far, track knowledge is possibly the most important benefit from sims in my opinion. Watching videos on youtube can help but it's different when you are doing it yourself.

Driving-wise, things like counter-steering and looking where you're going can also be something that we can practice in sims and will not slap us in the face when it suddenly happens on track.

These Ginettas had some "semi-sport" tyres, and possibly had some higher performance brake pads. The biggest different I noticed on my trackday, as I was using my car as stock, was how quickly the braking efficiency dropped after a few laps due to the heavy braking at the end of the straights. That was the most shocking wake-up call, which meant that by keeping the same braking point for a certain corner, I went wide and slightly into the gravel :D Of course, simracing games have simulated brakepads for the expected performance, therefore this was something new. Same with the tyres, when they were quite warm and worked some corners, they started to feel a bit like "jelly", they were still predictable overall through a whole corner, but would be "wiggling" through it - which I guess would be less pronounced or not happening at all with trackday tyres or race tyres.

It was a great experience though and I will go back next month :) it also showed me the commitment needed to be a racecar driver, and like you I realised that I actually do not want to do it, but enjoy very much the simracing at home as it gives plenty satisfaction. And at the end of the day, we all have different wallets and different wishes :)
 
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Great stuff Daniel. I found the same as you regarding the tyres. We used the same set all day and towards the end of my 2nd and 3rd sessions you could tell the grip was starting to fall away. On my fastest lap video half way through the lap you can see on the double apex long left hander that I don't make the 2nd apex. Carried in the same speed as previously but the fronts we're starting to give up. The brakes seemed solid throughout, as you say probably sport / race brakes.
 
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I drove a Clio Cup car about 2 years ago, fantastic experience. It was the kind of race car that I could have driven all day long. I was blown away by the ability of the car to not understeer despite putting the power down hard in the middle of a corner.
 
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Under 10k (say 700 a month) is still an amount of money most people can't miss while having a family and monthly growing expenses.
oh absolutely!! im just pointing out the real costs, ive seen some videos on YouTube on "how to be a racing driver" quoting figures 50k + just to start which is just garbage and eliteist.. really annoys me. obviously im into sim racing thats why im here, when im instructing in real life its clear to see who the sim racers are, there lines and where they place the car is much much better than joe public
 
A few thoughts from a track day regular. I've done more than I can count in my Caterham (mostly in England/Wales but a couple of trips to the 'Ring and tracks in France) which means the experience is a bit different to @Daniel Monteiro's as although mine is a road car it's set up for track work too so brake fade is something I've never been troubled by (though I have been caught out a few times by a long pedal when leaving at the end of the day). I've never been able to relate the experience of the car I drive in real life to any Caterham I've driven in a sim. It's much more physical which means it's more tiring (I am usually out for about 20 minutes at a time and come in to give both myself and the car a rest) but also you get so much more feedback which seems to make it easier to drive in real life.. I rarely experience the "Fear Factor", just a couple of times I've thought "Ooh, if I were to go off here I would end up in hospital" like Folembray in France (still from a friend's video) where there was a strip of grass and then trees when braking from 100+ for the chicane
FolembrayDaniel.jpg



but the rest of the time I'm just focused on driving the car. Even when sliding across wet grass at Goodwood towards an earth bank I was concentrating on trying to control the car and not scared (the car stopped literally inches from the bank after I'd managed to turn the car side on - definitely a case where hours of sim racing experience paid off!)

I've also had the "pleasure" of being passenger in his race Caterham driven by a one-time champion and from that I learnt some important differences between "the fastest on a track day" and racing. My car has over 200 BHP and is usually one of the fastest on track but his with maybe 120 BHP is able to keep up round a typical lap, apart from the fact that he's a better driver that's because he's absolutely brutal with his car (the gearbox in particular) whereas I always have some thought that I need to drive mine back home afterwards - though that hasn't always happened! That's where I may be wrong to say it's easier to drive the car in real life than in the sim - it's easier but I'm driving a few seconds off the pace.

MissingWingRedacted.jpg

I was able to drive home after that :cool:

GafferTapingTheRearLightRedacted.jpg
 
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Now you're qualified to make an honest comparison between the real thing and PCars2/AMS2. Come on, everybody's waiting for it.
 
I'm glad you got to see why trail-braking isn't something you do all the time. I have significant track experience from my time in SCCA in the late 80's, and I immediately noticed that, in AC in particular, it does a terrible job of simulating weight transfer (or maybe rear suspensions), leading to excessive use of trail-braking because all the cars are far too stable under braking, or when suddenly lifting the throttle.

I'm not an engineer, but I can tell you that cars generally do react (rather badly) to lifting the throttle at the limit of adhesion. In AC - they generally don't. Even the Yellowbird is ridiculously stable under braking. If you drove a real car the way AC wants you to drive, you'd have a lot of big moments on corner entry, and a lot of spins, before you finally figured that merely gently lifting the throttle can rotate a car just fine. You don't need (or want) to trail-brake constantly.
 
I'm glad you got to see why trail-braking isn't something you do all the time. I have significant track experience from my time in SCCA in the late 80's, and I immediately noticed that, in AC in particular, it does a terrible job of simulating weight transfer (or maybe rear suspensions), leading to excessive use of trail-braking because all the cars are far too stable under braking, or when suddenly lifting the throttle.

I'm not an engineer, but I can tell you that cars generally do react (rather badly) to lifting the throttle at the limit of adhesion. In AC - they generally don't. Even the Yellowbird is ridiculously stable under braking. If you drove a real car the way AC wants you to drive, you'd have a lot of big moments on corner entry, and a lot of spins, before you finally figured that merely gently lifting the throttle can rotate a car just fine. You don't need (or want) to trail-brake constantly.
Which game, in your opinion, does weight transfer better?
 
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I'm only doing time attack in the real world but it is so worth it. It is a damned expensive thing to get into though. I'm breaking things constantly and it's costing me more money than I would like to admit.

The weird thing is I don't get the fear really in my own car, even when I push past the limit. Riding with others however is a strange adrenaline rush, just knowing they could mess up and send us into a wall.

What I would give to do some wheel to wheel racing. Maybe someday.

Edit: I forgot to mention how fascinating it is finding the limit of different tires. It's easy to push too far once you start getting comfortable. Finding that sweet spot is addicting. I also find it much easier in real life to find that limit than in a sim.
 
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I'm only doing time attack in the real world but it is so worth it. It is a damned expensive thing to get into though. I'm breaking things constantly and it's costing me more money than I would like to admit.

The weird thing is I don't get the fear really in my own car, even when I push past the limit. Riding with others however is a strange adrenaline rush, just knowing they could mess up and send us into a wall.

What I would give to do some wheel to wheel racing. Maybe someday.

Edit: I forgot to mention how fascinating it is finding the limit of different tires. It's easy to push too far once you start getting comfortable. Finding that sweet spot is addicting. I also find it much easier in real life to find that limit than in a sim.
what did you drive? I love the idea of Time Attack driving, but mostly building of the race car with hardly any reglementations (especially that scandinavian Gatebil Extreme class which allows stuff like Group-C derivatives or scratch tube frame builds).

In terms of how cheap can you go wheel to wheel racing, I still love this YT series:
in relation to sim racing, you always had the closest races in the most underpowered cars, like the XRG/XFR or UF1 in LFS.
 
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what did you drive? I love the idea of Time Attack driving, but mostly building of the race car with hardly any reglementations (especially that scandinavian Gatebil Extreme class which allows stuff like Group-C derivatives or scratch tube frame builds).

In terms of how cheap can you go wheel to wheel racing, I still love this YT series:
in relation to sim racing, you always had the closest races in the most underpowered cars, like the XRG/XFR or UF1 in LFS.
So I am doing the local time attack series in my 2012 WRX STI Hatchback. It has really impressed me while simultaneously hurting my Wallet.

This is my first year doing the competition. The first non practice event was last Saturday and I finished 2nd place in my class. Barely .5 seconds off 1st place. The sim racing has definitely helped some but it is a different animal throwing a car around a track at speed..

Kind of how sim racing is an addiction the real thing is even worse .

To be honest if I hadn't bought the STI for my reasons and I had the foresight that I was going to start doing time attack, I would have bought a different car. The STI is really incredible on track and impresses me and improves my driving every time I go on track but damn do the repair costs hurt. If I didn't work on my own vehicles I absolutely could not afford to do this.

Just for fun:
I have already cracked an intercooler this season, and it was the stock top mount intercooler. I now run an ETS top mount.

I've already gone through one set of tires and trust me, buy track tires if you're going to do it. The jump from nice summer tires to proper semi slicks made me about 3 seconds faster per lap on average.

All in ignoring the purchase price of the car. I've already spent ~3500 USD in prep, repairs and maintenance.


If you have any questions I'm glad to answer. I am really grateful to be living one of my dreams. Maybe someday I can do some spec wheel to wheel.
 
Which game, in your opinion, does weight transfer better?
AMS1, rF2, R3E. Probably iRacing too, but I keep letting my membership lapse, and my memories are fading.

AMS1 is definitely the best. I can drive a car there the way I do IRL with very little need to "drive the sim". I recommend the new CMH Group 5 mod (http://classicmotorsporthub.org/releases/gtg5/) or the M1 Procar mod that's here on RD. Anything by Richard Wilks. If you can drive those cars, you can probably drive IRL, and the methods transfer over well to real life.

rF2 is second, though the mods vary in quality ( I recommend the Celica GTO as a good car to train with). Thing is, rF2 wants you to slide the car around a lot. I wouldn't try that IRL. You'll end up with greasy slick overheated tires by your 3rd lap. But everything else is great.

R3E is OK, although some of the older cars (the Group A's) seem to resist rotation and thus require a lot of trail-braking to hustle them around. The rear ends seem to be more stable than what I'm used to, but I like how it really punishes you for using too much power oversteer (loss of grip is appropriately sudden). I probably need to go back and try it again to give you a real opinion, but my memory says it was OK (way better than AC for sure).

Also, surprisingly, I will throw in Gran Turismo 7 (don't laugh). It does a great job of encouraging you to be smooth, brake in a straight line, and use trail-braking judiciously (especially with older cars that have no downforce or ABS). I can tell you the S2000 in that game drives *exactly* like mine did IRL: Never Lift.

Like I said, just about every car in AC is too stable under braking and very few react properly to lifting the throttle suddenly. It almost feels like stability control at times. I do love AC for drifting, even though it's a little too forgiving in terms of allowed slip angles. It's my go-to drifting sim because it does a nice job with power oversteer and especially with the technique needed to exit a drift. If you can drift well in AC, you can do it IRL, so that's one great thing about it.
 
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If you have any questions I'm glad to answer. I am really grateful to be living one of my dreams. Maybe someday I can do some spec wheel to wheel.
nah its all dreams and ideas, nothing more really. Local regulations are too different anyway, like if you'd want to daily a track car in Germany you like have to buy a "track day special" like a 911 GT3 as our TÜV makes it really hard to get any modification road legal. Been to a "run anything" track day recently (just spectating) and every last car came on a trailer :O_o: So to run a track car you need a daily and a trailer too, plus ofc the space for all those (neither of which I have).
 
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I'm lucky enough to live in a little village nestled in the countryside and I have to drive down a winding mountain road to get to work, and sometimes, when I'm driving alone with no cars in sight, I push my lovely Abarth 595 a little more than usual... and my racing ambitions stop immediately with the first timid slip of the wheels... :unsure:


By the way, sim racing can be too a very dangerous sport; imagine for a moment that your wife discovers the REAL cost of your simulation platform ecosystem... :cautious:
 
Premium
nah its all dreams and ideas, nothing more really. Local regulations are too different anyway, like if you'd want to daily a track car in Germany you like have to buy a "track day special" like a 911 GT3 as our TÜV makes it really hard to get any modification road legal. Been to a "run anything" track day recently (just spectating) and every last car came on a trailer :O_o: So to run a track car you need a daily and a trailer too, plus ofc the space for all those (neither of which I have).
Yeah. To be frank, I do 'daily' the STI, although I have other vehicles as well that get similar levels of use. As it gets closer and closer to being a track car it looses more of the road manners it had in factory setup. At some point I will be picking up a trailer and may pick up something a bit simpler to turn into a full blown track car, and use the STI as a normal car.

There's no way around it any sort of track driving isn't cheap.
 

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