Are You Interested in Motorcycle Racing Games/Sims?

Pepper606 said:

Ride 4 had a good start in terms of physics. But the AI couldn't cope. Fix the AI? Nooooo! Nerf the only good bit of the game is easier!

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When did that happen? I'd like to compare the versions by employing my somewhat relaxed morals.

So far the AI is spanking me like quite roundly, though tbh I fail most races for reasons other than my speed.

I like bike games and am a heathen who enjoyed them even on PS Vita—in fact, MotoGP 14 was the best racing game on that platform. Bit of a difficulty that bike games can only be played in the third-person camera because otherwise the player won't know what's happening with the rear wheel—but oh well.

I want a game that has both track mods and AI. I want oval tracks, because ovals really teach quite a bit about the setup—less pronounced with bikes due to not having left/right wheels, but anyway. I want to go around for twenty minutes and set up an overtake for three laps, instead of having just two laps total like in ‘Valentino Rossi’, dangit.

If I could slap together a bike like in this vid, that would be excellent:

I just installed a bike game that has ovals, Can't remember the name of it but it was mentioned in a thread a couple days back. Been playing it with a PS2 emulator on a handheld.

Tried it around Laguna Seca, Crashed 62 times and never made it to the end of the lap. Great stuff as I have been riding bikes pretty much daily for 40 years...

THK84 said:

That has been the case for a lot of tech I've looked into at one point or another. Especially the last 2 years. Some of which I now currently poses. So what's you're point?

Even if it's dead, it's still interesting, just like the other one I posted with the site no longer being up.

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We're not talking about 2 years here, we're talking about almost 5. That's my point. They've been out of stock since well before covid affected the supply chain.

It's not an option even if someone is interested.

Metla said:

Can't remember the name of it but it was mentioned in a thread a couple days back. Been playing it with a PS2 emulator on a handheld.

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Might be ‘Tourist Trophy’. It's pretty much Gran Turismo 4 reused with bikes, so it inherited the Twin Motegi oval and the less-useful Test Course and Beginner's Course.

Alas, I had no luck making PCSX2 work at decent performance, over multiple attempts with several machines. Even though none of these were beefy gaming machines, it's still quite perplexing—since iirc PCSX2 was already popular ten years ago, while my hardware is rather more recent. Idk how you make it work on a handheld—must be a Steamdeck or something like that. I'd play quite a number of PS2 games if I managed to run them at proper speed.

P.S. Bikes at Citta di Aria must feel scary and frustrating.

That's the one, Tourist Trophy.

Yeah, Its a steamdeck, loaded a preconfigured set of apps called emudeck. The game doesn't run perfect, but is perfectly playable. (also got Gran Turismo 4).

I was also using my Series X to run PS2 games on the big screen, worked a charm.

Returning to the topic of the thread, the game that really should support bikes with good physics is BeamNG. I didn't dig into it and might be mistaken, but vaguely heard that the game is tailored to four-wheel vehicles, so bikes have the same problems in it as in other car sims.

Unlike cars, bikes' performance is very much affected by the rider's posture and centre of gravity which can't be achieved easily in simulation without a sophisticated rig or a controller with many axles. That's why there aren't' many truly bike "simulator" out there.

I mean, afaik karts are also affected both by crouching behind the wheel and by leaning to the sides to flex the chassis. However people still play karts with just the wheel and the pedals. I also don't see simmers say that all race sims are child's play due to not feeling acceleration with their bodies and the suspension with their butts.

aasasd said:

I mean, afaik karts are also affected both by crouching behind the wheel and by leaning to the sides to flex the chassis. However people still play karts with just the wheel and the pedals. I also don't see simmers say that all race sims are child's play due to not feeling acceleration with their bodies and the suspension with their butts.

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Well, not really, you steer a car with a wheel and a kart is the same, you can transfer your weight to help maintain balance in smaller vehicles* but bikes are a different thing altogether, you steer a bike not with the handlebars but with your weight, so knowing exactly what's happening is imperative (IRL)
I'm not saying that you can't use a bike game/sim with a wheel and pedals, its that if you've ridden a bike and want as near you can in a bike game/sim then usually a controller or wheel and pedals set doesn't get you that close.
I'm not judging, some folks like to use a controller from wingman position, it's about what does it for you

* back when safety wasn't mandatory you could see a Lotus 6 with a driver hanging out of the side

I have to put my two pence worth in here...

Firstly, i've been riding motorcycles irl since i was around 8yrs old; I'm now in my 'mid life' - that's all i'll say on that matter...

Anyway, i've been riding all my life and had a multitude of different motorcycles; I've had/rode MX bikes, cruisers and of course superbikes. In fact, just in 2019 i just sold my beautiful Ducati 998 - I had to as i broke my leg (not motorcycle related) and because of it, i just couldn't ride the bike anymore, it was too painful (at the time).

I digress...

So, in relation to the subject matter...
It is and as far as i can see, not possible to recreate the feeling of riding a bike in the virtual sense...it's just not possible.
As someone else stated, unless there's some miracle of genius that creates a controller which translates all the little nuances of movement when riding a real motorcycle, forget it.
So when you're talking about 'simulation', it can probably simulate the physics somewhat and setup procedures etc but, that's as far as it goes for realism.

Additionally...(just hear me out here)...

In TT Superbikes on the PS2, that game did something that even to this very day i haven't witnessed since...
When in TT Superbikes and you'd lean over (dependant on angle also), it replicated the increase in revs as the bike leaned over; the further you leaned the more revs also built up.
This happens irl all the time in racing as the tyres have less contact patch and also due to the diameter becomes less (you can research this yourself as to why it does this).

Anyway, TT Superbikes has been the only game/sim that reproduced that effect and not a single developer has replicated it since...that alone amazes me!.
It could be that it simply isn't implemented because A: The developers don't really need to do it and B: The developers are mostly car drivers and have never ridden a motorcycle let alone raced one at speed...:/

What also annoys me (and it does)...
I can understand the devs trying to replicate the camera angles/options, but i think they do this just for something of an addition than actual purpose.
Now, in some regard i'm being hypocritical of myself as to a certain extent, the camera views/options are 'near' to real life, but crucially and more importantly, no matter how many views there are, none will translate to you being on an actual bike and feel the way a bike moves.
One gets used to the camera/view they opt for obviously...but that's just it, you get used to that view as with the 4 wheeled type too.

However, in bike racing games/sims, these extra camera views just serve as an optional extra in my opinion and don't serve any purpose other than that; sitting at a rig or desk with a wheel is far more 'life-like' to a real car than having a controller in your hands trying to replicate a bike!.

Lastly...

As a long time IOM TT lover, the games that were developed were good in the sense of the actual course itself; the physics however weren't what i'd call 'good'.
Now with TT Ride on the Edge 3 on the horizon in May, i'm having concerns over the physics and camera views...
I'm okay with the RiMS Racing physics to a certain degree (at least they're better than what the first 2 iterations of the game were), but i'm also concerned with the onboard camera views.

If they're like they are in RiMS then there's going to be a huge problem for me personally. However, if they use the camera views from Ride on the Edge 2, i think it'll be acceptable.

Only time will tell.

aasasd said:

When did that happen? I'd like to compare the versions by employing my somewhat relaxed morals.

So far the AI is spanking me like quite roundly, though tbh I fail most races for reasons other than my speed.

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Very shortly after release. The AI constantly crashed, it was unplayable.
Instead of fixing the AI they massively increased grip to stop the AI sliding. Then a huge invisible weight was put on the handlebars. That's why the bikes behave as they do.
This was all documented at the time. It's not a secret.

The original physics for Ride 4 was fun! You could actually spin the rear wheel around corners. It took skill to ride fast!
But it was nerfed into the poor product is today.

Pepper606 said:

huge invisible weight was put on the handlebars

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Is that why in Ride 4 bikes feel radically heavier than in all other games? I heard varying opinions on the physics: right in this thread someone said they like Ride 4 the most; elsewhere people were saying that it's harder to control than real-life bikes (likely exaggerating, of course).

I'd really like to read or watch about that physics change, but have no idea where I could look for that info. Was the physics previously close to Ride 3/MotoGP/etc.? (Doubt it that they would reinvent the AI if the physics were the same, though, so I'd guess something already differed.)

P.S. Well whaddayaknow, an upload from the original release day is available on the high seas.

I'd look at the Steam forums 1st, a lot was posted there. From there the dates could be used for the facebook comments.
If you're happy with solo hot lapping then the original physics is best.

I play MotoGP and Ride 3 with my TM TX and x360ce. It really adds to the experience. And somehow, some FFB effects are transmitted and actually make it feel more immersive. To the point where I prefer the 1st person view. Worth a try if you have a wheel where its easy to change the rotation since it requires less than 360 degs of rotation.

I basically only play MX bikes and GP Bikes nowadays. Way too much fun!

Extremely interested, I just wanted a AC for bikes so bad...But I enjoy playing MotoGp with a gyroscope controller, a lot actually, as the sport is the best one in my opinion. Also after they improved first person view it became a proper blast to ride.

rup.car said:

Also after they improved first person view

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Which version/year do you mean here?

THK84 said:

View attachment 635759

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Lastest force feedback feature, it can give you a high side crash, in case you lose control

Huh, afaik so far direct-drive wheels were the first and perhaps only devices allowing one to deliver injury over multiplayer—if one sets up the crash just right.