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The T500RS Thread

Discussion in 'RaceRoom Racing Experience' started by Zzyzx, Apr 9, 2014.

  1. Hi folks,
    Thought I would take another stab at this game tonight. Downloaded it over a year ago but didn't really get into it. Anyway as there is no thread dedicated to the T500RS I thought I would make one. :cool: Feel free to share your experiences of RRRE with this wheel in here.

    Just been fiddling with the FFB and I see the original values in the game were badly suited for it. I couldn't originally feel anything!

    So my main point in posting: does anyone know the purpose of each of the FFB settings? It's not exactly clear. They are as follows:

    FFB Strength - I assume this is simply the overall strength
    FFB Steering Force - ???
    FFB Steering Grip Weight - ???
    Steering Weight Force - ???
    FFB Curb Effects - I assume how much you can feel the curbs
    FFB Curb Pull - ???

    Also they seem to be using a default rotation of around 560 degrees. Would that be correct? I measured this by using the 'Test Zone' in the control options screen and spinning my wheel around. I believe that's roughly equivalent to most GT cars (although I normally use 540). No matter what I change it to in the profiler it remains the same. I therefore set the degrees of rotation in game to 560. My wheel now matches the one on screen. :geek:

    Your thoughts are appreciated,
    :D
     
  2. Mark Reynolds

    Mark Reynolds
    Physics & AI Programmer

    I will send you a file tomorrow for your T500, and fwiw I use 540/26 when working on the physics, my current development wheel is a TM TX very similar to the T500, and in fact my current profile came from my original T500 profile so I should be able to back track it for you. Send you the file etc in the morning.
     
  3. Mark Reynolds

    Mark Reynolds
    Physics & AI Programmer

    I will also give you a breakdown on the options for your reference in the morning :)
     
  4. Jay Ekkel

    Jay Ekkel
    Kylotonn Games

    I was about to say @Mark should be able to help you out there, but he beat me to the punch! ;)
     
  5. FFB Strength - Strength of Force Feedback effects
    FFB Steering Force - Maximum force output of steering force
    FFB Steering Grip Weight - How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force. This parameters changes the way cornering forces and grip are mixed together.
    FFB Steering Weight Force - How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on the steering weight.
    This parameter changes the weight of front and real tyres in the grip force.
    FFB Curb Effects - How strong the rumble strip rumble is
    FFB Curb Pull - How strongly wheel pulls right/left when running over a rumble strip.

    FFB levels
    Low:
    steering force (steering+grip)
    Medium
    steering force+ damper+ friction+ strips rumble
    High
    steering force+ damper+ friction+ strips rumble+ brakes vibration
    Full
    steering force+ damper+ friction+ strips rumble+ brakes vibration+ throttle vibration+ steering vibration
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
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  6. Mark Reynolds

    Mark Reynolds
    Physics & AI Programmer

    TY Peter

    So one of the most important things is to make sure you have your drivers setup for the wheel, some suggested settings for you to try.........

    As the T500 is stronger than the TX I would use 60 - 70 % as a starting point for the values posted in the windows drivers, instead of the 100% shown here..........increase to taste.

    TX Settings.jpg

    Now, find your way to :

    Documents\my games\SimBin\RaceRoom Racing Experience\UserData\ControlSet

    In that location you will find your control files.

    Make a backup of your current file......

    Then you could try the following settings........

    Carefully paste the following section into your control file.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Speed Sensitive Steering="0.0"
    Speed Sensitive Steering Minimum Speed, in meters/second="0.0"
    Speed Sensitive Steering Maximum Speed, in meters/second="0.0"
    FFB Device Name=""
    FFB Device Name Alternative=""
    FFB Rumble Pad="0" // Type of FFB controller: 0=wheel, joystick etc with force feedback, 1 = pad with rumble motor
    FFB Effects Level="4" // Number of FFB effects to use: 0=No Effects, 1=Low, 2=Medium, 3=High, 4=Full, 5=Custom.
    FFB Gain="0.7" // Strength of Force Feedback effects. Range 0.0 to 1.0.
    FFB Throttle FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Throttle effects on throttle axis, 1 = throttle effects on steering axis.
    FFB Brake FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Brake effects on brake axis, 1 = brake effects on steering axis.
    FFB steer vibe freq mult="0.07" // Controls frequency of steering vibration. Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0, 0.0 disables steering vibration.
    FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.025" // Magnitude of steering vibration at 0mph (reference point).
    FFB steer vibe slope="0.01" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB steer vibe zero magnitude).
    FFB steer vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
    FFB steer force average weight="0.65" // How much weight is given to new steering force calculations each frame (0.01 - 1.0). Lower values will smooth out the steering force, but will also add latency.
    FFB steer force exponent="0.75" // Steering force output "sensitivity". Range 0.0 to infinity. 0.0 to 1.0 = higher sensitivity, greater than 1.0 = lower sensitivity.
    FFB steer force input max="11500.0" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if controller pulls in the wrong direction).
    FFB steer force output max="1.7" // Maximum force output of steering force, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0
    FFB steer force grip weight="0.5" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.
    FFB steer force grip factor="0.6" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.2 to 0.6. How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on the steering weight.
    FFB steer update thresh="1.000000e-004" // Amount of change required to update steer force/vibe (0.0 - 1.0). Lower values = steering force updated more frequently = lower frame rate.
    FFB steer friction coefficient="-0.15" // Coefficient to use for steering friction. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
    FFB steer friction saturation="1.0" // Saturation value to use for steering friction. Range: 0 - 1.0
    FFB steer damper coefficient="0.2" // Coefficient to use for steering damper. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
    FFB steer damper saturation="1.0" // Saturation value to use for steering damper. Range: 0 - 1.0
    FFB throttle vibe freq mult="0.4" // Scales actual engine frequency to force FFB vibration frequency. Suggested range: 0.10 to 0.50
    FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude="0.09" // Magnitude of engine vibration at 0rpm (reference point).
    FFB throttle vibe slope="0.0" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude).
    FFB throttle vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
    FFB throttle vibe update thresh="0.02" // Amount of change required to update throttle vibe (0.0 - 1.0)
    FFB brake vibe freq mult="0.9" // Scales actual brake rotational frequency to force feedback vibration frequency.
    FFB brake vibe zero magnitude="0.09" // Magnitude of brake vibration at 0mph (reference point).
    FFB brake vibe slope="0.0" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB brake vibe zero magnitude).
    FFB brake vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
    FFB brake vibe update thresh="0.02" // Amount of change required to update brake vibe (0.0 to 1.0)
    FFB rumble strip magnitude="0.5" // How strong the rumble strip rumble is. Range 0.0 to 1.0, 0.0 disables effect.
    FFB rumble strip freq mult="0.5" // Rumble stip frequency multiplier 1.0 = one rumble per wheel rev.
    FFB rumble strip wave type="3" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
    FFB rumble strip pull factor="0.0" // How strongly wheel pulls right/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested range: -1.5 to 1.5.
    FFB rumble strip update thresh="0.0075" // Amount of change required to update rumble strip effect (0.0 - 1.0)
    FFB jolt magnitude="1.9" // How strong jolts from other cars (or walls) are. Suggested Range: -2.0 to 2.0.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is used in combination with 540 degrees rotation set in the drivers and 26 degrees steering lock ingame.

    HTH
     
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  7. Here is Mark's controlset for the t500
     

    Attached Files:

    • Mark.rcs
      File size:
      15.3 KB
      Views:
      367
  8. I know these descriptions from Race07, but are you sure that this translates 1:1 to R3E?
    I'm asking, because in R3E there's a lot more difference between FFB level medium and high, than only added brake vibration.
     
  9. I know you know, but this is only a global description.
     
  10. Mark Reynolds

    Mark Reynolds
    Physics & AI Programmer

    Not sure,but I think I may had just edited a couple of small bits since your file Peter,just to make sure we have a tidy ship I have pasted my values into a new file and version named it, these files for all the devices will surely be evolving over the near future so version control probably a good idea for feedback as well :)
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. @Mark
    Thanks for posting those settings. A great improvement over what I was using before! Much more feel and in fact I just improved my PB around RaceRoom Raceway GP in the Aquila. :cool: Who said devs never read forums!

    Just been fiddling with the profiler and I am now using the following:

    Rotation: 540
    Overall Strength: 60%
    Constant: 100%
    Periodic: 100%
    Spring: 0%
    Damper: 0%
    Auto-center: by the game

    I don't know how you can use 0% for spring and damper. That just made the wheel have absolutely no weight.

    Thanks again :)

    EDIT: OK after doing some research I realise spring and damper should always be set to zero. I have edited the above accordingly. They are apparently 'fake' effects added by the profiler and mask feedback generated by the sim.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
  12. Awesome thread, now we just need someone to buy the devs the entire range of Fanatec products so we can have the same treatment! xD
     
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  13. @Mark
    Do you have any suggestions for the in-game FFB settings? I assumed that editing the rcs file would change them but I just realised they are separate.

    I am currently using:

    FFB Strength 100%
    FFB Steering Force 0.75
    FFB Steering Grip Weight 0.15
    Steering Weight Force 1
    FFB Curb Effects 0.5
    FFB Curb Pull 0.05

    :)
    EDIT: I've updated the above settings.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2014
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  14. Mark Reynolds

    Mark Reynolds
    Physics & AI Programmer

    Just thought I would tackle a couple of issues as we have a suitable thread for it.

    I will shortly have some time to dedicate solely to these controllers to try and improve on the base settings for you guys, however we a few things to bare in mind here.

    1. I am not a controller expert, nor do I pretend to be, I can only share with people a subjective controller file which works for me, you may find some uber file which does things better elsewhere, but I would like to think what I share is at least of some use to someone somewhere who has no idea at all with such things, that is probably the main goal of any files we release "officially", with this in mind I am also relying on people like Peter Koch and other testers to jump in and share their experiences so that can in turn be shared with you all.

    2. All these settings are so subjective, there is some settings which are just a real "no no" for some devices, and other settings which are like chalk and cheese depending who tries them, again this is where I rely on our testers to keep it real and relevant rather than a one man band effort from me which is based on my person feel.

    3. There is a couple of settings we provide to the player at this moment which are very very powerful, they can almost transform your opinion on how a car appears to drive, Force Grip Weight and Force Grip Factor are very very powerful, Force grip factor is almost to the point I am considering embedding it into the physics file so it can be on a per car basis, it is that powerful at changing how a car appears to drive, the bonus of this would also be that we can provide a more representative feel per car as we would be able to tweak that FFB value per car, when the physics are created they are created around this base value as well.

    4. When I talk about Wheel Profile and FFB I am purely talking about how the steering is communicating to you what the car is doing, especially how the wheel may ease off pressure when skidding or sliding etc, I am talking nothing at all to do with the other Force Feedback stuff which is still under heavy WIP, needs a major overhaul in general.

    5. I don't think we will ever see a perfect profile, because in many instances you need to sacrifice one area to gain in another slightly, I do believe we can keep trying to make them the best we can tho :)

    I do have access to all the top end hardware here, and will release this stuff as I make it, and of course be embedding this into our games at the first chance as well.

    The controller wizard is another thing we hope to bring to you in the future to make this process less painful to people who are less savvy at adjusting all these different options.

    So in summary, Wheel Profiles and Force Feedback very much a WIP thing here, as is the Controller Wizard etc, but we will share what we can as soon as we can and provide you any help we can along the way, I already see that Peter and Glen and others are also doing their best to help people whenever possible as well.

    Yes, when you load the controller profile I attached above all those values are loaded with what I currently recommend, It is important to try and use all the settings (driver etc) I posted if you can for a proper test before tweaking away at things you might change just by habit, sim racers are good at that, setting things to the same value just because thats what they always used in the past, so make sure you give it a good test before adjusting a single thing, then adjust to suit.... :)

    Curb pull should be 0 unless you like the unrealistic effect of the wheel pulling out your hands when you touch a curb.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
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  15. Rupe Wilson

    Rupe Wilson
    Keep Yoga real Premium Member

    looks like im going to have to fire up R3E and DTM to test out my T500

    thanks for all the help guys ..
    This is turning into a really nice thread..
    keep up the great work.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
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  16. Wuuuut you bought yourself a T500 @Rupe Wilson ? GZ! :D
     
  17. Rupe Wilson

    Rupe Wilson
    Keep Yoga real Premium Member

    had it a couple or 3 months now. :)
     
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  18. Kurt Vanhee

    Kurt Vanhee
    Premium Member

    Running this setup on my T500 F1 rim and say this really feels better than what i had before:thumbsup:
    Playing DTM-E

    @Mark, you have settings for Assetto Corsa:sneaky:
     
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  19. Mark, what settings are you using for the TM TX? I just installed RRE and I was going to give it a try.
     
  20. Mark Reynolds

    Mark Reynolds
    Physics & AI Programmer

    I have no custom settings but happy to share the settings I use for that game if you like ?

    -------

    I have a TX profile of course, I will drop that force feedback slice in here Monday for you.

    I am working on the G27 currently and hope to be able to offer some kind of base point next week for you guys.

    Feedback good and bad and opinions always appreciated, it may end up making the end result better if there is a trick to be learn't which I am unaware of....
     
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