The Off-Topic Thread

KS95

RACER Moderator
Just to avoid spamming threads, how about an off-topic thread.. basically to ask stuff and talk about stuff that doesn't need it's own thread or isn't very relative.

I'll start lol. Is anyone else having problems downloading from tracciontrasera? I just get redirected to the homepage every time :(
 
Nice to see you around again :) Might have to dig out some old project folders...

screenshot001.jpg
 
Evening, fellow Racers. I haven't been working on the TR for two weeks or so, but here's something else instead:

A Pirelli P-Zero Rosso tire texture - Now you have an excuse to start modelling a car. It's derived from an old Solidworks school modelling project, so the quality isn't exactly groundbreaking. But being a 3D rendering it is at least free of any unwanted highlights and such imperfections. Should be fairly accurate too. Not sure if the normalmap is correct for Racer use, feel free to let me know.

5vykZi8.jpg

Download .zip (1024px map + normalmap)

Use as you wish.
 
Nice work Bumper!

A few years back I started making the tyres for my Z4 from a model base, so I could do 3D normal maps, blur maps in the normals etc etc.

In the end the results can look really nice, especially with the PBR shaders Stereo and I were messing with the other year... having a nicely made wear (gloss) map means the tyres can really start to look photorealistic!

So having a decent 3D base map free of all the speculars and highlights that you mention, means making those maps can also be done a lot better too!


Just like everything now, doing all this extra work vs back in 2001 or so, is a lot more time consuming!


Maybe we need to start a tyre texture thing like the dials from many years ago... decide on a nice standard layout and even some base models with basic UV so people can do good tyres really easily and quickly... hmmmm.

Dave
 
Looking good!

I can probably help sort some sounds out if required.

I'll also try get those PBR car shaders refined a bit and see if Stereo can help with making them better too (just making sure I haven't broken them mainly haha)...

Dave
 
Hehe, that does look great. Yet more amazing work Bumper!

My only super small crit is that it'd be worth the extra few polys to smooth out the wing mirror a bit. The rest of the interior is so smooth it just stands out a bit.


As per sounds, I'll have a play around and watch some Youtube videos to try get something close to a 512.
The last time I heard one was on a meet up/drive out in the Yorkshire Dales and it had some unearthly exhaust system fitted that made it loud enough to make your ears bleed :D

Dave
 
Thank you guys!

Good point with the mirror there, Dave. I never really got around finishing it, so it was a bit of a mess really. So here's the fixed version. I altered the shape to make it more accurate, added quite a few polygons and did some overall smoothing for better reflections. It's not quite perfect, but I suppose it's as good as it gets. Looking at my reference images I'm pretty sure Ferrari used at least two different molds for the mirror, or then it's my eyes playing tricks on me.

As for the sounds, you could ask Alex for some help now that he's buying one.;)

Here's the fixed mirror:

zHhtZqU.jpg


Also, I should probably start my own thread and stop cluttering here.:D
 
That looks perfect now. How many polygons are you at for the car overall?


Your work inspired me a bit yesterday and I continued work on a spline cage layout for a car I'm working on :)
I'll post pics a bit later too.



I've also been messing with tyre models/textures/uv, along the idea of having a library system or some kinda way to make making good tyres for different cars a bit easier.
It's still at the thinking stage but it's getting there.

You still can't beat the approach you've used above and we've all used for years(round sidewall with pattern inside it), just it seems a bit of a waste of texture space and harder to work with because the texture for the sidewall is curved.

Hmmm

Dave
 
Thank you sir! I'm at 78K tris at the moment. It'll go up a little, since I still need underbody and suspension parts. Removing door jambs and such will compensate a little since you can't see those in Racer.

What I'm more worried about is the amount of textures after adding all normal maps etc. I can probably do a version with downsized textures if it seems too laggy. I currently have 10 different texture maps and I'm going to have normal maps for pretty much every one of them.
Does it make any sense to bake the actual body textures these days? That would at least enable making racing liveries (As if there were many racing Testarossas) but do you really need it shading-wise now that shadows can be done with Racer engine?

Can't wait to see pictures of your car project. I should try spline cage modelling one of these days. Which program are you modelling with?

As for the tire textures, I tried a sort of linear sidewall texture years ago, but it looked really choppy on the low-poly models of the day. I think it could've worked with a very high poly model, but on lowpoly model it was quite awful.
Here's another layout from 2006 or so. Leaves the center empty for texturing the rim. Should work with proper UV mapping, but it isn't perfectly optimal either. I might try this with the Testarossa if I can be arsed to change my current wheel textures. Or then I'll just use the empty center space to change the tire size bits from the sidewall, since the rear tires are obviously wider than the fronts.:)

LYg3RX1.jpg


edit: Ended up with this madness:

6UZwCFb.jpg
 
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For the current Racer engine, it's shader/draw count that will hurt performance more than VRAM use per se.
So combining textures and meshes so the renderer can deal with them in one pass is more preferable to having lots of smaller bits.

As per shading in the texture and liveries, I'm not sure what the best approach is, but ideally unwrapping for liveries is good because it also lets you add ambient occlusion data and also possibly a mix map for other things if you like, such as dirt maps or whatever.

I think unwrapping and having an ambient occlusion pass adds a lot to cars, since those areas in the shadows will come alive a lot more.
But then the base colour map really is wasted a bit if it's a solid colour.

But then a solid colour is good for liveries, since you need RGB for that.


As an example of what I'd personally do for a road/race car with livery, is I'd do the full unwrap as usual.
But perhaps try keep that texture to just the bodywork/solid paintwork elements, so if you have a 'white' version, it can be multiplied in the car.shd for different colours, without making other parts tinted (ie, if there are other colour parts in that texture/shader it'll be tinting those parts), or if you have a coloured version it can have livery.

OK you could put other bits in that texture map too, say indicator lenses, whatever else, but it'd be in a different shader that didn't get colour adjusted, and there is no point having it all in one big texture to do that, unless you feel there is 'free' room in that texture that is otherwise wasted.


In the end what you're doing is all good work assuming you keep PSD files for all the textures, then if we figure out better approaches later we can just swizzle textures around and apply superior shading. The base textures/UV maps etc generally all tend to work fine.

Ie, in your tyre above it's shaded darker to the back under the car. Really you could do that via an AO map, so in full sun it doesn't have a dark band at the back with the wheel turned.
But in the shade it'd look darker towards the back. Subtle difference but with modern shaders these are the things we can easily do, and it'd just be a matter of tweaking the textures for a bit to achieve that result!


As per normal maps, are you using them even on the main bodywork? I think for those kinds of jobs these days it's vogue to run more polygon detail and then just run lower poly models on LOD further away.
But for interiors and the matte parts of car exteriors I think normal maps really help as there are loads more 'fine' details that normal maps can cover easily. Ie, stitching on steering wheels and seats, or the subtle texture of dashboard materials, and of course tyre treads :)



I'll try get a WIP up soon, and also finish the project haha.

So far I'm using a photo/camera matching program to generate cameras and then using Max to do the spline work.
I'll then model from the splines using a sub-d approach at level 1, then collapse, then cut in details (like many high poly modellers do for later sub-division again).
That seems to get nice smooth surfaces, nice quad flow, but keep a moderate polygon level. Then just doing little bevels on all the panel gaps at the end.


I think that tyre approach is good with the middle for the wheel. But for my project I want to have lots of wheel swaps so you can choose the ones you want, so tyre/wheel will be split out I think.
I'll probably still run with the usual way in the end just because it's faff-free and ultimately easier for other people to re-use on slightly different tyre widths/profiles etc, as there is some 'space' around both tread pattern and sidewalls for doing some re-working or extensions etc!


Cheers

Dave
 
Here's another layout from 2006 or so. Leaves the center empty for texturing the rim. Should work with proper UV mapping, but it isn't perfectly optimal either. I might try this with the Testarossa if I can be arsed to change my current wheel textures. Or then I'll just use the empty center space to change the tire size bits from the sidewall, since the rear tires are obviously wider than the fronts.:)

LYg3RX1.jpg
This looks like the layout I use, it makes blur textures easy and accurate for both the tire and wheel.

Alex Forbin
 
@Bumper
Amazing work you're doing ! Keep it Rollin' ! :)

@all
Since the install of my new AMD HD Flex 6870, I have some issues with my Xtrees. They render somehow in a 'pinkish' color at the edges. Here's a screen shot :

Xtree_Pink_Issue_01_zpsicicgafu.jpg


Could you please test some of my tracks on your new ATI / AMD & tell me what you see ?

I've tried fixing, but nothing...

- checking & applying new shader params (xtree default)
- modding the racer.ini (renderer)
- changing the contrast / luminosity in the diffuse texture map (tree_palms.dds)
- swapping to TGA format
- etc..

Thanks
 
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Thanks for clearing up a lot of unanswered questions, Dave.
I suppose I'll UVW-map the body then. That's going to be interesting with the shape of Testarossa, but we'll see how it goes.

I don't think I'll be using Normal maps on the main bodywork. Just pretty much on everything else. As for the AO maps, someone's got a bit of teaching to do with me. First time I even hear of such witchcraft, but I suppose I'm good since I do indeed keep all the PSD's and you can always re-bake any maps if needed. My interior textures for example have a pretty baked-in shading in them, but I could always redo the base for whatever trickery needed.

Meanwhile the modelling is nearing completion. Only things remaining on my ToDo-list are now underbody, the fuel filler flap and side indicators. And all US-specific things in case I decide to make an US version. I must have forgotten something though.
Here are the pop-up lights modelled. It's one task I've been avoiding for a while since I couldn't find the correct pivot point for the lights.

JhTvRPf.jpg
 
Looking good!

There is something about a car made for fun, vs for a job. The extra care and attention to subtle details you've put in there.
It reminds me of Endo's GTR (never released), but the extra shading and texture details and stuff really made it feel like a real car, instead of a digital perfect recreation of one. Ie, unique and correct tyres, rather than just generic ones are a perfect example!



As per AO maps, the way you've done stuff for the interior is perfect.

All you're really doing is not adding shadows/shading to the diffuse texture, and instead adding it to another texture that works alongside the diffuse texture.
So you can also add information like glossiness to another texture channel, and another metallicness.

So really the base diffuse texture is more just blocks of colour, and then the character of the materials is brought out through the glossiness and metalness.

It seems fairly common industry standard these days, but it also makes some tasks easier too, since you can do almost all the interior materials from leathers, rubbers, chrome, etc, in one texture/shader pass!
So it looks better, easier to author, and renders faster too :D


But like I said, just carry on as you normally would, and hopefully by the time you get to textures I can write a small thread and process so it becomes obvious how PBR can be used for extra nice interior rendering.

And the exterior is pretty easy too, one shader for paint pretty much, then another for everything else like rubbers, plastics, chromes etc, as with interiors. Ie, stuff that doesn't change when you swap the car colours or liveries etc.


Cheers

Dave
 

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