Team Orders: "Fernando is faster than you"

OverTake.gg

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After having some time to dwell on the thrilling drama that was the Malaysian Grand Prix, it got me into thinking about "Team Orders". Is it right? Should F1, or any other formula allow Team Orders? What exactly are Team Orders and why should drivers obey them?

-Team Orders is a term for the practice of teams issuing instructions to drivers to deviate from the normal practice of racing against each other as they would against other teams' drivers. This can be accomplished either in advance, simply by establishing a pecking order between the two drivers within the team, or instructing a driver to let his teammate overtake or to hold position without the risk of collision.

-Drivers are employees like everyone else in a Team, therefore, they should be following the instructions of their superiors.

-F1, and any other racing formula that includes teams, should allow team orders as it may aid the team to win the Drivers and/or Constructors Championships.

-Team Orders has been an integral part of racing since the beginning, and has only come under scrutiny in the last twenty years, as F1 became more popular and the media began to pay more attention to it.

To fully understand Team Orders, we need to look at incidents throughout the years. Some of the team orders were perfectly just, they had merit to them, and they helped a team to achieve their goals. Others incidents made little sense and created controversy, they were blown up by the media and the fans for artificially creating a winner to a race, instead of allowing the race to end naturally with the quickest driver. Other times, the team orders were orchestrated by the team mates, allowing one another through as late as the distance between the last corner and the finish line.

Back in 1955, when most of us were either very young, or a twinkle in the old man's eye, Juan Manuel Fangio was obeying Team Orders. He was asked by the Mercedes team to let his British teammate Stirling Moss, win the British Grand Prix. Fangio obliged, and finished in second, less then a second behind Stirling Moss.

In a much more dramatic fashion, at the 1964 Mexican Grand Prix, the F1 World Championship was hanging in the balance, and it could be won by either Graham Hill, John Surtees or Jim Clark. Clark was in a position to win, but his engine blew out, leaving Surtees in third while Hill was out of the points. Surtees' teammate, Bandini, was in second place, and was asked by his team on the last lap to slow down and let Surtees through. John Surtees soon caught up and picked up the much needed points, to win the Championship by one point over Hill.

From 1979-1981, Alan Jones and Carlos Reutemann were teammates at Williams, and Alan Jones was regarded as their #1. In 1979 Reutemann was told not to attack Jones at the German Grand Prix, despite him leading the Championship. In 1981, Reutemann deliberately disobeyed team orders to let Jones through in the Brazillian Grand Prix, which lead to a feud between the two all season. Reutemann would miss out on the Championship by one point to Jones.

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The most successful drivers have obeyed team orders in the past. In the above video, you can see Senna letting his teammate Berger through. Senna was already the World Champion, and let Berger win because "he had been very helpful".

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In the above video, at 3:56, you can see Patrese waving his teammate Nigel Mansell through in the 1992 French Grand Prix.

As F1 headed towards the back end of the 90s, the media and fans began to criticize team orders a lot more, especially blatant examples of it. In the 1997 European Grand Prix, Jacques Villeneuve, already with the title in the bag, was asked by his engineer via radio to let the McLaren cars pass as "They've been very helpful".

At the Japanese Grand Prix of the same year, Ferrari driver Eddie Irvine began the race light on fuel, allowing him to get ahead of the superior Williams-Renault cars and hold them up, to the benefit of teammate Michael Schumacher

At the 1998 Australian Grand Prix, the McLaren drivers David Coulthard and Mika Hakkinen caused a stir by switching position at the end of the race in order to respect a previous agreement.

At the 1998 Belgian Grand Prix, the Jordan team was staring at a possible 1-2 Finish after Coulthard and Schumacher had collided in a brutal crash. Damon Hill said the following over the radio to his team. "I'm going to put something to you here, and I think you'd better listen to this. If we race, if we two race, we could end up with nothing, so it's up to Eddie (Jordan). If we don't race each other, we've got an opportunity to get a first and second, it's your choice." Ralf Schumacher was subsequently ordered not to overtake Hill, to assure Jordan of a 1-2 finish.

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At the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix, Rubens Barrichello was ordered to allow Ferrari teammate Michael Schumacher to pass to obtain the win. This received huge amounts of negative attention from the media, as the order was issued shortly before both drivers crossed the finish line. Both drivers were unhappy about the situation. Schumacher refused to take the top step of the podium and the center seat, normally reserved to the winner, during the post-race press conference, and the team was punished for breach of podium procedure. At the United States Grand Prix the very same year, Schumacher returned the favour by giving Barrichello the win by the record smallest margin of 0.011 seconds on the finishing line.

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After 2002, Team Orders were banned from F1, but they continued to be used discreetly. This happened between Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel in the Turkish Grand Prix, where Mark was asked to slow down to let Vettel past but refused, and we all know how that ended. In the same year, the famous line of "Fernando is faster than you" was uttered over team radio to Felipe Massa, despite Massa achieving the lead, and the Championship still being in its early stages. Ferrari have sacrificed Massa's position a number of times in an attempt to gain Alonso a World Championship, but he has fell short of the goal.

The banning of team orders were abolished in 2011, mostly due to the fact that team orders were always going to exist, and F1 would rather let the fans know what is happening, instead of being deceived of what they believe is a true result.

Another great example of Ferrari team orders, was during the 2012 US Grand Prix, where they purposely damaged Massa's car in order to get him a five place grid penalty, which would leave Alonso on the clean side of the grid. This worked amazingly in Alonso's favour,, and Ferrari owed Massa once again for his loyalty to the team.

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And as we all know, team orders yet again caused controversy when a driver disobeyed team orders for his own personal gains. It can be argued all day long about who was in the right and wrong in this situation, but at the end of the day, F1 is always going to have this happen so long as teams exist. Mercedes did the same thing in the same race, however both of their drivers listened, and they felt bad about it afterwards, but were able to move on without animosity. Hamilton will likely return the favour to his friend down the line, and that is how true teammates should work together.

Every driver wants to win races, while teams want to pick up Championships. Vettel knew for a fact that Webber had a lower engine mapping on, as he had been told to by the team, therefore this fight was unfair. Also Webber had just come out of the pits, so his tires would have been cold, but he was still able to hold him off. In the end, Mark conceded the position to avoid a collision, and his thoughts about the incident is well known.



Playing team orders at this stage, especially on someone like Vettel, is a very risky one, as he is looking to defend his World Championship and be the youngest driver to win four World titles in a row. His hunger for success is honorable, while at the same time, the way he goes about it, at the expense of his teammate, can be compared to the likes of Schumacher. However, could you ever imagine Vettel handing over a race win to Webber like Schumacher did to Barrichello? This remains to be seen.

When a team cannot clearly define a #1 and #2 driver in their team, these incidents are bound to occur, so the team itself is to blame as well. That is racing, and expect this kind of drama to continue in the world of F1. It is a jungle out there, one where the predators fight over the big, chunky points, while the king of the jungle will do absolutely anything, and everything, to keep their crown.

And that is all from me. I shall leave you with a famous quote, made by a legendary commentator.

"Anything happens in Grand Prix racing, and it usually does."
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Well written Kyle. I like that you mention both sides of the discussion. But I'd like to add that the fight wasn't unfair (Vettel - Webber) because it was about strategy. Vettel saved his tires the days before and had a brand new set of options while Mark had worn prime tires. So he was a lot faster than Webber even though Mark didn't had his Engine turned down. And I believe that Vettel even though would have catched up.

Anyway, all in all it is only about the final standings. In 2010, after Abu Dhabi, no one remembered that Alonso might wouldn't have had the opportunity to win the championship by getting fourth. Also in 2012 no one remembered that Alonso was helped to earn points in Austin while Vettel didn't had to expect, unlike Fernando, special care by the Team. This is no offense against Alonso (and has not a lot to do with the article itself) but I don't think anybody will forget Sepang '13 at the end of the season. I can imagine how they say that Vettel won just because of Malaysia and stuff.
No average driver can start from pole as often as Seb does just because of the car.
I don't really know how good Webber is although I watch F1 ever since but I wouldn't say that he is an average or bad driver. Vettel usually doesn't get extra care (besides Silverstone 2010?) or a better car. They have the same car and Horner said a few days ago that Mark and Seb both get the same treatment. They alternate who drives out on track first in Q or who makes the first pit stop.

I think Vettel is one of the last RACING drivers. Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi aswell.
Of course Massa, Button, etc. can sometimes be assholes on track too but the ones mentioned above show this killer instinct all the time

Again, nice review of the team order history!
 
Amazing article Kyle. Enjoyed reading it greatly :) Historical moments were nice to know. :) I believe team-orders should be there as it's a team-sport, and the drivers should obey them, unlike what Vettel did.

If people support Vettel for "he is a RACING driver", then he can also ram people out of track and they will say "he is a RACING driver" again?
 
Omer Said No. There is a clear difference between fighting and going too far. Senna in Suzuka went too far when he crashed Prost. Of course it wasn't the best thing Seb could have done but I don't like the way he is treated becuase of that. Alonso blocked Hamilton in Hungary and other drivers did comparable things but none of them got this kind of response by a lot of people. Sebastian is the black sheep of F1 and I don't really see a reason why he is so much worse in his behaviour than other comparable drivers
 
Omer Said No. There is a clear difference between fighting and going too far. Senna in Suzuka went too far when he crashed Prost. Of course it wasn't the best thing Seb could have done but I don't like the way he is treated becuase of that. Alonso blocked Hamilton in Hungary and other drivers did comparable things but none of them got this kind of response by a lot of people. Sebastian is the black sheep of F1 and I don't really see a reason why he is so much worse in his behaviour than other comparable drivers

Alonso was penalised as far as i remember. But Vettel was not. Who is the black sheep?
Note that i don't defend Alonso as it was also a terrible cheating towards his team-mate.
 
That's the decision of the Team to penalise Vettel but I think they won't do anything regarding Webber in the past years. I think Vettel won't make this decision again That's part of the process of beco ing a great driver. Making mistakes, asking to forgive you and not making it again. I don't really see that situation as bad as it is often mentioned when you look at comments on YouTube.

And Here's one thing that I'd like to dedicate to every member of RD:
Thank you for the chance of having a respectful conversation about F1! ;-)
 
Omer Said No. There is a clear difference between fighting and going too far. Senna in Suzuka went too far when he crashed Prost. Of course it wasn't the best thing Seb could have done but I don't like the way he is treated becuase of that. Alonso blocked Hamilton in Hungary and other drivers did comparable things but none of them got this kind of response by a lot of people. Sebastian is the black sheep of F1 and I don't really see a reason why he is so much worse in his behaviour than other comparable drivers

Senna wrecking Prost was politics. Jean Marie Balestre was stacking the cards in one drivers favour, and the other reacted in a way he felt he had no choice.

Vettel has nothing stacked against him. Why does he behave like this? I like him when he's being himself, but it looks like he's trying to create some sort of 'bad boy' image. HE heard Kimi swear on the podium, and he couldn't help himself Then he goes and disobeys team order and screwing over one of the most well liked drivers on the grid in Webber. He's a really nice guy, does he not WANT to be liked?

Bottom line is, Webber won't help him again. Now at this point in time, that means nothing. But it could mean something in Interlagos come November.
 
He let him past at Brazil in 2012, but only after getting in the way at the start of the race.

As I say, Webber not helping Vettel isn't really a problem for Vettel, but there may be just one moment when he needs Webber to move aside.
 
Webber helped Vettel quiet a lot 2012 or do you guys think Vettel would have been WDC if Webber would have performed like Massa in the first half?
The gap between Alonso and Vettel was only 3 points at the end and Webber definitely took more than that away from Alonso.
 
Senna wrecking Prost was politics. Jean Marie Balestre was stacking the cards in one drivers favour, and the other reacted in a way he felt he had no choice.

Vettel has nothing stacked against him. Why does he behave like this? I like him when he's being himself, but it looks like he's trying to create some sort of 'bad boy' image. HE heard Kimi swear on the podium, and he couldn't help himself Then he goes and disobeys team order and screwing over one of the most well liked drivers on the grid in Webber. He's a really nice guy, does he not WANT to be liked?

Bottom line is, Webber won't help him again. Now at this point in time, that means nothing. But it could mean something in Interlagos come November.

I don't really think it has something to do with Kimi or if his team mate is a popular man. Alonso, Kimi, Senna, Fangio or Grosjean could have been in car #2 and it wouldn't be something different for Seb.
Seeing his interviews (maybe not directly post-race) you can say that he is completly different from what he is on the race track, so I don't hink he wants to be a bad boy. As I already mentioned:
I think Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton are pretty simmilar. Alonso is one who acts like a bad boy even off track sometimes, not always. (Gun picture before season final) But I like it. I don't want them to be like Soccer players (sorry for saying soccer to all europeans but I guess there are some Americans here ;-)) who are saying how good their opponent is. boring. I like them to be an grumpy on track and whatever they want off track. Just my opinion.

Btw: rhis is not really an answer to your post but as the first sentence fits to your post I quote yours :)
 
Yeah I suppose you're right Joe. He would have done the same to any team mate.

Which means it will be hard to find him a good team mate in the future. What will Red Bull do then? They would have to run a massively sub par driver that knows Vettel is king, because no decent driver will want to be Vettel's team mate (Well, not at Red Bull anyway).
 
That's true. But as long as almost any Red Bull Rookie wants to drive for them after a few years at TR they won't be in need to find someone. Which will lead to the problem that they might won't be able to win the constructors when Mark isn't driving anymore.
 
I really don't see any problem at all for RB.
Ricciardo is probably a bit faster than Webber, almost as consistent and definitely as unlucky ;)
And da Costa might even be better than Vettel once he had one or two years of time in F1.
Plus, all F1 drivers have a fairly high opinion of themselves, I don't think there are many who would pass up the chance to prove themselves against Vettel.
 
I really don't see any problem at all for RB.
Ricciardo is probably a bit faster than Webber, almost as consistent and definitely as unlucky ;)
And da Costa might even be better than Vettel once he had one or two years of time in F1.
Plus, all F1 drivers have a fairly high opinion of themselves, I don't think there are many who would pass up the chance to prove themselves against Vettel.

How do you think that Ricciardo is faster than Webber, we will perhaps only know when/if he is in a Red Bull car ;)

Also, i'm not sure that da Costa has what it takes to win 3 World Championships, but we'll see.
 
How do you think that Ricciardo is faster than Webber, we will perhaps only know when/if he is in a Red Bull car ;)

Also, i'm not sure that da Costa has what it takes to win 3 World Championships, but we'll see.
Ricciardo is an extremely good qualifier (for example he managed P6 in Bahrain in a car that was vastly inferior to everything but the backmarkers), whereas Webber often ends up behind slower cars on the grid.
And as far as da Costa goes: I said he MIGHT be better than Vettel. At the very least he's by far the best driver RB has produced after Vettel.
 

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