Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

Mr Latte · Mar 28, 2018

@rocafella1978
Will have a look at that amp, I see it has additional switches not found on standard amps. That can bring more confusion too. We need to set it to run in stereo mode. As it is a prosumer amp, the good news is that it uses XLR and SpeakON type cables which are the best and most robust connections.

Can you confirm the model you have is the same with its connections and rear switches as THIS. Also here is the PDF. I have a feeling @asteroulis, this may be the same amp Mark from GTPlanet, had that you got?

The good news is that the most robust way to extend your BK cables is to use SpeakON adapter plugs which your amp uses for its speaker terminal outputs.

---------------------------------------------------------------
For now briefly what you need to do is have:

From Buttkicker - Amp

BK Cable - Male SpeakON plug
SpeakON joiner/coupler (connect 2x male plugs together)
Extended cable to length required from tactile to amp using male SpeakON plug at each end.
Connect into amp female SpeakON Sockets and twist to lock

From PC - Amp (Channel A) & (Channel B) Inputs

Sound Card Output 3.5mm - Twin / Stereo Male XLR cable

---------------------------------------------------------------

Really thats about it, later if you confirm the amp, then I can help link cables to buy.
You can buy the SpeakON (extended cable) with the connectors at the length you need (typically 2-meters). Therefore you only need to attach or wire SpeakON plugs onto each BK cable (2x screws).

All can be shown later in more detail....
With using 2x Amps. Assuming you want "Quad" installation. Then on your soundcard, you will use "Green" front Stereo and "Black" rear stereo outputs. So you will need 2x 3.5mm - Male XLR stereo cables as one for each pair of channels and connection.

Below are examples only, shop around for best deals and cable lengths you need.
PC - Amp Inputs Cable
3.5mm Jack - Stereo Male XLR

SpeakON stuff
Neutrik Male 2 Pole Plug
Coupler
Extended Cable Male-Male

Peter Klawitter · Mar 28, 2018

Mr Latte said:
@rocafella1978
Will have a look at that amp, I see it has additional switches not found on standard amps. That can bring more confusion too. We need to set it to run in stereo mode. As it is a prosumer amp, the good news is that it uses XLR and SpeakON type cables which are the best and most robust connections.

Can you confirm the model you have is the same with its connections and rear switches as THIS. Also here is the PDF. I have a feeling @asteroulis, this may be the same amp Mark from GTPlanet, had that you got?

The good news is that the most robust way to extend your BK cables is to use SpeakON adapter plugs which your amp uses for its speaker terminal outputs.

For now briefly what you need to do is have:

From Buttkicker - Amp
BK Cable - Male SpeakON plug
SpeakON joiner/coupler (connect 2x male plugs together)
An extended cable the length required from tactile to amp using male SpeakON plug at each end.
Connect into amp female SpeakON Sockets and twist to lock.

From PC - Amp (Channel A) & (Channel B) Inputs
Sound Card Output 3.5mm - Twin / Stereo Male XLR cable

Really thats about it, later if you confirm the amp, then I can help link cables to buy.
You can buy the SpeakON (extended cable) with the connectors at the length you need (typically 2-meters). Therefore you only need to attach or wire SpeakON plugs onto each BK cable (2x screws).

All can be shown later in more detail....
With using 2x Amps. Assuming you want "Quad" installation. Then on your soundcard, you will use "Green" front Stereo and "Black" rear stereo outputs. So you will need 2x 3.5mm - Male XLR stereo cables as one for each pair of channels and connection.

Below are examples only, shop around for best deals and cable lengths you need.

PC - Amp Inputs Cable
3.5mm Jack - Stereo Male XLR

SpeakON stuff
Male 2 Pole Plug
Coupler
Extended Cable Male-Male

hi @Mr Latte , that is absolutely correct -> https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tamp_e400.htm

and read a lot about cables, for sure want to build a robust, balanced and proper setup -> nice cables and something which i don't need to upgrade or be worried about.

for the Buttkicker mini-LFE's, white and black wires? do i need to solder or crimp connectors to them then? is that the idea?

thanks again, very grateful for your help and support @Mr Latte

Mr Latte · Mar 28, 2018

No probs, its not hard when you start to get your head around it.

Info:
PDF Link for SpeakON

Several of these on Youtube

Mini LFE has a short 30cm cable terminating in bare wire for ease of installation.
The white cable is positive (+), black cable is negative (-).

Neutrik & Van Damme would be brands to consider for cables, though cheaper are available.

You be up and running in no time!

Just depends if you want to use or get into SSW or Simvibe first.

Peter Klawitter · Mar 28, 2018

to get it right/ or order correct stuff:

for BK mini-LFE to AMP (output)
for Sound Card to AMP (input)
- 2x Neutrik Mini Jack 3.5mm to 2 x Male XLR Cable Audio Stereo Lead Pro (3 Metre)

is this correct?
thank you @Mr Latte

then, question is for a beginner/ what is the recommendation?:

Mr Latte · Mar 28, 2018

rocafella1978 said:
to get it right/ or order correct stuff:

for BK mini-LFE to AMP (output)

4x Designacable 2m Custom Length Van Damme Blue Series Speakon to Speakon Lead Neutrik Cable

4x Neutrik NL4MMX Speaker Coupler - Male to Male

for Sound Card to AMP (input)

2x Neutrik Mini Jack 3.5mm to 2 x Male XLR Cable Audio Stereo Lead Pro (3 Metre)

is this correct?
thank you @Mr Latte

Yes I believe that is all correct.
However you ALSO need 4x SpeakON Male connectors remember

To attach to the 30cm cable on the BK units. 2 Pole is okay but as shown in video above the 4 Pole version is a better product. Either will suffice... You then just insert the black/white cables from BK (following instruction they come with) into the socket/poles you need and tighten. This secures a SpeakON connector to the Buttkicker.

4 Pole SpeakON

Note 4 pole means it can accept 4 cables for bi-wiring etc we only need 2 but the 4 pole version has metal release clasp etc that the 2 pole version doesn't. The guy in video above alluded to this...

2 pole 4 Pole & 8 Pole wiring diagrams...
See: 1+ (White) & 1- (Black) (Positive / Negative)

You will only need the one soundcard with the 4 units.
Recommend using the DGX

Ceolmor · Mar 28, 2018

rocafella1978 said:
then, question is for a beginner/ what is the recommendation?:

https://andres.shop/software/21-simshaker-wheels.html

http://simxperience.com/en-us/products/simvibe/simvibesoftware.aspx

I can give you my opinion on that:

Both do some things better than the other. Neither is yet perfect.
Simvibe has more options for settings, but is therefore more confusing.
The default wav. files for Simshaker Wheels (SSW) are OK, but files created by @Mr Latte are better.
SSW is cheaper.

Please note that I have only used both in "extensions" mode.

Peter Klawitter · Mar 28, 2018

Ceolmor said:
I can give you my opinion on that:

Both do some things better than the other. Neither is yet perfect.

Simvibe has more options for settings, but is therefore more confusing.

The default wav. files for Simshaker Wheels (SSW) are OK, but files created by @Mr Latte are better.

SSW is cheaper.

Please note that I have only used both in "extensions" mode.

Thank you @Ceolmor , that is great to know and really might be thinking of testing out SimVibe first.

Mr Latte · Mar 28, 2018

SSW testing,,,, testing,,, 1,2,1,2

I was testing my new effects for both "Wheel Slip" and "Lateral G" last night, easily a 4 hour session.

These feel so much better than before with some new progress and things I have learned.
Result is a massive difference in detail and sensation compared to default effects. More on this in its own thread when ready.

Im now making variants of these effects that use different Hz but maintain the same waveform character. This alters the weight of the sensation felt. Giving you guys a choice to choose.

Then I also have to create the effects for the various 1-6 tactile configurations people are using. (This takes a bit of time to do)

I gotta say though, they feel stonkingly good on my TST units, so should work well on common models. However I see big differences in the required SSW slider Gain settings needed between my TST/BK units.

This is the tricky part that those testing will help me determine what amplitude to use with the waveform. We may even need to adapt the waveform for the Buttkicker models to suit their different operating characteristics. It may be best to seek to have actual files for certain models, eg BK Mini, BK Advance, ADX, Aura, TST etc.

That would make it easier for the user once we discover what works well.

Excited to see how this progresses, next week.
The more people that get involved or bring different models to give feedback on then the better this can be for everyone interested.

Peter Klawitter · Mar 28, 2018

i have 2x AMP's t.amp e-400 and 4x BK mini LFE's

for 4x BK mini-LFE with 30cm white and black wires, connect to:
- 4x Neutrik NL4FX Cable Jack Collet Cable Grip Dark Grey Adaptor 4-Pin
from 4x BK mini-LFE with Neutrik NL4FX connect to:
1. 4x Neutrik NL4MMX Speaker Coupler - Male to Male
from 4x COUPLERS connect with below to 2x AMP's
1. 4x Designacable 2m Custom Length Van Damme Blue Series Speakon to Speakon Lead Neutrik Cable

then from Soundcard to 2x AMP's with below:

2x Neutrik Mini Jack 3.5mm to 2 x Male XLR Cable Audio Stereo Lead Pro (3 Metre)

i thought i need two of the cable above for 2x AMP's right? i have 4x Buttkicker mini-LFE's for 2x AMPs

Mr Latte · Mar 28, 2018

rocafella1978 said:
for 4x BK mini-LFE with 30cm white and black wires, connect to:

4x Neutrik NL4FX Cable Jack Collet Cable Grip Dark Grey Adaptor 4-Pin

from 4x BK mini-LFE with Neutrik NL4FX connect to:

4x Neutrik NL4MMX Speaker Coupler - Male to Male

from 4x COUPLERS connect with below to 2x AMP's

4x Designacable 2m Custom Length Van Damme Blue Series Speakon to Speakon Lead Neutrik Cable

then from Soundcard to 2x AMP's with below:

2x Neutrik Mini Jack 3.5mm to 2 x Male XLR Cable Audio Stereo Lead Pro (3 Metre)

i thought i need two of the cable above for 2x AMP's right? i have 4x Buttkicker mini-LFE's for 2x AMPs

Yes, I agreed with that above as you had 2x listed.
You only seemed to be missing the connectors for the actual BK wires/cables.
I recommend 2x NL4MP (4 Pole) for those

If your new to this, my advice would be to start with SSW.
Get involved with the upcoming testing too.

By all means get Simvibe as well but it's likely going to be more confusing and stressing.
It really takes a good bit of time put into it to get to grips with and dial in settings you may like.

For SSW and with the upcoming test thread.
This is to bring people instant effects that not only feel good but are tested and configured by the community feedback to work best on their hardware.

Its about time something like this was done...

Peter Klawitter · Mar 28, 2018

Mr Latte said:
Yes, I agreed with that above as you had 2x listed.
You only seemed to be missing the connectors for the actual BK wires/cables.
I recommend 2x NL4MP (4 Pole) for those

If your new to this, my advice would be to start with SSW.
Get involved with the upcoming testing too.

By all means get Simvibe as well but it's likely going to be more confusing and stressing.
It really takes a good bit of time put into it to get to grips with and dial in settings you may like.

For SSW and with the upcoming test thread.
This is to bring people instant effects that not only feel good but are tested and configured by the community feedback to work best on their hardware.

hi there, am not sure where i connect these?
4x Neutrik NL4MP-ST 4-Pole Chassis Connector, Black D-Size Flange
i think i am now confused about how to connect it all with these NL4MP-ST's.

maybe will paint/ draw it all up.

signman · Mar 28, 2018

I was in your shoes some months ago Rockafella..

Mr Latte patiently guided me through it all.. Believe me it's worth the effort mate .

Mr Latte · Mar 28, 2018

By the way....

Those interested in being part and contributing to the SSW test please send me a PM and give me details of your configurations and hardware used. Add photos or diagrams if you want..

This way I can begin creating the effects to work on your configurations.
All you will need to do is download and place in the appropriate "Car" folders.

During a sim session, you can switch between different "Car" folders for variations of the effect.

Mr Latte · Mar 28, 2018

rocafella1978 said:
hi there, am not sure where i connect these?
4x Neutrik NL4MP-ST 4-Pole Chassis Connector, Black D-Size Flange
i think i am now confused about how to connect it all with these NL4MP-ST's.

maybe will paint/ draw it all up.

My bad, as the diagram I posted, is for the SpeakON chassis connectors that the cables can plug into, not the actual cable connectors themselves. You don't need those, these are only if you want multiple connections built into a panel on the cockpit, removing the need for multiple couplers.

Check here, SpeakON products.
You want the SPX product NL4FX
To confirm you need 4 of those and 4x couplers, also 4 extended male-male SpeakON cables

See assembly diagram also on the product page.
Scroll down on this LINK for "speakON" PDF for each product with helpful diagrams.

Peter Klawitter · Mar 28, 2018

Mr Latte said:
My bad, as the diagram I posted, is for the SpeakON chassis connectors that the cables can plug into, not the actual cable connectors themselves. You don't need those, these are only if you want multiple connections built into a panel on the cockpit, removing the need for multiple couplers.

Check here, SpeakON products.
You want the SPX product NL4FX
To confirm you need 4 of those and 4x couplers, also 4 extended male-male SpeakON cables

See assembly diagram also on the product page.
Scroll down on this LINK for "speakON" PDF for each product with helpful diagrams.

hi, after all the reading, your posts, your help and guidance, this is my understanding. is this all correct?

sorry for my bad skills

of paint/ graphics.

Peter Klawitter · Mar 28, 2018

Mr Latte said:
SSW testing,,,, testing,,, 1,2,1,2

I was testing my new effects for both "Wheel Slip" and "Lateral G" last night, easily a 4 hour session.

These feel so much better than before with some new progress and things I have learned.
Result is a massive difference in detail and sensation compared to default effects. More on this in its own thread when ready.

Im now making variants of these effects that use different Hz but maintain the same waveform character. This alters the weight of the sensation felt. Giving you guys a choice to choose.

Then I also have to create the effects for the various 1-6 tactile configurations people are using. (This takes a bit of time to do)

I gotta say though, they feel stonkingly good on my TST units, so should work well on common models. However I see big differences in the required SSW slider Gain settings needed between my TST/BK units.

This is the tricky part that those testing will help me determine what amplitude to use with the waveform. We may even need to adapt the waveform for the Buttkicker models to suit their different operating characteristics. It may be best to seek to have actual files for certain models, eg BK Mini, BK Advance, ADX, Aura, TST etc.

That would make it easier for the user once we discover what works well.

Excited to see how this progresses, next week.
The more people that get involved or bring different models to give feedback on then the better this can be for everyone interested.

i would and will be happy to get on SSW also, with all your help here.

Mr Latte · Mar 28, 2018

rocafella1978 said:
hi, after all the reading, your posts, your help and guidance, this is my understanding. is this all correct?

View attachment 243353
sorry for my bad skills of paint/ graphics.

Yep thats it man your good to go....

Hiro Abe · Mar 29, 2018

I installed both the sorbathane dampeners and the ADX last night - pics below.

The dampeners do a really good job. There was a lot less vibration making it to the rest of my rig. The ADX is a mixed bag. It provides more fidelity than the TST209 but in a different aspect. I would say the ADX is designed more for impacts / sudden transitions. It didn't do great with engine beat/vibrations (it mostly felt like a buzzy, high frequency vibration). It did well with deceleration and wheel slip though. It has a pretty hefty kick to it. If memory serves (a big "if") it has a heavier kick than the AuraSounds I used to have.

My intention was to transmit, primarily, engine vibes through my floorboard and the ADX is really not hitting the mark. In fact, I'm tempted to reinstall the 209 since that was doing a better job - imo - and I didn't try it with the new dampeners installed which should help it further still. I can see how the more expensive models would really step it up and provide much improved performance as Mr. Latte has reported. Not sure if I'm willing to go there quite yet. Trying to keep the expenses somewhat under control!

So, I think where I may net out is keep the 209 for engine vibes (would really like to improve this within SSW if possible). I like the response of the ADX and may get another one, pair it up with a 1000DSP and use them for a stereo bump effect or slip effect or some combination. My goal is on a more subtle scale than most - or at least I think more than most. I'm not looking to shake myself out of my rig. For example, I really like the LFE. I'm not using it to its max potential but it provides a... umm... heavy kind of feedback which I like. I realize it will be even better once I figure out how to isolate my seat from the rest of my rig but I'm pretty pleased with it as is.

Below shows my floorboard. It is a piece of 3/4" plywood. The metal plate you see is a piece of thin aluminum where my heels rest. You can see the four bolts that keep it in place.

Here is a shot from underneath. You can see how the floorboard is bolted and the black you see between the plywood and the bracket are the sorbathane dampeners. I backed out a couple of them since they were looking a bit too squished. I figure that was negatively impacting their performance. Obviously, to the left is the mounted ADX which is directly under that aluminum plate where my heels rest.

Ceolmor · Mar 29, 2018

Hi Scott

Your use of the isolators in the pedal section is similar to mine, isolating it from the rig.

As I understand it, plywood is not the best conductor of tactile and that hardwood or mild steel or aluminium plate is better. Also, you have a large piece of plywood for the vibrations to disperse across. Would you be able to add some 80/20 profile sections and have a smaller plate for your heels, to which the ADX could be bolted underneath.

As you have your pedals coming from above, rather than below, I assume you are getting no vibration in the pedals themselves. With my pedal attached to the plate that holds the shaker, I can get engine vibration through the sole of my foot from the throttle/accelerator (gas, if you're in USA) pedal, which is nice.