RSRBR2011 - Realistic vs Reduced damage??

[Warren Dawes]

I would appreciate some feedback from more experienced users of RSRBR2011 re the damage level settings.

I have read the RBR manual about damage settings, which says that Reduced has medium mechanical faults and Realistic has full mechanical faults. The differences are obvious in an off-line Championship in the base RBR where Services reflect the time to repair the car.

However, I'm not sure what the scale of difference is in RSRB2011.
I have been doing a lot of testing for a possible up-coming RD Club Rally using Realistic damage instead of our usual Reduced. To be totally honest, I can't detect any difference. Maybe my driving style is not hard enough on the car, but I have tried to abuse it (over-revving on downshift, hitting roadside objects, etc), but nothing is obviously different.
I've only tried it in RSRBR2011 Off-line mode, and driving single Stages (but tried short ones, long ones, different surfaces, weather etc).
Does it have more impact over a longer driving period, ie. only over multiple Stages using cumulative damage?
Are the differences only minor (I expected it to be significant)?
Has the physics in RSRBR2011 eliminated any difference between Reduced and Realistic?
Does the difference only show in On-Line Rallys?

Hopefully, someone more experienced with using RSRBR2011 on-line can explain what the differences are and how much more severe Realistic is.

 

[Rick Bamford]

I didn't explain myself clearly enough on the fun factor too, it seems lol. Its not a fun when you make 80% of the stage not touching anything and then one little tap gets you DNF. Frustrating and not real. That means you can't relax and have fun knowing you can't make ANY mistakes. So thats where the knowledge of the stages comes into play. If you know the stage well, you CAN relax and have fun, it won't impact on your overall time too.

Yes, it is more fun for me to have that kind of pressure. And making a small mistake near the end of the stage.................I've done it on a 33 KM stage. disapointing yes, but all part of the fun IMHO. I even try this with each new stage that gets released and do it WITHOUT the notes. That challenge is what is so great. I know that when I get to that point I can "relax" during a stage I'll be leaving the game and going to find something more challenging.

No offence to Alastair, but there is no weight behind it, too little experience with the game damage model imo. As for you Rick, why don't you purposely test it for this bug of my? Just head for the nearest tree\post\ect at the start of a stage with what you would consider survivable speed of impact. And repeat that a few times. I wish there was a way of saving replays when you can't drive anymore, but there isn't.

Umm, done it Dariusz. Did it when you fist made the comment about it a while ago. have NEVER found this problem.

Is that realistic I thought we want to make the experience as real as it can get..what i mean by that is, if you do make a mistake in real life and front end something it doesn't mean your rally is finished ( it may happen ), NOT that you shouldn't drive without making any mistakes, you certainly should.

It IS realistic. One tap, one touch of the front aginst a wall or tree and months of real life work goes out the window. I have hit things in realistic damage and been able to continue without issue or with a damaged radiator. I have also hit a tree in reallife at about 20 km/h and put the engine through the radiator. I have only ever found the engine being killed in RBR on rare occations even if i am TRYING to like you said or if I have a big off.

This is why I just don't get what you are talking about. This "bug" just isn't there for me and the damage model has never been an issue for me, and like I said, you can't convince me it is. I won't be trying to convince you otherwise either.

One thing John said, unfortunately, is true though. I may not like it, but it is a fact that having realistic damage can put some new drivers off. Warren has never said that the RallyClub would go to realistic damage becuase it would put them off, we are just testing it and see what the difference is and have a new challenge every now and then.

It really shouldn't be this big an issue for any of us either way, and we certainly shouldn't be filling up an entire thread with this silly squabbling.

 

[Dariusz Swiderski]

I have not imagined ( i hope for my sanity lol ) this issue 3 times in a row. Also i wasn't prejudiced to realistic if you read my post when Warren announced it. I welcomed it with open arms and mind. Maybe others can shine more light on the subject too pls.

Every sim-racer i talked to thinks being relax behind a wheel is THE key to good results. You are the first i know of, who think otherwise Rick. Being relax got nothing to do with having less challenge, but everything to do with having fun imo. I suppose its a personal thing.

It wasn't my intention to squabble about it, just to point out what i think is wrong with it. NOTHING ELSE. Thats why we're having forums, right? It is you, Rick, who take all this very personal. In contrast to you i don't set my mind in stone, i CAN be convinced i,m maybe wrong with this issue. Will do some tests of my own and post the results. We need more diverse data as well, so speak up of your experience guys pls.

 

[Jeremy Loveland]

Ok since this is the place to put your opinion up of realistic vs Reduced Damage here i go.....

Ok so as some of you know im a big fan of realistic damage as its been the way ive allways drivin in RBR and RSRBR, the reson ive done so is because its a racing sim and i just figured if im going to be playing a racing sim for its realisim might as well have realistic damge too, now im not going to sit here and tell you its exactly the same as the real thing or that its the only way to be.
Its just the way ive done it.
I think the reason that alot of people get scared off from realistic Damage is that its so easy to ride the car off, and yes it can be tho i have had a few rallys where ive rolled the car not once or twice but 3 times in a single stage, and still managed to cross the finish line and won the rally (this is in RBR, champion rally season mind you).
and yes the car was rat **** toward the end of the stage and was wobbling all over the place (thank god for the service park )

Nows this is why i think alot of people shy away from realistic rally damage.
I think its kinda the fault of the makers of RSRBR (im not saying they have ruined RBR for everyone and there all evil or anything) but i think because it comes with a profile that has everything unlocked it robs the player or stops the player from having to go through the motions of earning the bonus's them selves or in some cases finishing Rally school.

Now in my opinion the right way to start a game like this is from the start, all those looking at playing this game start with the original game RBR and play through before installing RS centre, finish the rally school, play through a few seasons, learn to rally drive, im not saying dedicate a solid week to the game or even a weekend.
but i do recomend that people sit down and enjoy what is in my opinion the best rally game ever made, and i think once you manage to start winning rally seasons in the game even if your just doing it in rookie to start with i think youll begin to understand why i recomend playing through before you go all out and and download/install another 50+ tracks and cars to confuse you before youve learnt the game.....

Just my opinion.

 

[Aaron DeMarre]

I wanted to see just how realistic "realistic damage" is, so on my way to work this AM I ran my car into various objects at various speeds.

To be honest, the jury is still out on this one, I am just hoping my insurance covers it so I can get a new car soon and continue my testing.

 

[Rick Bamford]

Aw, I hope you're kidding Aaron. :wink:

 

[Aaron DeMarre]

Yeah I am

I thought this thread could use some levity.

 

[Rick Bamford]

Levitated!!!!! :wink:

 

[Senad Subasic]

Been watching some V8 racing last night, and realized that they often drive away from way more serious crashes than some engine killing crashes in RBR. And I suspect rally cars are built a bit tougher than track racing cars.

 

[Dubravko Sparovec]

First of all I'd like to say that I love the game and that physics are close to a real drive.

But as any other simulation out there it will never be like the real thing. No mater how the technology gets better it will always be a simulation. To make it real you would have to realistically simulate all the parts on the car, their interaction, interaction with the road surface, environment, etc. etc. and in the end make it all work properly. That's close to impossible so you have to simplify things. With that sad all respect to the guys that made this game. Especially as for me the realistic damage is pretty realistic. I bought the game in 2005 and my first mod was RSRBR2011. Playing the game before the mode and after the mode online and offline stayed the same for me and the damage settings also. Realistic setting is dramatically higher then reduced. It has to be. I mean although this is a hardcore simulation it's still a game. So I look on the damage settings as on lives or health in other games. Reduced is like 3 lives and realistic is 1 but if you get "the bullet in the head" you are dead.

Reduced damage at 50km/h (30 mph)

Reduced damage at 140km/h (87 mph)

Realistic damage 55 km/h (34 mph)

 

[Łukasz Demolin]

I understand both Dariusz's and Rick's point. And I think both are valid.

I am fully with Rick, because I often drive a bit slower just because I still rely heavily on the pace notes on almost all RBR stages. And I would like to see heavier penalties for not respecting the road enough. A slight tap can be disastrous; even without touching a wall you can be out of a rally, just land a jump sideways. As Mikko Hirvonen after Finland 2010. Or anyone with a wheel ripped away/radiator crushed by an eagerly taken crest.

Of course RBR damage modelling is far from perfect, but the very "sensitive front" isn't the issue itself - the problem is that some small trees in RBR are just unmovable and apparently done from Corundum covered in concrete. That's the real issue. Normal, over-a-tonne weighing rally car just plows through them, as presented on this (well, I can't compete with you on the Driving License field, so I'll just show off a picture shot by me on a rally) picture of a "crashing" rally car.

Collision model IS unpolished in RBR, but as much as I think that due to the nature of Club events Reduced is usually the way to go with those events it might be a good idea to include Realistic damage in RDRC. It is used in the most prestigious leagues and attendance is still high; league is a step up from the casual playing - even a one as laid back and almost "family-based" as ours .

Aliens/hardcore players will always have the advantage. We can't really do anything about it (and should we, really? It's their choice). Without really long stages that are hard to memorize fully and a good set of pacenotes anyone with more realism-based approach is bound to be slower and he just has to live with it.

 

[Warren Dawes]

This week we organised our second Realistic Test Rally using Gravel Stages.

If anyone has any worthwhile feedback from this rally, please let us know in this thread.

 

[Norman Biscuits]

I'm a big fan of the realistic.

I've been doing all my practice with realistic since the first time we ran it, I think it makes me a better driver, I think it gives me more focus - it forces me to concentrate more, I guess.

Is it more fun? I think definitely - but I feel there's a significant difference between the two damage models - even though others have found little or no difference.

It's something I'd like to see embraced across both the club and the league - after all, what other racing simulations are run on a lesser damage setting at RD?

(But I wouldn't want it if it meant killing the scene you've got going here.)

 

[Pete Mull]

Having had to run the first two stages of the Club Rally without any significant braking, I've change my opinion about running full rallies on the realistic settings. Many of the stages have inconsistent setting with respect to what causes terminal damage and therefore there is no telling what is going to put you out of the stage and in that sense, it just isn't true to life.

I ran wide on a corner last night and just went off onto the bank - not in my opinion, sufficient to cause terminal damage to the car, yet, I was forced to retire. Also, during practice on Prospect Ridge I have clipped one of the 'bushes' and been forced to retire, not realistic at all.

By all means have one stage, perhaps two carefully selected stages that are run on realistic damage, but I don't think the whole rally needs to consist of realistic stages. With times at the top being so close, drivers suffer enough of a time penalty by having to drive back onto the track or get put back on to the track by the marshals without having to be forced to retire for clipping a bank or other indiscretion.

Pete

 

[Warren Dawes]

By all means have one stage, perhaps two carefully selected stages that are run on realistic damage, but I don't think the whole rally needs to consist of realistic stages.
Pete

Thanks for the feedback Pete, however, it is not possible to have only part of a rally set to use Realistic. It's either all Stages or none, that is the way the Server setup works.

 

[maciejk]

I am getting transmission damage in NO DAMAGE mode right off the start, is this normal? in H pattern 2nd it jumps to 4 then back to 2, and sometimes the engine revs up car dosen't go anywhere, co driver starts talking about the transmission being damaged, i only noticed it recently been playing a while now