RDRC S3 Chat, Questions, Feedback

[Norman Biscuits]

I was referring to the times posted so far this weekend.
But whatevz, I'm not having this discussion in here. It's for Rick to decide.

 

[Erik Tveit]

I was referring to the times posted so far this weekend.
But whatevz, I'm not having this discussion in here. It's for Rick to decide.

I wasn't aiming for a discussion either, just that I wanted to loss less time on the DNF on SS2. ^^

 

[Hubert Smolders]

I can tell you this, if i run that stage like that, Erik, i would be meeting the Grim one in 2 corners time, pretty sure i'm half a minute, maybe a minute slower then that video you just posted. It feels like that dude practiced to perfection for that stage. ^^

 

[Mark Birney]

Kick his ass anyday.

 

[Rick Bamford]

Well, I can't watch the video but I don't think it matters. The fastest time someone can get on a stage shouldn't effect the penalty time given. My personal view is that the penalty should stay at 16 mins. As Senad said, I wanted to make this season that if you retire from one stage you retire from the rally, end of game. My advice as always is don't crash.

HOWEVER, as this was seen as too much we went with the standard penalty for the stages and this one is higher than others (I went throught the results from last season and the highest penalty time is around 12 mins).

Therefore, we will set the penalty time for Limbo at 10mins. Norman, please make it so

 

[Olli Kauppinen]

Thanks, that sounds reasonable. And your advice is good too

 

[Aaron DeMarre]

I am in the "retire from a stage, retire from the rally" camp. 10 min penalty is a slap on the wrist with a wet noodle.

 

[Pete Mull]

I'm with you there Aaron, I nursed my car to the end of that stage in the bad conditions to record a time of 9:46:24. So all I got for that was 15 secs !!!

Not what I would have expected.

 

[Olli Kauppinen]

Yep, there's a point in there too but then it would have to adapt to other stages aswell.. It's pretty stupid that other stages don't give you so much penalty and one will. That's the point here!

 

[Pete Mull]

If you don't record a finish time on a stage then you shouldn't get any time at all, you should get a DNF or a Fail on that stage. You can then still be recorded in the finishers and your times and DNF's counted to your O/A and Class finish. I don't believe that giving competitors artificial times as that only 'colours' the results and penalizes the steady, slower drivers in the O/A results and perhaps class positions.

 

[Olli Kauppinen]

You got a point there, I'd accept that. My point otherwise is that it ain't like that. If someone drives same pace as I did and retires 2 France stages and I retired only one BTB Sweden, that other one would win me in overall results. That's my point! It's ok for me too if DNF is a DNF, in overall result those who managed to "survive" all tracks would be above those with a retire.

 

[Łukasz Demolin]

There was a proposed draft of penalty system that I tried to push before the start of the season, it was dubbed too harsh however.

Short description: you'd get a 10 (or 15, tweakable) min added to your class winner's time for each stage retired. I suggested a loop-based retiring system (so that you get DNF times from the stage you retired on till the service) as well, to make it harsher than now, but not as harsh as "one DNF kills all" scenario, but that's not the point of discussion here .

If there's more support for that system now (as we see more fresher drivers talking about it now, the one's that many of veterans were concerned about) maybe we could see something like that introduced in future seasons. Speak your mind.

 

[Senad Subasic]

I think I dubbed it too complicated to do, at that point I was still doing the results. But now that Norman's in charge, it's starting to look good to me :tongue:

 

[Nigel Atkins]

There was a proposed draft of penalty system that I tried to push before the start of the season, it was dubbed too harsh however.

Short description: you'd get a 10 (or 15, tweakable) min added to your class winner's time for each stage retired. I suggested a loop-based retiring system (so that you get DNF times from the stage you retired on till the service) as well, to make it harsher than now, but not as harsh as "one DNF kills all" scenario, but that's not the point of discussion here .

If there's more support for that system now (as we see more fresher drivers talking about it now, the one's that many of veterans were concerned about) maybe we could see something like that introduced in future seasons. Speak your mind.

with that kind of time penalty system, 1 dnf could total ruin your rally so wheres the incentive to continue? may as well just dnf from the whole rally.

so that gets a big thumbs down from me

 

[Łukasz Demolin]

But that's not the rally way. A DNF should mean you are essentially out of (at least) the points. The only way you can make up ground is by other people's mistakes. That's why SupeRally system gets so much flak (and that's why I was utterly pissed at Loeb's good result in Poland 2009).

You continue to practice, have fun, compare with other people and maybe get some stagewins. Also, if we combined it with two-day system (bonus points for day 2) you could still fight for some points.

I finally managed to word correctly Warren's "in rally one mistake can cost you entire rally" thought some time ago. Yes, in racing when you spin you can often kiss a good position goodbye. But if really pushing in rallying one wrongly aimed slide might mean way more than couple positions lost. That's how it always been and that's why it's a so amazing discipline. And it's hard to make up ground with a "Colin style" car

 

[Ondrej Kapal]

with this kept in mind you should be more aware of your driving style, to avoid retirements... its about psychology, now 1, 2 retires means loss but not as big as it should be... if we would have this rule in apply, your brain starts to work differently what is more, its bigger challenge and wins will be more exclusive

 

[Olli Kauppinen]

I'd put my vote to system that puts DNF as DNF, where anyone that would complete whole rally would be at top, 1 DNF next, 2 DNF next etc. Only minus at that system would be that it would be advantage to crash at longer stage for those who would DNF at one stage

 

[Łukasz Demolin]

I wanted to essentially emulate this type of solution by initially proposing not 10, but 30-minute penalty for a DNF . That would virtually sort the field by itself, without any additional work needed when compiling the results.

 

[Ondrej Kapal]

or using system retirement from a stage = DNF in the whole event

 

[Rick Bamford]

with that kind of time penalty system, 1 dnf could total ruin your rally so wheres the incentive to continue? may as well just dnf from the whole rally.

so that gets a big thumbs down from me

The incentive to continue should be that you enjoy driving the game and want to finish the stages. This argument has never made sence to me. I

have made no secret about wanting the 1 DNF = DNF from the rally however, before we put that system (or any harsher system than the current one) in place we would need a CLEAR indication from MOST of the signed up drivers saying thats what they wanted.

I will be putting out a questionaire (as I did after the first season) to get feed back for improvements for season 4. I'll include something about it in that.