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Race #8, USA-Indy: Post-Race Checks

Discussion in 'Formula SimRacing' started by Kris Cobb, Sep 8, 2014.

  1. Kris Cobb

    Kris Cobb
    Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal

    Post-Race Checks

    Alvaro Torres (1.75)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: -1.50 Penalty Points and +15 second penalty for Incident #6.

    Borja Garcia (4.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:

    Chris de Jong (1.50)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: Official Warning for Incident #1. -1.50 Penalty Points for Incident #2. Back of Grid, Feature Race Round 9, for Incident #2.

    Daniel Kiss (4.75)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:

    Daniel Bida (4.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: No Logs
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: Disqualified for no logs, Feature and Sprint.

    Danny van der Niet (4.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:

    Giordano Valeriano (1.75)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: -0.50 Penalty Points for Incident #3. -1.50 Penalty Points for Incident #4.

    Jiri Toman (5.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:

    Jonny Simon (3.50)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:

    Marco Conti (1.25)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:

    Martin Hodas (5.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:

    Muhammed Patel (4.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:

    Norbert Leitner (5.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:

    Peter Helmbro (4.50)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:

    Renan Lopes (3.50)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:

    Sebastian Dunkel (4.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:

    Thomas Mundy (5.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:

    Thomas Satherley (5.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty:
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014
  2. Kris Cobb

    Kris Cobb
    Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal

    Incidents

    Before going straight to the incidents verdicts take into account that there has been some rule changes this year regarding the penalty system and it may seem that penalties are harsher than previous years.

    This year with the introduction of the Safety Rating value every driver gets 0.25 SR for aclean race (2 Races per Weekend).
    That means that if a driver has a penalty of 1.5 penalty points he will be able to recover those penalty points doing 6 clean races (3 Race Weekends) while the previous years the driver had to do 5 consecutive clean races (5 Weekends) in order to “erase” his penalty points.

    Incident #1
    Driver(s) Involved Martin Hodás, Chris de Jong
    Lap/Replay Time Lap 9 Q1 0:06
    Protest Description Jong desperately trying to start one more lap before end of Q1 session. While Hodas was in hotlap, de Jong remained in less than 1 sec during whole Hodas´ lap, resulting in time loss.
    Verdict de Jong does not cause considerable time loss.
    Server Log, Chris de Jong:
    <Lap num="9" p="14" et="547.2096" fuel="0.020" fcompound="2,Super Soft" rcompound="2,Super Soft">--.----</Lap>

    de Jong started his lap and had not enough time to even start a hot lap. Official Warning, be aware others are on hot laps.

    Also, wrecking on purpose after ANY SESSION is not acceptable. This will be enforced the rest of the season with a Race Ban (see Marek Godek's ban, Incident #13)

    1.16
    After crossing the finish line, the drivers can drive a parade lap back to the pits or press ESC as soon as they want. Drivers are not allowed to crash in to other cars or walls while celebrating/mourning the happenings of the race.


    You guys are professionals. Lets act like it.


    Incident #2
    Driver(s) Involved Chris de Jong, Daniel Bida
    Lap/Replay Time Race 1 Lap 5
    Protest Description i was behind , surely i understand he had a damaged car , and i decided to keep going on the racing line as its the logic thing to do , despite him whobble. and he spun into me while keeping apply the throttle he had all left side off track to slow and get back to the pits. i have seen De-Jong on board footage . first , he had like 2 corners before realize his car in troubles , and more important , he didnt slow down at all before he started to spin in the back-straight, but only after.
    Verdict -1.5pp De Jong for causing avoidable collision leading to DNF of Bida. Back of Grid for Round 9 Feature Race.

    Incident #3
    Driver(s) Involved Jiri Toman, Giordano Valeriano
    Lap/Replay Time Race 1 Lap 7, 0:06
    Protest Description Jiri is trying to attack on the inside but Valeriano leaves no space while braking and colides with Jiri.
    Verdict 6.2 c) You are not allowed to change your line at all when you are alongside another car. Alongside means any part of the other car is alongside ANY part of your car. Even if the other driver has only got his front-wing in front of your rear wing, you are not allowed to block.
    Valeriano turns into the corner on the normal line while Toman has his nose alongside. -0.5pp to Valeriano.

    Incident #4
    Driver(s) Involved Jiri Toman, Giordano Valeriano
    Lap/Replay Time Race 1 Lap 11, 0:06
    Protest Description Valeriano outbrakes himself and runs straight into Jiri which resulted in losing 2 positions.
    Verdict Valeriano runs wide in braking, continues over the grass back to racing line without braking, makes contact resulting in spin and loss of positions for Toman. -1.5pp to Valeriano

    Incident #5
    Driver(s) Involved Alvaro Torres, Martin Hodas
    Lap/Replay Time Race 2 Lap 19 0:04
    Protest Description Alvaro started his maneuver and at the same time Hodas moves to the right doing a late defend.
    Verdict Hodas defends in time before they are beside each other. No further action.

    Incident #6
    Driver(s) Involved Martin Hodás, Alvaro Torres
    Lap/Replay Time Race 2 Lap 19 0:05
    Protest Description Torres is overtaking Hodas. Then he is trying to get better line by moving more to the inside. Caused contact with Hodas, who hitted the wall resulting in lost position and major suspension damage - almost undriveable car.
    Verdict Torres comes alongside Hodas and proceeds to move to the left to get a better line. This causes a collision with Hodas. -1.5 Penalty Points for Torres. Torres makes an error later in the lap, allowing Hodas to retake the position so no need for additional penalties. +15 Second Penalty.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  3. [​IMG]
    Well, its not as bad this time, but let me point few little things...

    #1 - As I said in description, when de Jong left the pit lane, he was whole lap in less than 1 sec infront of me during my last Q hotlap (3rd attempt), and I had no chance to improve my lap.
    That crash behind f/s line wasnt main problem. I protested that lap before...

    #2 - "Torres makes an error later in the lap, allowing Hodas to retake the position so no need for additional penalties."
    Torres didnt make an error, he was pushing whole last 3 laps to the finish, while I was fighting with heavily damaged car. So I lost my 8th position.

    Where did you get information, that Torres alowed me to retake my position??
     
  4. Awesome, -1.5 points for just a stupid incident.

    I can't do this right now but I would like to record it and ask to rest of drivers if Hodas move is legal. You penalized the driver who just tried to avoid the accident and forgived the one who was looking his mirrors trying to catch me and cause an accident. By the way, I didn't make any error after the crash, you just invented that.
     
  5. Kris Cobb

    Kris Cobb
    Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal

     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. :roflmao: Did he like disappear off of your screen or something? Because on the broadcast he was clearly to your left, and he kept left, and you just decided to whack straight into him while he kept his line.
     
  7. Kris Cobb

    Kris Cobb
    Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal

    And he has a right to make it to the line before the time ends. As I said he was far enough to where I don't feel he affected you that much.

    I will double check this.
     
  8. Thx
     
  9. Guys may I kindly ask you to watch the white line on the right and the position of Alvaro's car. Thank you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Good point. The white line is at a few degrees to the left angle at that point, showing even more clearly how he was moving to the left.
     
  11. Kris Cobb

    Kris Cobb
    Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal

    Incident #6 Updated.
    +15 second Penalty added.

    The spin I saw was after the checkered flag, I mistook that as the last lap.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. It's noy easy for me seeing if im moving to the left because Indy's straight is peculiar, like Victor said. He had more chances to avoid the incident than me, at least the same.

    Anyway, penalty is disproportionate IMO.
     
  13. SR Rating

    Repairs Needed: No

    Time Lost Evaluation: Rest of The Race -> More than 5 seconds.

    Guilty Driver Scored Points: Yes -> -0.50 SR + 5 to 30 seconds added to the driver's final race time.

    Penalty applied: 1.5 SR + 15 sec added to the driver's final race time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. The track surface itself even shows if you are driving in a straight line or not. Like shown in the video.
     
  15. Kris Cobb

    Kris Cobb
    Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal

    @Alvaro Torres
    How can you agree with that post but think the penalty I applied is disproportionate? The only difference is 1 PP. Carlos is saying you should have 1 PP less, but the 15 second penalty is well deserved. You are a decently clean driver, with only 3 out of 12 races "not clean" so there should be no real risk to your Safety Rating for the season. I don't get your reasoning.

    I don't use that SR Guide.
     
  16. Then why other drivers takes 0.25 SR (Or 0.5 SR per GP) if you aren't using SR System.

    When I don't use the SR system I fully justify why. If you say the only difference its 1.0 SR... 1.0 SR its quite a lot.

    Im still asking myself, why 1.5? Did he lost the front wing? Did he lost any postion apart the one from Álvaro? Was he forced to pit? Terminal damage?

    The SR Rating is really important for the drivers, mainly because if they have none they can't race :)

    And I still didn't finish with this...

    Just to show you how much your penalties makes sense, if Hodas didn't lose the position he would have less penalty for the same action?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. 1 penalty point is enough to consider if penalty is fair or not. After reading last posts, now I don't care about my penalty, I've just seen that you have a serious criterion problem.

    Overall and especially after Jim's penalty I perceive that rules are not important in FSR. You can have another point of view on a particular incident, I can understant it, but rules are rules and you have to respect it. I'm not blaming only Cobb, I think that Race Director system should change slightly, because just one person is not enough to properly punish all race incidents, even more when this person could have particular interests or just is not ready to do this job alone. Of course is just my opinion but I think that 2 or 3 persons would do a better and more objective work.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. Yes? Who?
     
  19. Kris Cobb

    Kris Cobb
    Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal

    I didn't say I don't use the SR system, I don't use that SR Guide. Of course I have been using the SR system all season.

    Of course... if he did not lose the position I would not have gave Torres a time penalty. Hodas ended up with a damaged car, something that could have effected his race worse. The SR Guide YOU AND EDUARD both use even says that.
     
  20. Kris Cobb

    Kris Cobb
    Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal

    17.3
    Penalties will be administered following the Penalty Guidelines, but these are intended as guidelines only. In the end, the Race Director will be responsible of reviewing each incident independently.

    I saw your move as dangerous and a somewhat severe incident. To me, you fully deserve the penalties I gave you. If this was earlier in the race Hodas, with a damaged car, could have lost even more positions.

    6.2 (c)
    You are not allowed to change your line at all when you are alongside another car. Alongside means any part of the other car is alongside ANY part of your car. Even if the other driver has only got his front-wing in front of your rear wing, you are not allowed to block