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Race #6, United Kingdom: Post-Race Checks

Discussion in 'Formula SimRacing' started by Kris Cobb, Jul 9, 2014.

  1. Kris Cobb

    Kris Cobb
    Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal

    Post-Race Checks

    Alex Diaz (3.75)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: -1.50 PP for Incident #6.

    Alvaro Torres (3.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: 2 x Official Warnings for Incident #4. 30 Second time penalty for Feature Race. 30 second time penalty for Sprint Race.

    Artyom Aslamazyan (5.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: NA

    Danny van der Niet (3.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: 2 x Official Warnings for Incident #5. 30 second penalty for Feature Race and 30 second penalty for Sprint Race for Incident #5.

    Gennaro Celiento (2.50)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: NA

    Giordano Valeriano (3.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: NA

    Giuseppe Marconi (5.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: NA

    Jiri Toman (5.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: NA

    Jonny Simon (5.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: NA

    Marco Conti (0.25)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: -1.00 PP for Incident #7. Drive through Penalty at Next Race for Incident #8.

    Marek Godek (0.50)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: +30 Second Time Penalty for Feature Race and Official Warning for Incident #2.

    Martin Hodas (5.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: NA

    Norbert Leitner (4.25)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: 2 x Official Warnings for Incident #3. 30 Second Penalty, Sprint Race, for Incident #3.

    Patrik Holzmann (2.25)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Not Used
    Launch Control R2: Not Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: Official Warning for not using Launch Control (last warning, next time DQ)(Penalty will start at Germany). 2 x Official Warnings for Cutting/Extending Track for Incident #1. Disqualified, Sprint Race for Incident #1. -1.50 PP for Incident #9.

    Thomas Satherley (5.00)
    Q1: Clean
    Q2: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control R1: Used
    Launch Control R2: Used
    Pitstop: Clean
    Tire Rules: Fulfilled
    Penalty: NA
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
  2. Kris Cobb

    Kris Cobb
    Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal

    Incidents

    Before going straight to the incidents verdicts take into account that there has been some rule changes this year regarding the penalty system and it may seem that penalties are harsher than previous years.

    This year with the introduction of the Safety Rating value every driver gets 0.25 SR for aclean race (2 Races per Weekend).
    That means that if a driver has a penalty of 1.5 penalty points he will be able to recover those penalty points doing 6 clean races (3 Race Weekends) while the previous years the driver had to do 5 consecutive clean races (5 Weekends) in order to “erase” his penalty points.

    A lesson on track boundaries:
    Warnings were handed out to cutters, whether or not the 101.5% rule was met.

    For incidents 1-5, the first 'y' or 'n' is if a cut happened, then time, then if the cut counted (due to time, 101.5% rule). The sX-x:xx:xxx times are the best stint times.

    Incident #1
    Driver(s) Involved Patrik Holzmann
    Lap/Replay Time Cutting
    Protest Description
    CUTS R1: 1:35.002 1.36.427
    Lap 7 – T9 Copse y 1:35.288
    Lap 11 – T15 Stowe n
    Lap 11 – T18 y 1.35.989
    Lap 14 – T9 y inlap
    Lao 14 – T14 Becketts n/a already cut on same lap
    Lap 14 – T15 Stowe n/a already cut on same lap
    Verdict: 3 cuts, -10% cut, No Penalty. Official Warning.
    CUTS R2: s1-1:34.634 1.36.054
    Lap 1 – T14 Chapel y outlap
    Lap 1 – T15 Stowe n/a already cut on same lap
    Lap 4 – T9 Copse y 1:35.230
    Lap 5 – T9 Copse y 1:35.917
    Lap 8 – T9 Copse y 1:35.372
    Lap 11 – T15 Stowe y 1:36.165 not below time
    Lap 13 – T9 y 1:35.991
    Lap 13 – T15 n/a already cut on same lap
    Verdict: 5 cuts, +30% cut, Disqualified from Sprint Race. Official Warning.

    Incident #2
    Driver(s) Involved Marek Godek
    Lap/Replay Time Cutting
    Protest Description
    CUTS R1: s1-1:35.849 s2-1:35.505 s3-1:34.713
    Lap 1 - T9 Copse y outlap
    Lap 5 - T9 Copse y 1:36.100 1.37.287
    Lap 10 - T9 Copse y 1:35.237 1.36.937
    Lap 13 - T9 Copse y 1:35.708
    Lap 18 - T9 Copse y 1:38.043 n
    Lap 19 - T15 Stowe y inlap
    Lap 22 - T9 Copse y 1:35.657 1.36.134
    Verdict: 6 cuts, +10% cut, +30 second Penalty. Official Warning.

    Incident #3
    Driver(s) Involved Norbert Leitner
    Lap/Replay Time Cutting
    Protest Description
    CUTS R1: s1-1:35.504 s2-1:35.198
    Lap 11 - T9 Copse y 1.37.124 1.36.936
    Lap 12 - T9 Copse y 1.38.731
    Lap 15 - T9 Copse n
    Lap 17 - T9 Copse y 1.36.489 1.36.626
    Lap 19 - T9 Copse y 1.35.537
    Verdict: 2 cuts, -10% cut, No Penalty. Official Warning.
    CUTS R2: s1-1:34.742
    Lap 1 - T9 Copse y outlap
    Lap 2 - T15 Stowe y 1.36.217 1.36.163 n
    Lap 8 – T9 y 1.35.510
    Lap 8 – T15 n/a already cut on same lap
    Verdict: 2 cuts, +10% cut, +30 second Penalty. Official Warning.

    Incident #4
    Driver(s) Involved Alvaro Torres
    Lap/Replay Time Cutting
    Protest Description
    CUTS R1: s3-1:35.570
    Lap 16 - T9 Copse y outlap 1.37.003
    Lap 17 - T9 Copse y 1:35.516
    Lap 18 - T9 Copse y 1:35.533
    Lap 19 - T18 Club y 1:37.522 n
    Lap 22 - T9 Copse y 1:35.422
    Verdict: 4 cuts, +10% cut, +30 second Penalty. Official Warning.
    CUTS R2: s1-1:34.742
    Lap 5 – T9 Copse y 1:35.944 1.36.163
    Lap 9 – T15 Stowe y 1:35.096
    Verdict: 2 cuts, +10% cut, +30 second Penalty. Official Warning.

    Incident #5
    Driver(s) Involved Danny Van der Niet
    Lap/Replay Time Cutting
    Protest Description
    CUTS R1: s1-1:36.160 s2-1:34.582
    Lap 1 - T9 Copse y outlap 1.37.602
    Lap 6 - T9 Copse y 1:36.298
    Lap 10 - T15 Stowe y 1:36.749
    Lap 13 - T9 Copse y outlap 1.36.001
    Lap 18 - T9 Copse y 1:35.858
    Lap 27 - T9 Copse y 1:36.244 n
    Lap 30 – T9 y 1:38.xxx n
    Lap 30 – T15 n/a already cut on same lap
    Verdict: 5 cuts, +10% cut, +30 second penalty. Official Warning.
    CUTS R2: s1-1:34.658
    Lap 3 - T9 Copse y 1:34.867 1.36.078
    Lap 7 - T9 Copse y 1:36.065
    Verdict: 2 cuts, +10% cut, +30 second penalty. Official Warning.

    Incident #6
    Driver(s) Involved Martin Hodas, Alex Diaz
    Lap/Replay Time R1 - Lap 4 – Turn 6
    Protest Description Diaz spun, and started accelerate right at moment when Hodas was next to him. Hodas lost front wing, had to do one more pitstop with 20sec of length, had suspension damage for rest of the race.
    Verdict: Diaz does not respect right of way of oncoming cars and moves out into the racing line. Contact causes time loss, loss of wing and time lost in pits. -1.5 PP for Diaz.


    Incident #7
    Driver(s) Involved Jiri Toman, Marco Conti
    Lap/Replay Time R1 - Lap 5 – T6 – 0:26
    Protest Description Conti closed doors on Toman and forced him to back out of it to avoid further contact and an accident leaving Toman unable to fight for the position.
    Verdict: Conti tries to push Toman off the track, causing contact. -1.00 PP for Conti. Drivers must leave room once the other driver is beside of them.


    Incident #8
    Driver(s) Involved Jiri Toman, Marco Conti
    Lap/Replay Time R1 - Lap 13 – Pits – 1:24
    Protest Description Conti completely misses the braking point, hits Toman causing damage.
    Verdict: Conti causes contact in the pit lane. This may have causes damage that effected car for the rest of the race. Drive through Penalty at Germany for careless driving. Race ban too harsh since he retired at Silverstone.
    From the General Rules Document:
    2.6 General careless or disruptive driving or behavior - Race Ban Penalty


    Incident #9
    Driver(s) Involved Jiri Toman, Patrik Holzmann
    Lap/Replay Time R2 - Lap 14 – T3,T4
    Protest Description Holzmann pushes Toman completely off the track even when leaving the door wide open. Patrik closes the door in the next turn causing Toman to spin and losing 3 positions.
    Verdict: Holzmann causes Toman to run off track. He then turns-in to the corner too soon, causing both drivers to spin and lose positions. -1.50 PP for Holzmann.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
  3. What we can say... I accept there is 101.5% rule. But why they got only +10 sec instead of +30 sec penalty as is stated in rules???

    And also, Conti has safety ratin 1.0 since Canada. Now he has 0.25 (only cos nobody protested R2), and he still havent back of the grid penalty for it, as is stated in rules too. Why we have these rules if what is written does not apply??
     
  4. sorry, what? 30 seconds for 2 cuts? :D even the 10 second penalty is way too harsh for 2 and 3 cuts...
     
  5. If driver has up to 10% illegal cut laps - no actions
    If driver has more than 10% illegal cut laps - +30 sec race time penalty
    If driver has more than 20% illegal cut laps - +60 sec race time penalty
    If driver has more than 30% illegal cut laps - DQ


    I agree, but its in the rules. If we want different penalties for 30/60% races, it should be defined separately for Ace/Pro
     
  6. Im in FSR only recently but Precision is unsympathetic to me already :O_o:
     
  7. 2.13 When a driver reaches beneath 1.0 [Safety Rating] they will receive a back of the grid penalty for the following event.
    Conti has 0.25, yet he receives only Drive Through Penalty for Incident 8.

    Now to the cuts:
    2.9 A cut lap shouldn't bring an advantage or the same time as an average race lap without a cut. A cut
    lap will be considered illegal if that lap is faster than 101.5% of the fastest clean lap of the stint the
    cut happened in. If a cut is made during a pit-in or -outlap, that lap will automatically be considered
    a cut lap, regardless of the laptime.

    1) If driver has up to 10% illegal cut laps - no actions
    2) If driver has more than 10% illegal cut laps - +30 sec race time penalty
    3) If driver has more than 20% illegal cut laps - +60 sec race time penalty
    4) If driver has more than 30% illegal cut laps - DQ


    As most of the incidents were judged wrongly, I made a new list of cuts. As you can see, I added the 101,5% time to every stint of every driver who was judged wrongly so it is clear to see if it is cut or not. I demand rejudging the incidents as well as the penalties itself.

    Holzmann
    CUTS R2: s1-1:34.634 101.5%: 1:36.053
    Lap 1 – T14 Chapel OUTLAP- CUT
    Lap 1 – T15 Stowe OUTLAP- CUT
    Lap 4 – T9 Copse 1:35.230 CUT
    Lap 5 – T9 Copse 1:35.917 CUT
    Lap 8 – T9 Copse 1:35.372 CUT
    Lap 11 – T15 Stowe 1:36.165 OUT OF 101,5%
    Lap 13 – T9 1:35.990 CUT
    Right Verdict: 6 cuts (37.5% cut laps) - DQ

    Leitner:
    CUTS R2: s1-1:34.742 101.5%: 1:36.163
    Lap 1 - T9 Copse OUTLAP - CUT
    Lap 2 - T15 Stowe 1:36.216 OUT OF 101,5%
    Lap 8 – T9 1:35.509 CUT
    Right Verdict: 2 cuts (12.5% cut laps)- 30sec penalty


    Alvaro Torres
    CUTS R1: s2-1:34.404 s3-1:35.570 101.5%: s2: 1:35.820 s3: 1:37.003
    Lap 16 - T9 Copse OUTLAP - CUT
    Lap 17 - T9 Copse y 1:35.516 CUT
    Lap 18 - T9 Copse y 1:35.533 CUT
    Lap 19 - T18 Club y 1:37.522 OUT OF 101,5%
    Lap 22 - T9 Copse y 1:35.422 CUT
    Right Verdict: 4 cuts (13% cut laps) - 30sec penalty


    Danny van der Niet
    CUTS R1: s1-1:36.159 s2-1:34.582 101.5%: s1: 1:37.601 s2: 1:36.000
    Lap 1 - T9 Copse OUTLAP - CUT
    Lap 6 - T9 Copse y 1:36.298 CUT
    Lap 10 - T15 Stowe y 1:36.749 CUT
    Lap 13 - T9 Copse OUTLAP - CUT
    Lap 18 - T9 Copse y 1:35.858 CUT
    Lap 27 - T9 Copse y 1:36.244 OUT OF 101,5%
    Lap 30 – T9 y 1:38.xxx OUT OF 101,5%
    Right Verdict: 5 cuts (16% cut laps) - 30 sec penalty

    CUTS R2: s1-1:34.658 101.5%: 1:36.078
    Lap 3 - T9 Copse y 1:34.867 CUT
    Lap 7 - T9 Copse y 1:36.065 CUT
    Right Verdict: 2 cuts (12.5% cut laps) - 30 sec penalty
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  8. guess why...
    Its awkward for me to complain after every race here, but there is no other way how to get proper decissions
     
  9. And you forgot the last one
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. Kris Cobb

    Kris Cobb
    Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal

    Conti and Godek have Back of Grid at Germany / next race. This is in the Penalty thread because not a direct result of any of the Incidents above but as a whole over the season.
    In other words, the verdict did not result in a start from pits, but rather his safety rating dipping below 1.00.

    http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/ace-2014-penalties-and-safety-rating.13686/

    Toman, not sure where you are getting your times from.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  11. Kris Cobb

    Kris Cobb
    Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal

    My apologies it should be +30 seconds.

    Penalties updated.
     
  12. What is wrong about that? Obviously the gap disappears because he is continuously closing in on me. He divebombed me and pushed me off the track. What more could I have done in this situation.. he closed the doors and got penalty for that.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwzh5jwy937utqq/contact.png
     
  13. 2.13 When a driver reaches beneath 1.0 [Safety Rating] they will receive a back of the grid penalty for
    the following event.

    I should start from the back of the grid, not from the Pit. Are you a bit confused or you just add this penalty 5 minutes ago?
    Also, let others help you in public to take decision and change the verdict of penalty is not actually really fair. I never complained so far for you decisions and verdicts, but giving me 1 SR point for incident #7 is not fair I think. I had massive lag and syncro problem, is pretty obvious if you watch at the replay. I closed the door simply cause I knew Toman was 2 second behind me, not 2 tenths...If I have someone behind of 2 seconds I don't usually pay attention at my mirrors, sorry about that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Im 3/4 car length ahead , im allowed to turn in.
     
    • Haha Haha x 1
  15. The first part is Patrik's fault yes (pushing you wide), but that screenshot doesn't tell much due to cam position + FOV.

    In the attached screenshot you can see where are Patrik's front tires pointing to, and how there was enough space for both cars. Not much space, but enough, like Bono did here with Morgan at 0:02
    Your car was also sliding, so you weren't in full control of the car...
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Kris Cobb

    Kris Cobb
    Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal

    Yes Back of Grid. Updated.

    Massive Lag and syncro problems if you knew this you should have left more room.
     
  17. I was absolutely in full control of the car, I was just trying to brake and avoid the contact which was impossible anyway. Of course at that particular moment the screenshot shows there was enough space but a tenth after that there was not any.

    Are you serious? It is not about some 3/4 length ahead.. my front wing was on the same level as your rear wheels so you had absolutely no right to turn in.
     
  18. No you arent, before the contact you were going a bit sideways as we can see here.



    And we can also see that judging Patrik's corner radius, there was space all the time. Tight but enough.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. Thanks for the video David , that was clearly not 100% my fault.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. How could I knew that...? When you had that the only thing you can see is the car behind you disappear, not your one slow down. I didn't close the door I repeat, I just did my line like I would do alone..Do you still think is a "bad behaviour on track that may cause a 1SR penalty"?