Race #6, Austria: Checks Post-Race

[Ho3n3r]

i find it amazing to report a driver for cutting the track who had the whole race ridiculous problems to stay in that track. It's not like i drove to fast through the corner. In 80% of those cuts my rear was gone and i was forced to drive outside the corner. But keep doing those silly protests. And it probably was one of the drivers who cutted like 20times in china. Luckily no one got a penatly for that. Be happy.

I protested that. You didn't follow the rules, simple as. Don't blame others. I do my best to stay within the rules, so why should I just allow a free-for-all if you can't obey them?

And you'll be lucky if you find 20 cuts in my whole FSR career, never mind just at China.

I even urge you to check every lap of mine for the rest of the season, and I will take my punishment like a man, because unlike you I believe in fairness.

PS: ACR lost a 1-2 at China because of even less cutting than yours, but cutting nonetheless. Both drivers sucked it up, and learnt from their mistakes. You can either do the same, or keep blaming others for costing yourself time, as this is 100% your own fault and nobody else's.

 

[Paschalis Gkergkis]

Welcome to FSR Pro where enthusiasts spend their time protesting a guy in p13.

The rule about cutting has to be changed. I got +30seconds twice in my carrer because I lost the rear and caught it too quick in some laps, and it's like totally same as going a little wide on purpose and gaining time...
Making mistake+running wide is itself a big enough penalty. And it's really not difficult to see if the cut was due to a big moment or due to lazy steering and too high speed.

I never check for cutting, I trust my fellow racers that they drive fair, and I don't want them getting penalties for their mistakes in 10% of laps.

I even feel bad about protesting dangerous driving (like in austria when I lost the lead) as I know it wasn't on purpose.

Me and Michi lost the 1-2 in ACE in China because we had 1 or 2 more cut laps because we "lost our rear" and had 3 wheels off-track.We didn't came with any excuse, just dealed with it cause others followed the rules and we did not. Simple as that. It can get cruel if you don't follow them but they are very clear.

 

[Georg Winter]

If you loose your rear and you`re extending while that several times, you should drive a bit slower and not that much on the curb. When you dont go that wide, you can loose your rear whenever you want

 

[Andrew Pienaar]

And if you have no front, no rear and suspension damage push

 

[Dmitry Zaharov]

i find it amazing to report a driver for cutting the track who had the whole race ridiculous problems to stay in that track. It's not like i drove to fast through the corner. In 80% of those cuts my rear was gone and i was forced to drive outside the corner. But keep doing those silly protests. And it probably was one of the drivers who cutted like 20times in china. Luckily no one got a penatly for that. Be happy.

If you cut simply back off to not be inside 101%

 

[Jernej Simončič]

It just seems to me more and more that the rule should be looked into.
Really, again, I lose the rear unexpectedly, and then I should even back off? I'm here to push the car to the limit all the time. If a rule makes me to lose 1 second on purpose, it's a bad rule.

"You should drive a bit slower" Obviously I'll be more careful next time I come around the lap, but the car catches you unexpecting sometimes and the heart attack that you get is enough of a problem. I don't deserve being treated like I did a cut on purpose.

Rules are here to serve us and in this case it seems quite obvious to me that our beloved cutting rule doesn't make us race better.

 

[ChazmR]

It just seems to me more and more that the rule should be looked into.
Really, again, I lose the rear unexpectedly, and then I should even back off? I'm here to push the car to the limit all the time. If a rule makes me to lose 1 second on purpose, it's a bad rule.

"You should drive a bit slower" Obviously I'll be more careful next time I come around the lap, but the car catches you unexpecting sometimes and the heart attack that you get is enough of a problem. I don't deserve being treated like I did a cut on purpose.

Rules are here to serve us and in this case it seems quite obvious to me that our beloved cutting rule doesn't make us race better.

You aint pushing the car to the limit if you are track extending. You are going past the limit. The rules are there and you should follow them just like everyone else does. You cant start allowing people to extend because they lost time, thats irrelevant if you go past the white lines then you are outside the track limits. As i said previously, If it was gravel there would you go wide? No you wouldn't. Stop complaining and how about tell your drivers to stay within track limits next time and they wont get penalties? Easy solution.

 

[Georg Winter]

Really, again, I lose the rear unexpectedly, and then I should even back off? I'm here to push the car to the limit all the time. If a rule makes me to lose 1 second on purpose, it's a bad rule.

1. Always let some margin for errors
2. If you would go to some gravel, you would even loose more than 1sec. Tarmac runoffs are for safety reason in real life. I dont think we have that problem in Sim Racing like somebody already said.
3. If you would go to Monaco with this attitude, it would be a very short race.
4. Not the rule is making you 1sec slower. Its your own mistake going above the limit

 

[Chris de Jong]

1. Always let some margin for errors
2. If you would go to some gravel, you would even loose more than 1sec. Tarmac runoffs are for safety reason in real life. I dont think we have that problem in Sim Racing like somebody already said.
3. If you would go to Monaco with this attitude, it would be a very short race.
4. Not the rule is making you 1sec slower. Its your own mistake going above the limit

i could not agree less with you

 

[Georg Winter]

but you have no explanation why you disagree...
but thanks for quoting my post and giving it more attention. Because everybody should follow it and driving at the limit WITHIN in the track limits.

 

[Chris de Jong]

want an explenation?
a racing driver is always looking for the limit at any time and rather steps over it if he or she knows
that he or she will get away with it.
T1 in Ausstria is a nice example, run wide there and you would lose at least a second since the nature of the kerbs so nobody in any races took any severe risks on that corner.
T7 in ausstria you would easily get away with running wide so naturally almost everyone did at one
stage in the race.
My point is that if you are a racing driver you always want to be the fastest possible and that means going to the limit. Once you stop doing that you just become another de Jong in the pack.

 

[Georg Winter]

But your explanation only prove my points. The limit is: be as fast as possible on the track and not on AND off the track.
The nature of T1 is, that you loose many time when you go wide, so people are more careful. I agree. At T7 people should be careful because they get punished by rule for going wide. So why dont be same careful at T7 and T1? At both you loose 1sec. At T1 by track and at T7 by rules

 

[Mike Partington]

I think some of you guys are kinda missing the point. We all know that you should stay inside the rules that much is clear but does the punishment really fit the crime with the current rules? We are not megastar racers and even they make mistakes.

There are times you can actually cut/extend and lose time and then still get punished further for it with 30 seconds. If I was to change something it would be by sector and not lap and there would be a difference between a major cut and a minor cut instead of them been given as if they were the same.

 

[David O'Reilly]

In my opinion the track limits in FSR are already so generous that a lap can look quite silly compared to real life. When a car is taking a corner with only his inside unweighted wheels on the rumble strip and everything else off the racing surface.

If we permit a racing style where the whole car and no wheels from time to time at all are even touching the racing surface (including the rumble strip) it just moves a very finite and objective limit and replaces it with a very nebulous and hard to define limit.
If for example "I lost my rear and cos I was on the limit" means your whole car can be 15 feet from the track and thats ok cos it was accidental where do we go with it? How is it policed? Do we start with 18 cuts, then ask which ones were a mistake and which one were deliberate and naughty? Do we ask for telemetry and get the Race director to compare the telemetry on the various laps or use an honor system to decide which were errors? Do we have a big debate over a cut that was allowed in round 1 due to a driver saying it was accidental but a similar cut in round 5 from another driver got penalised?

The in lap out lap cuts where a driver totally loses control of the car or has to take action to avoid an accident and without doubt loses time into the bargain should be somehow reviewed with some common sense before they are counted as cuts.
But in a racing lap where a car leaves the racing surface in the pusuit of speed its a cut. We are all driving on the same racing surface and have the same limitations. We are allowed 10% cuts without penalty. If you go over that you need to acknowledge the error which means lift and ensure you are 1.5% slower than your best lap. This proves that the cut did not give you advantage.
If you are constantly cutting "in the search for the limits" you have exceeded them.
Its not enough to say "thats my job I'm a racer". We all need to find speed within the same limits. The car needs to stay on the track.
The idea is not to cut at all. We get 10% of laps just to give a margin for error. Go over that and you are abusing track limits-simple.
If outside the rumble strip was gravel every where would we use it? No so its an approach not an unavoidable consequence.

 

[Dmitry Zaharov]

The point is that if one wants to push it above the limit then someone else will go offtrack to do the same. Everybody will make it's own track and this will be mess. If your backend goes lose simply change the setup, add rearwing etc to make car stay on track. Don't make silly excuses, everybody is driving same track and only minor percent have problems staying within rules.

 

[Chris de Jong]

well spoken David.
I think as long as racing isnt done in monaco were you would have physical barriers instead of kerbs then there will always be cuts but thats the point of being a driver as well, searching for the limit.

 

[Ho3n3r]

It just seems to me more and more that the rule should be looked into.
Really, again, I lose the rear unexpectedly, and then I should even back off? I'm here to push the car to the limit all the time. If a rule makes me to lose 1 second on purpose, it's a bad rule.

"You should drive a bit slower" Obviously I'll be more careful next time I come around the lap, but the car catches you unexpecting sometimes and the heart attack that you get is enough of a problem. I don't deserve being treated like I did a cut on purpose.

Rules are here to serve us and in this case it seems quite obvious to me that our beloved cutting rule doesn't make us race better.

So let's put a wall there and see how you crap yourself then. The rule is there to force you to keep wihin track limits, not necessarily to prevent you to gain time only. And if you do it enough to have to start slowing down 1 second ( > 10% of laps) then perhaps you need to start looking at either your setup, or your composure, because 90% of the grid doesn't have this problem.

 

[Jernej Simončič]

I'm always in for racing close to the walls, Surfers paradise and Long beach, gogogo
It was also a fantastic idea to make the runoff of hocke t1 grass instead of asphalt, it's much more of a challenge now and it makes it less of a gamble. I mean, now it's stick to road or race probably over, last year it was just about how close to the limit you could go and gain time hoping for no cut.

Well if I had the power to change rules, I'd change the 101.5% laptime rule to 100.5% sector time rule; and if there was oversteer involved before leaving the track, no cut. Oversteer is never planned and it's always great show to see drivers do epic saves. This way the rule is I think very well defined and objective for the penalties.

 

[Mike Partington]

Well if I had the power to change rules, I'd change the 101.5% laptime rule to 100.5% sector time rule; and if there was oversteer involved before leaving the track, no cut. Oversteer is never planned and it's always great show to see drivers do epic saves. This way the rule is I think very well defined and objective for the penalties.

You know 100.5% of 20 seconds is 1 tenth. I do think it should be sector based but would need to be 101.5 still or even 102%.

 

[Chris de Jong]

i think the majority agrees that its good the way it is. Rietveld once lost his first win because he cutted too much. Lets switch subjects shall we?
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