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Race #14, Italy: Post-Race Checks

Discussion in 'Formula SimRacing' started by John-Eric Saxén, Sep 12, 2010.

  1. Below are the results from the 14th round.

    Alban Deslie
    Q1: N/A
    Log: No file
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Cut, lap 2
    Penalty: Disqualification for no log file. 0.5 penalty points for pit exit line cut.

    Andrey Yakimenko
    Q1: N/A
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Atze Kerkhof
    Q1: N/A
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: 0.5 penalty points for intentional cutting on qualifying outlap (T1 & 10). 0.5 penalty points for speeding in the pit lane in qualifying.

    Ben Tusting

    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: N/A
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Caner Basol
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Cyril Werdmuller
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: N/A
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    David Dominguez
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: 0.5 penalty points for intentional cutting on qualifying outlap (T10). 2 penalty points from incident #4.

    David Martinez
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Dimitri De Matos
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Giuseppe Marconi
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: 1.5 penalty points for incidents #1 and #2.

    Henning Cordes
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Henri Viirok
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Jack Keithley
    Q1: N/A
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Jeffrey Rietveld
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: 0.5 penalty point for intentional cutting on qualifying outlap (T2). 0.5 penalty points for speeding in pit lane in qualifying. 1 penalty point for incident #3.

    Joakim Bengtsson
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Kerkar Abdelaziz
    Q1: N/A
    Log: N/A
    Launch Control: N/A
    Pitstops: N/A
    Penalty: Warning and 0.5 penalty points for allocating but not being present

    Kostas Kantzouras
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Lukas Euler
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: 0.5 penalty points for intentional cutting on qualifying outlap (T10).

    Mattias Stahre
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Muhammed Patel
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Pablo Garica

    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Raino Room
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Santiago Niza
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Scott Wilde
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Stefan Kanitz
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: Clean
    Penalty: N/A

    Steven Diem
    Q1: Clean
    Log: Clean
    Launch Control: Used
    Pitstops: N/A
    Penalty: 0.5 penalty points for speeding in pit lane in qualifying.


    Incidents

    #1 Giuseppe Marconi - Cyril Werdmuller- T2 Lap 18

    Protest: Marco refuses to accept that Werdmuller is alongside and closes door. Werdmuller manages to react and avoid hitting Marconi.

    Verdict: Werdmuller had his nose alongside Marconi during the entire braking, but Marconi did not give enough room for both cars to enter the corner. 0.5 penalty points for Marconi, due to no contact and little time loss for Wermuller.

    #2 Giuseppe Marconi - Cyril Werdmuller- T7 Lap 18

    Protest: Marconi, not leaving any space on inside, turns into Werdmuller and spins him.

    Verdict: Same situation as above, except this time Werdmuller spins after contact and consequently loses more time. 1 penalty point for Marconi.

    #3 Jeffrey Rietveld- Muhammed Patel- Laps 26-31

    Protest: Jeffrey Rietveld pushes Muhammed Patel on the end of lap 26/start of lap 27. And Lap 27 on the straight heading into turn 7/8(Vialone/Ascari)And Laps 28 & 31 both on the main pit straight.

    Verdict: Rule 1.15: Pushing other cars is not allowed, a car with technical problems such as an empty fuel tank, stalled engine or a car that is trapped in a gravel bed is not allowed to be pushed by another driver. Breaking this rule will be viewed as a Major online etiquette breach and will be penalized likewise.
    The situation in the incident is not exactly the same as decribed above, but fulfills the first part. Hence, Rietveld is given 1 penalty point and conditional disqualification, applied in the case further breaches of rule 1.15 would occur in the future.

    #4 David Dominguez - Mattias Stahre - Lap 38 T1

    Protest: Spinning dominguez doesn't make an attempt to return on track safely and hits Stahre who loses front wing.

    Verdict: The spin from Dominguez was accidental, but the risks should be kept in mind when turning in the middle of the strongest braking point. The outcome could have been less severe, had Dominguez braked more after losing control, instead of letting the car roll back on the track, which eventually resulted in the main damage for Stahre. 2 penalty points to Dominguez.
     
  2. Penalty: 0.5 penalty points for intentional cutting on qualifying outlap (T10

    .....


    [​IMG]

    This is cutting ? ...

    The race "track" is considered the main asphalt surface generally bounded by white lines, grass,
    walls or curbing.


    My right wheels were always over the white line.
     
  3. Apparently that wasn't the case every time you went past there (I checked the full replay), otherwise it wouldn't read penalty :)
     
  4. And ? It's not the same as race, where every lap counts. If my outlap lap during qualifying is ok in my best lap, I can't understand this penalty, as the other laps are useless.

    And also is not the case like cutting a chicane, here you can't gain time to do shorter outlaps ...
     
  5. agreed, didn't read the rules well enough. 1-time mistake
     
  6. Hello, for me "no hotlap replay" but i don't understand, for this race i must started from back of the grid, so i I did not make qualifying.
    I would like an explication please
    thank you

    Alban Deslie
     
  7. @alban

    Saturday night mistake, penalty removed.

    @david
    I wrote in the briefing and in the pre-race chat that intentional cutting on outlaps was forbidden (whether it was chicane or not), so I applied the rule for every outlap. I see your point as well, but I decided to interpret it this way to be more consistent with penalties.
     
  8. Cutting is when you made the track shorter. This is not the case John.
     
  9. This is the same "cut" like at the former Silverstone layout after Bridge Corner. THere we were punished also last year when we used more of the track then the actual white line allowed us to, I think. Also in my view I at least gained 1 km/h with it and it may not be much but it is a gain! Therefore a cut.

    And as JES already said, he told us before. I must say I did not think of this as a cut when he said it, but after the race when I watched replays again it came to my mind, therefore I must admit, my mistake!

    Rule 13.2 " Cutting of corners is considered illegal. So is running extra wide on corner exits. You basically must stay on track for the entire lap"
     
  10. Cutting means also gaining time/speed. This is definetly not the case on the outside - LoL. Strange decision from my objective view.
     
  11. When John said that, the intention was obviously to avoid people cutting chicanes to gain time and have the chance to have more qualy attempts. Running wide at Parabolica doesn't help you to gain time, just 1km/h as you said, but it wasn't my case in my best qualifying lap, so that penalty is a joke.
     
  12. that´s wrong as it was discussed so often now, a cut is everytime when you have more then 2 wheels off the track, no matter if you gain time or not. Which was the case, and if you don´t gain anything, then why do it?
    And especially after it was said in the briefing you should be carefull. But it´s the same arguments from Hockenheim all over ;) Some people will never get it.
     
  13. No, it's not the same as Hockenheim, because

    1- It was on qualifying
    2- It was outlap
    3- It wasn't on my good qualy lap

    It's so funny, you can cut a qualy lap and say to the director "don't count that lap, I've cutted", and no penalty. I cut on an outlap on useless qualy laps as they were slower, and I get a penalty.
     
  14. If he cut an outlap which isnt the one which was his fastest. How can he gain anything? How can he be penalized for that? L O L
     
  15. Because I wrote in the briefing and in the game that intentional cuts on outlaps were to be penalized. The penalty was based on that principle (hence it doesn't need a deeper motivation regarding possible time gain, or anything else for that matter). Sometimes you just have to take rules as rules.
     
  16. So, 0,5 points just because the race director wants. Nice work. Thanks.
     
  17. Crazy stuff.

    Why dont we make huge anti cuts then all around the whole track? Its easier then to have this discussion I guess.
     
  18. Oh come. This discussion is nonsense now. First of all, when the race director has decided, he has. Period. Second I found Johannes hitting the absolut right point. "..., and if you don´t gain anything, then why do it?". What is the point in going wide there if you don't take it as a gain.
    I bet you did not race on that line whole race, did you? Because why, in race it would be no gain at all.

    And btw in my view 0.5 points are not really worth discussing even. As you are a clean driver David in my point of view, why be upset about that?
     
  19. It's not a problem of points, 0,5 or 2 or 100. Just I can't understand how I get a penalty during qualifying when my best lap was clean, including the outlap, and I haven't gained time in the other outlaps doing that, because I made Parabolica longer.

    The reason why I did it you know it perfectly, you can gain 1kph, but I was trying to do it over the white line, as I did in my best lap, just I missed that two times during qualy.

    If I haven't gained anything during that qualifying session, it's really frustrating to see a penalty. And I don't have any problem to respect penalties when they are obvious, like my 2 point penalty when I crashed Stahre. But this is not the case, and I want to express my disagreement, because this kind of little penalties only helps to have people unmotivated.
     
  20. And the useless discussions help a lot in scaring away our hard working race directors and everyone else involved in running this league for you.

    I don't know what the debate is about, a cut is when you exit the track. You don't necessarily need to do a "cut" in the truest sense of the word.

    You exited the track and got a penalty. 0.5 points means nothing, it's a warning pretty much to remind drivers to follow the rules next time, just like all (most) other drivers.

    Meanwhile I think people get upset when they see some lines in
    red colour below their name, because they think it makes them look bad, and look as a bad driver or a driver who isn't liked by the race director, hah.
    I think that's wrong, just relax about it. It's nothing and means nothing unless you do it 6 times, hehe.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1