Race #14, Italy: Post-Race Checks

[David Dominguez]

I don't know what the debate is about, a cut is when you exit the track. You don't necessarily need to do a "cut" in the truest sense of the word.You exited the track and got a penalty. 0.5 points means nothing, it's a warning pretty much to remind drivers to follow the rules next time, just like all (most) other drivers.

The debate is about how can I get a penalty when I haven't gained anything. I haven't gained time doing shorter outlap, I haven't been faster in my best lap because in that lap my outlap was ok.

And please don't say the tipical topics of "they are working for you". Because I have offered myself in the past to help in this area, and also to check cuts on all WC drivers laps (after Hockenheim problems). I know the job of a race director isn't easy and I respect them a lot, but if there is something that I think it's not correct I need to express it. And also I'm helping in other areas.

And as I said before, it's not a problem of points. Because it's only 0,5 points I won't pass it if I think it's not fair.

Edit : I know the penalty won't be removed so this is my last post. But please keep it in mind that this kind of things only helps to have people unmotivated or just leaving the league.

 

[Andreas Umminger]

Edit : I know the penalty won't be removed so this is my last post. But please keep it in mind that this kind of things only helps to have people unmotivated or just leaving the league.

I disagree on that.
My point is: Useless discussions like that scare away people who find the league is outstanding good and it doesn´t put a very professional light on the league if after every penalty people argument and discuss like on childrens playground. I just say this because I once was a "spectator" on this league, too. When I first looked at FSR I was amazed and I still am, but reading the forums and discussions wasn´t increasing that at least I can tell you. So please lets keep in mind that we also have to transport a professional behaviour towards outside the league. Who is taking us more seriouse when we discuss lika a bunch of kids on the playground?

 

[David Dominguez]

Then sorry if I have broken your dream. People out of FSR is very important but people inside of FSR is very important too. It's useless to get new people if the old people is leaving the league due to this kind of things.

 

[Jeffrey Rietveld]

Oh gawd.. another useless discussion. I got penalty points so what ? It's just something which you have to take to the next race and think about it not do it again. 2 Wheels off the track is cut. How easy can it be...

 

[Andreas Umminger]

the league did nothing wrong. You did something wrong. And it was mentioned even before. So why don´t you just take your penalty and move on? I personally find it respectless in front of race directors who spent an awful amount of time to make things ready for you to have fun and do racing. Will you find anything like close to FSR out there? Good luck.
So better think of what you are complaining about.
I don´t have nothing against you personally. But please treat this with the respect it should get. These people spend hours of their free unpaid time to keep things running. And they really don´t need discussions about things like that.

 

[David Dominguez]

You are missing totally the point Andreas. As I said before, I also spent time for free for the league with other areas, and I respect a lot that people, specially Dennis as I said him a lot of times, but it doesn't mean they are always taking the correct decisions, obviusly they are humans. Or being race director means you are perfect ? No. And I feel my penalty isn't fair and I said what I feel and what I think, just it, it's nothing respectless and I don't want to leave FSR, thanks.

 

[Joakim Bengtsson]

I think people want to follow the rules and I think people respect the rules if the rules are sensible. These debates always happen when there is a penalty that doesn't make sense to people. If this cut was on David's fastest lap, then it makes sense and it would have been deserved. Personally I don't even understand why the RD would bother to check an outlap of a driver's NOT fastest Q-attempt. The really silly thing is that if this had been on David's second fastest HOTLAP it wouldn't have been a penalty, but because it was an outlap it is.

It's also pretty annoying to hear those "oh well it's just a 0.5 points penalty, nothing more than a slap on the wrist, don't bother, it's not anything serious". Well if it's nothing serious, why does the league choose, over and over again to give Actual penalties to people for things that aren't worth to bother about? It creates nothing but bad atmosphere and lots of irritation among drivers and management alike.

I think most people (yes even I ) can accept a penalty if they 1: destroyed someone elses race, or 2: broke a rule and gained an ACTUAL advantage.

 

[Ben Phillips]

Im with you david!
For me to be penalised not on your fast lap / outlap is bizzare!
Also to say things like not to scare off the race directors........ Its there job to review the races, sometimes they get it right! Sometimes they get it wrong, but coming up with comments like dont scare the race directors off and things like that is wrong imo.
Why cant we put our cases accross?! Its a job the director took onboard,if he or she is going to run off into a corner crying because someone questioned his/her judgement then tbh better off doing something else with your spare time "imo".
Andbefore anyone comes back at me saying you dont know what is involved blah blah, i actually am well aware of the hours needed to commit to such a role as my father has been wc race director and ws pro director here in fsr!

@ david, its sucks mate, whats the difference between a cut in a q outlap not submitted or going straight through flat in turn 1 in free practise? Because both are irelavent to the lap you submited.

 

[David Dominguez]

Personally I don't even understand why the RD would bother to check an outlap of a driver's NOT fastest Q-attempt. The really silly thing is that if this had been on David's second fastest HOTLAP it wouldn't have been a penalty, but because it was an outlap it is.

In Monza makes sense because you can gain some valious seconds cutting the chicanes. But obviously it wasn't my case ...

Thanks for the post, finally someone who understands what I'm feeling and saying.

 

[Andreas Umminger]

Ok, I get the point, also. As I said I have nothing against David at all.
It´s just alltough Dennis and John and even I might know that you do repect the people a lot and everything it doesn´t mean we should always discuss and complain about it so much. Well it´s quite a difficult thing about being sensitive for everything and of course nobody is perfect. I totally also get the point why you think this penalty is not deserved. I just wanted to point out that it is not healthy to discuss so much and even more to mention that it makes people leave this league and so on. Because that does only add +++++ to any negative athmosphere that could come up. I think everyone here is free to contact our series director and they are always open to constructive input. It´s just far away in my eyes that they do not take things seriouse enough.
So please don´t take any of what I wrote personally or as against you. I wanted to try to point out for everyone to think about that in a bit more sensitive way. That´s all.

PEACE

 

[David Dominguez]

So please don´t take any of what I wrote personally or as against you. I wanted to try to point out for everyone to think about that in a bit more sensitive way. That´s all.

There isn't any problem Andreas

 

[Eduard Mallorquí]

If David was penalized for cut the track in the insignificant outlap, you have to penalize my late braking and cut the chicane in my aborted lap. Is that correct?

 

[Andreas Umminger]

see how complex that is?

well Eduard I don´t think. Because when you aborted the lap you had to do that outlap again and of course therefore you couldn´t take an advantage at all. It was rather a disadvantage for you, because you lost time...never gained.
(I know that David also didn´t gain time in his case at all).
But that quite much shows how complex this is haha

 

[David Dominguez]

see how complex that is?

well Eduard I don´t think. Because when you aborted the lap you had to do that outlap again and of course therefore you couldn´t take an advantage at all. It was rather a disadvantage for you, because you lost time...never gained.
(I know that David also didn´t gain time in his case at all).
But that quite much shows how complex this is haha

And what I gained ? One of that two laps was aborted and the other was slower .... lol

 

[Damian Henderson]

Some penalties we feel are harsh when we get them, but if you cant appeal it then you just need to accept it and move on professionally. If you want to discuss it in long detail how harsh you think it is, it's best to talk to the director personally in private to avoid the public getting the wrong idea's. It's the best way I have found.

 

[Eduard Mallorquí]

Well, I don't understand the reason of this penalty. For example, in the other penaltys the objective is that the driver don't do again this actions because he gain time, take an advantage or he do dangerous actions or crash with the other drivers.
But the reason of this penalty is that David "cut" the track for little centimetres in the insignificant outlap because he done the best time in the other attempt.
What is the objective in this penalty? I don't think David need this penalty because he isn't a compulsive cutter tracks

 

[Stefan Kanitz]

nursery school. Life is hard, accept it or not.

 

[Dennis Hirrle]

True. David's excuse is the spanish temper though.

I'd also prefer if people talked with each other directly rather than starting a public debate for everything. I think JES is a talkative guy, despite being a Finn, so I think it can be sorted through other channels.

It's everyone's own decision though. It just does get frustrating to read debates about nothing all the time, while today after work, rushed to work on the damn Singapore track for a couple hours, soon I can go to bed, and tomorrow is the same story.
Ok, I understood my complaining is not appreciated, so I'll stop right here. Or rather at the end of the year.

As should this discussion.

 

[David Dominguez]

The spanish temper excuse is too old Dennis, you need a new one

Also maybe it's a debate of nothing for you, for me it's important. Anyway I accept the recomendation of doing it privately as Damian said, it's true.

 

[Kostas Kantzouras]

it's simple. just don't cut. never ever cut and always use your speed limiter in the pit lane. who wants it more clear than that? if you don't understand why you should do that, engage brain.