Race #11, Japan: Post-Race Checks

[Norbert Leitner]

How you can stall after your car started to move?

I did not stalled. Anti Stall System started to work. I tested yesterday and if the engine rpm goes below 3000rpm Anti Stall System starts. You have to press clutch to the max to disable it meanwhile you have to give more throttle to not start the whole process again.

 

[Ho3n3r]

How you can stall after your car started to move?

Please don't drive on the roads. Just don't.

 

[Dmitry Zaharov]

Please don't drive on the roads. Just don't.

I'm driving cars with manual for 8 years. Show your genuity somewhere else.

 

[Dmitry Zaharov]

I did not stalled. Anti Stall System started to work. I tested yesterday and if the engine rpm goes below 3000rpm Anti Stall System starts. You have to press clutch to the max to disable it meanwhile you have to give more throttle to not start the whole process again.

I never ever heard these cars have anti stall.

 

[Eduard Mallorquí]

@Martin Hodás I made a question to the Director, nobody asked for your opinion or moral lessons. Norbert made a mistake and apologised for it as his mistake affected other drivers. As a team, we encourage that kind of sportsmanlike behaviour. Unless you breach a rule, penalising a driver error, however, is a completely different thing which makes no sense.

Regarding driver errors, it would be good if the Director could make a clarification on how they are considered. FTS drivers were taken out in Silverstone and Hockenheim by drivers who made mistakes while overtaking and the Director took no action. When an FTS driver spun (Bahrain) or made a poor start, they received penalties or warnings. Since a risky overtaking move is obviously something the driver can take advantage of, as opposed to a making a bad start or spinning, which would give you no advantage, I fail to understand the logic behind those decisions.

@danielino You are currently a COA judge, correct?

I want to believe all the incidents are caused by driver's errors and all the penalties that I placed though all the season are because those errors, as far as I know no one is taking out or turning into someone intentionally. It's not hard to imagine what would happen if everyone had the free pass of "it was a driver error" like you seem to suggest.

Regarding the incidents like spinning while accelerating I don't think its reason enough to place a penalty, like I didn't think stalling in the grid is reason enough to place a penalty, but when it repeats over and over obviously something needs to be done.

 

[Adrian Rodriguez]

IMO
(If u try not kill LC system, this doesn't happen.

If u try it and u did correctly, grats, u earn a bit advantage. If u fail, face the consequences, driver's fault, fair penalty.

P.D: Causing a mass crash and repeatedly, I find slight punishment.)

 

[Mike Partington]

I never ever heard these cars have anti stall.

Most likely because you use auto-clutch. Its very very easy to get the anti-stall to kick in using manual.

 

[Jernej Simončič]

When we talk about LC... Why do we use it at all? I think I never saw a topic on that. When I came here 2 years and a half ago I was astonished to see LC being enabled. Before FSR I only raced in fun leagues with friends and LC was rarely enabled, then I did the big step to FSR and... wow LC lol wat.
I just feel the need to write this. Is there any chance to disable LC? If the argument for using it was that it's less dangerous, it's not. It forces you either to use ridiculous 1st gear, or to find some other way with clutch and TC override. And that other way can be dangerous as we see. I'm one of those who want 1st gear to be at least 150kph long.

( funny fact: in my first fsr race I started without LC but was given "ok" in checks )

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

No, it forces you to use realistic 1st gear. Without LC we have ridiculously long 1st gears as in iRacing Williams until they enforced gear ratios. From what I remember, McLaren was only F1 team that consistently used 1st gear with the old 7-gear boxes and they only used it in slowest hairpins, exactly as Morand and Huis now in Suzuka hairpin.

The pre-LC era starts where generally a full disaster, this happened every race. What is beyond my understanding is how drivers can fail over and over even with LC, but that's another story. Probably it would make sense to give heavier penalties for every start procedure fail.

 

[Christian Smirnoff]

I want to believe all the incidents are caused by driver's errors and all the penalties that I placed though all the season are because those errors, as far as I know no one is taking out or turning into someone intentionally. It's not hard to imagine what would happen if everyone had the free pass of "it was a driver error" like you seem to suggest.

Regarding the incidents like spinning while accelerating I don't think its reason enough to place a penalty, like I didn't think stalling in the grid is reason enough to place a penalty, but when it repeats over and over obviously something needs to be done.

I obviously didn't mean to say anyone crashes another car intentionally. But I think there's a big difference between a rule breach and a driver error. If I try to overtake another car and make contact with it due to not following the rules (for example: turning into the car, leaving no space), that is not a driver error (intentionality isn't brought into play here), that is a rule breach. If I am driving and I lose control of my own car or I make a bad start, I did not breach any rules, I made a driving error. The first ones are subject to penalties, the others are not.

The fact that an incident that in your opinion is not subject to penalties, suddenly becomes penalised because it happens frequently, is highly questionable. Unfortunate racing incidents happen almost every race and are still not penalised, which in case there weren't any rule breaches, would be correct.

 

[David Dominguez]

From section "Penalties":

Please note these are maximum advisable penalties for known breaches of rules in the first instance. Subsequent instances may incur a stronger penalty than listed above. Some discretion may be used by officials in cases where special consideration is required and reasoning shall be presented to explain penalties where these guidelines are not clearly applicable.

Special consideration was more than required, and reasoning about potential higher penalties was already presented some rounds ago.

Personally I understand that maybe maybe one day you can have some sort of problem, button not working etc, and the car doesn't start, but when it happens so many times in the same season (and in the same team), clearly there is a strong reason behind. It can't be bad luck or hardware fail all the time.

Also the driver in question already had the same issue the day before... knowing that he had an issue and failing again could have been considered as careless driving (so penalty could have been much bigger), so I also think like Hodas, he should be happy if anything :/

 

[David Greco]

IMO
(If u try not kill LC system, this doesn't happen.

If u try it and u did correctly, grats, u earn a bit advantage. If u fail, face the consequences, driver's fault, fair penalty.

P.D: Causing a mass crash and repeatedly, I find slight punishment.)

that can actually happen even with no LC-trick or wtv. For example we had at Twister once too long first gear, and it did that, antistall all the time.. we had to change gears.

 

[David Dominguez]

About the use of LC or not ... I don't think not using LC makes this less "hardcore", you are crazy if you think that F1 drivers do manual starts like we would do in simracing. They have special engine and torque maps only for race starts, double clutch in steering wheel paddels, all of this to make it easier for the driver, and they still get severe wheelspin from time to time. As a simracer we lack all this stuff, the car feel and proper pedals, so I think using LC is a good decision. What should be investigated for the future is how to stop people from using tricks to get rid of the LC system...

 

[Carlos Martín]

I think it will be usefull to know when the antistall got on.

 

[Christian Smirnoff]

From section "Penalties":

Please note these are maximum advisable penalties for known breaches of rules in the first instance. Subsequent instances may incur a stronger penalty than listed above. Some discretion may be used by officials in cases where special consideration is required and reasoning shall be presented to explain penalties where these guidelines are not clearly applicable.

Special consideration was more than required, and reasoning about potential higher penalties was already presented some rounds ago.

Personally I understand that maybe maybe one day you can have some sort of problem, button not working etc, and the car doesn't start, but when it happens so many times in the same season (and in the same team), clearly there is a strong reason behind. It can't be bad luck or hardware fail all the time.

Also the driver in question already had the same issue the day before... knowing that he had an issue and failing again could have been considered as careless driving (so penalty could have been much bigger), so I also think like Hodas, he should be happy if anything :/

So a special consideration is required to penalise a type of incident which the Director himself agrees it should not, perfect. Whatever happened in another division is completely irrelevant, too.

And there's a strong reason indeed, we have a top secret trick to make superb starts, of course.... Irony aside, the only risky method to try to achieve a better start would cause you to have wheelspin and spin your car, if you get it wrong, which was not the case and we are not using such method.

Anyway, I will stop wasting my time here.

 

[Martin Hodás]

@Martin Hodás I made a question to the Director, nobody asked for your opinion or moral lessons. Norbert made a mistake and apologised for it as his mistake affected other drivers. As a team, we encourage that kind of sportsmanlike behaviour. Unless you breach a rule, penalising a driver error, however, is a completely different thing which makes no sense @danielino You are currently a COA judge, correct?

Clearly its needed Your driver caused two wrecks during one week and you are still complaining about his penalty, ridiculous. And clearly Im not the only one who thinks the same about this situation.
Doesnt matter about exact interpretation of what kind of error should be penalized. When you cause such a crash, you deserve penalty anyway, and you cant expect that you will be unpunished. Many people complained about crashes, drivers behaviour, and all the stuff, and they wanted harsher penalties....but when it comes, there is suddenly a problem. Weird.

 

[Norbert Leitner]

@Carlos Martin

I did not stalled. Anti Stall System started to work. I tested yesterday and if the engine rpm goes below 3000rpm Anti Stall System starts. You have to press clutch to the max to disable it meanwhile you have to give more throttle to not start the whole process again.

 

[Carlos Martín]

@Carlos Martin

Was it after or before relaesing the LC or before that? I guess it was after releasing it.

 

[Georg Winter]

That I dont understand Norbert. If you use LC without any LC override tricks, the rpm will never go below 3000rpm

 

[Norbert Leitner]

Was it after or before relaesing the LC or before that? I guess it was after releasing it.

Yeah, after i realeased the LC button the car started to move like 5 meters. Than anti stall kicked in..