Modernizing GTR2 with the Crew Chief GTR2 Enhancements Plugin

[The Iron Wolf]

No, that is not in my plans, sorry. Also, I do not take feature requests in general as I simply share stuff I use.
If someone else wants to write such a plugin this plugin could save them time, as a lot of needed info is exposed via shared memory.

 

[Davide Nativo]

Ok no problem

 

[Ceaffinc]

A while ago I finally decided to give the CCGEP plugin & DXVK a go. I've been putting it off for a long time because the installation process sounded so daunting and I kinda expected long troubleshooting sessions...but everything went fine and the process was actually really simple. I haven't yet experimented with every new option but I like this so far. Thank you for your great work, The Iron Wolf!

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Folks, I am trying to figure out a problem that some users experience with this plugin. Even if it works well for you, please vote, because that will help me understanding how widespread the problem is: https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/poll-for-ccgep-users.266693/

 

[Shovas]

RealFeel FFB

RealFeel FFB became popular back in the rFactor 1 and Game Stock Car days. Its FFB was based only on physics except for 'parking lot' physics that helped provide a more realistic friction of a tire at rest.

Added RealFeel FFB setup instructions enabled by the Crew Chief GTR2 Enhancements Plugin

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Thanks @Shovas. One mistake in RFP instructions - to make FFB weaker one has to increase MaxForceAtSteeringRack, not decrease it.

BTW question to those who use this, we are curious about how is your experience with RFP compared to stock FFB in GTR2?

 

[Speednut357]

It is amazing on the old G29 and G25. But since moving to direct drive it is a little too easy to induce violent oscillation or clipping. Once set its great, just a bit of a hurdle to get going at the start.

 

[Shovas]

It is amazing on the old G29 and G25. But since moving to direct drive it is a little too easy to induce violent oscillation or clipping. Once set its great, just a bit of a hurdle to get going at the start.

What's your wheel? I don't get oscillation or clipping on RealFeel. And for sure you could tune out clipping by increasing (yes increase) MaxForceAtSteeringRack to lower the ffb strength.

It is a subtle difference vs original ffb but I may be starting to prefer RealFeel. It might also just be the DTM 2018 cars I'm using which have extraordinary ffb.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

It is amazing on the old G29 and G25. But since moving to direct drive it is a little too easy to induce violent oscillation or clipping. Once set its great, just a bit of a hurdle to get going at the start.

thanks for sharing. Yes, oscillation is big problem. For oscilation make sure you check "Notes on Direct Drive wheel oscillation" section in the manual. One thing I forgot to mention and will fix, some settings go to .cchdc file and override .ini file values, so if you use those make sure to make the needed adjustments in .cchdc as well.

If you want, you can find some sample settings for DD (Fanatec DD1) wheel by me at Trackaholics, but principles of my configuration are all described in the manual and there's no right or wrong way here.

 

[Speednut357]

thanks for sharing. Yes, oscillation is big problem. For oscilation make sure you check "Notes on Direct Drive wheel oscillation" section in the manual. One thing I forgot to mention and will fix, some settings go to .cchdc file and override .ini file values, so if you use those make sure to make the needed adjustments in .cchdc as well.

If you want, you can find some sample settings for DD (Fanatec DD1) wheel by me at Trackaholics, but principles of my configuration are all described in the manual and there's no right or wrong way here.

I worked these things out. The documentation you provide Iron Wolf is some of the best I have seen. It's just a bit of feedback as you asked for.
Having suffered the oscillation problem myself, it is a worry for unsuspecting new people. It can be bad when you get the setting wrong. I have a Moza 5.
I think I made it worse by having things set for the G29 and switching to the moza. Then I looked at the instructions and saw the warning about it.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

I worked these things out. The documentation you provide Iron Wolf is some of the best I have seen. It's just a bit of feedback as you asked for.
Having suffered the oscillation problem myself, it is a worry for unsuspecting new people. It can be bad when you get the setting wrong. I have a Moza 5.
I think I made it worse by having things set for the G29 and switching to the moza. Then I looked at the instructions and saw the warning about it.

Glad it was helpful! Indeed DD wheels can send you to the hospital.

But what are your reasons to use RFP over stock FFB in GTR2? I remember in rF1 difference was drastic, but in GTR2 it feels very similar to stock FFB. My personal reasons are kF force and simplicity of use, but what about you?

 

[Speednut357]

Glad it was helpful! Indeed DD wheels can send you to the hospital.

But what are your reasons to use RFP over stock FFB in GTR2? I remember in rF1 difference was drastic, but in GTR2 it feels very similar to stock FFB. My personal reasons are kF force and simplicity of use, but what about you?

Well with the G29 it was a massive improvement much like Rfactor. With the Moza not so much. Yeah when I first used it it seemed like an improvement but some cars which have good physics seem maybe better with a highly tuned standard FFB. In Rfactor real feel seems to make the wheels follow bumps in the road, you get a planted but still loose feeling. In GTR2 with the get real physics mod I get a similar feel without real feel.

 

[Vilmos Vas]

Regarding RFP, it is a massive improvement over stock FFB with my T300. In fact GTR3 with RFP, decoupled physics at 800Hz rivals current sims. Thank you @The Iron Wolf and all who made this happen, and @Shovas for being so active in the GTR2 community.
My only dream is to implement RTX Remix in GTR2 but I have no idea how to do it, even after reading the instructions by nVidia a few times...

 

[Shovas]

I was going to take a moment to confirm if any of the PLR FFB params are used by RealFeel when i had a moment but I haven't yet.

Has anyone tried messing with PLR FFB params while using RealFeel?

Is it affecting RealFeel?

I kinda hope they have no bearing at all which would mean RealFeel would be the universal solution, no tuning required except for basic ffb strength.

And I'd have no qualms if that meant SHO FFB was moot. It has served its purpose and kept us all interested and enjoying the experience.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Regarding RFP, it is a massive improvement over stock FFB with my T300. In fact GTR3 with RFP, decoupled physics at 800Hz rivals current sims. Thank you @The Iron Wolf and all who made this happen, and @Shovas for being so active in the GTR2 community.
My only dream is to implement RTX Remix in GTR2 but I have no idea how to do it, even after reading the instructions by nVidia a few times...

thanks for your kind words. I replied to your Remix comment on Discord, but FWIW in case you missed it you can do A LOT in GTR2 (including VR!) using my ReShade addon for CCGEP. If you run in 2D you can enable ReShade Raytracing effects (they are too slow for VR atm ) For general reshade help consider joining their forum/discord

Could you elaborate what exactly is better with RFP over stock FFB?

 

[The Iron Wolf]

I was going to take a moment to confirm if any of the PLR FFB params are used by RealFeel when i had a moment but I haven't yet.

Has anyone tried messing with PLR FFB params while using RealFeel?

Is it affecting RealFeel?

I kinda hope they have no bearing at all which would mean RealFeel would be the universal solution, no tuning required.

IIRC only settings that affect canned effects matter (and master force multiplier "FFB Gain"). Remember our grip in rain discussion? I have it on my todo to investigate if it affects RFP but did not get to it yet. In general I really like that thanks to RFP I can mostly ignore .plr stuff. I remember for sure that force exponent has no effect "FFB steer force exponent" (thank goodness) of course, assuming that 100% RFP mix is used.

 

[Shovas]

Just ran through the non-effect PLR FFB parameters and here are my preliminary findings:

PLR Params with effect on RealFeel FFB

FFB Effects Level="1": Added effects, must be >= 1 or there's no forces from RealFeel
FFB Gain="0.60000": Controls RealFeel FFB Strength, maybe best to set 1.0 here and control strength in RealFeelPlugin.ini
FFB steer force exponent="0.80000": No RealFeel FFB at zero and > 0 enables RealFeel FFB but it's just on/off, no particular values or ranges make it feel any different
FFB steer force input max="11500.00000": Must match your original value, at zero no RealFeel forces

^ But these can be left at default so no tuning needed

PLR Params with no effect on RealFeel FFB

FFB steer force average weight="1.00000"
FFB steer force output max="1.05000"
FFB steer force grip weight="0.90000"
FFB steer force grip factor="0.060000"

The other effects parameters are mixed into the RealFeel FFB (or not as configured in RealFeelPlugin.ini) and wouldn't/shouldn't affect RealFeel's physics-based steering forces.

So, it seems to me, we can recommend RealFeel as a drop-in replacement with no tuning needed except for strength (DefaultMaxForceAtSteeringRack) and FrontGripEffect.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Just ran through the non-effect PLR FFB parameters and here are my preliminary findings:

PLR Params with effect on RealFeel FFB

FFB Effects Level="1": Added effects, must be >= 1 or there's no forces from RealFeel
FFB Gain="0.60000": Controls RealFeel FFB Strength
FFB steer force exponent="0.80000": No effects at zero
FFB steer force input max="11500.00000": Must match your original value, at zero no RealFeel forces

^ But these can be left at default so no tuning needed

PLR Params with no effect on RealFeel FFB

FFB steer force average weight="1.00000"
FFB steer force output max="1.05000"
FFB steer force grip weight="0.90000"
FFB steer force grip factor="0.060000"

The effects parameters are mixed into the RealFeel FFB (or not as configured in RealFeelPlugin.ini) and wouldn't/shouldn't affect RealFeel's physics-based steering forces.

So, it seems to me, we can recommend RealFeel as a drop-in replacement with no tuning needed except for strength (DefaultMaxForceAtSteeringRack) and DefaultFrontGripEffect which seems to be auto-calculated from the PLR Grip Weight?

Did you do implement that auto-calculation TIW?

I did not do any special logic. I just wired RFP and call it to calculate steering force (GTR2 rF1 API is partial, for some reason FFB call is not wired in the original .exe, I implemented that in CCGEP). The only special logic is I dynamically control Kf based on Softness and engine RPMs for simple powersteering emulation (see the manual).

My recomendations are explained in the manual, I do not have much to add but I think we are roughly on the same page.

Please clarify: are you saying "FFB steer force exponent" affects RFP?

 

[Shovas]

Please clarify: are you saying "FFB steer force exponent" affects RFP?

Just re-checked: Zero disables RealFeel FFB while anything > 0 enables RealFeel FFB but no particular values or ranges affect it in any way that I can see. I tried 0.5 and 2.0 and 100. So it acts like an on/off toggle.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Thank you @Shovas, you say that "grip" values have no effect. That means that currently there's no way to control how RFP feels in rain vs dry, right?