Major Update: 2023 Q2 Update and DLC Released

[MarcG]

Just look at that, 10+ years of waiting to see THAT, AI Slipstreaming and actually passing....what a time to be alive!

 

[deangelis7]

Problem is gmotor fixes seem to create other issues.

well... I have tested new update for some time and unfortunately I am disappointed... AI still sucks. In fact I even coudn't see any major AI improvements that devs tell us in release notes. well, okay, one good thing I noted that AI is slipstreamming and passing other cars now. But that's all...
but on the other hand AI still sometimes divebombing in the corners, sometimes they are reckless and overagressive and don't leave enough space for player's car (small pushes and contact fight can be okay in touring car racing but for open-wheel formula racing such behaviour is unacceptable) or AI try to pass in places where is no enough room for overtaking (escpecailly on street circuits with walls and barriers), sometimes they don't keep proper distance from player's car and close fighting with AI ends that AI is pushing or ramming into player's car, sometimes AI spin out and run out of the track....

But the most dumb thing that wasn't fixed is that AI gets blind sometimes and can't see player's car at all. For example if the player's car deviates slightly from the ideal line in turn and passes this turn along a slightly different trajectory, then AI from behind continues to follow its prescribed code and refuses to see the player's car on its path and pushes my car from side or even just stupidly ram into my car... or other situation - AI challenges with player's car wheel-to-wheel and try to overtake before the corner but then it understands that's already too late for overtaking and instead of braking AI just decides to comeback on its perfect line and simply turns in player's car as if AI doesn't see my car at all it is so pathetic. It seems that AI still has poor detections of player's car on the track and sometimes just gets blind. The same problems were in old gmotor games - GTR2 and rF1 but it was almost 20 years ago...it's frustrated that in 2023 rF2 devs still can't provide proper AI behaviour

 

[MarcG]

ago...it's frustrated that in 2023 rF2 devs still can't provide proper AI behaviour

At least they're working on the AI (finally), remember we went for YEARS under S397 without any decent AI updates or changes. Now we're getting them practically every update, so whilst it still may be far from perfect at least they're actively making an attempt to make them better overall.

So what would you prefer? They stopped and gave up? Or continued on and fixed the issues at hand?....

 

[Durge Driven]

So what would you prefer? They stopped and gave up? Or continued on and fixed the issues at hand?....

I openly said on ISI about 2 years after release to wind it up and move on and greenlight next ground up engine making visuals and offline a priority .

In my opinion ISI never recovered from the initial "looks like a cartoon" era.
The die had been cast by so called hobbyists.

 

[deangelis7]

At least they're working on the AI (finally), remember we went for YEARS under S397 without any decent AI updates or changes. Now we're getting them practically every update, so whilst it still may be far from perfect at least they're actively making an attempt to make them better overall.

So what would you prefer? They stopped and gave up? Or continued on and fixed the issues at hand?....

yes. I agree with you. Lets hope they continue. Overall AI in rF2 is not too bad of course. In most cases you can have normal racing with AI but sometimes AI is still doing stupid things which I described above. But I mean that developers should solve problems and fix AI issues and improve offline experience at a much faster pace. We still don't have in 2023 in-game championship or any other offline mode. Also for example if you look on AI talent files you can see that it's still the same as in rF1... I admire reiza devs because they keep working hard on AI and adding new lines in talent files for better AI customization, but in rF2 we still have the same old outdated talent file from rF1. So you can see that rF2 devs are very very slow...

 

[MarcG]

yes. I agree with you. Lets hope they continue. Overall AI in rF2 is not too bad of course. In most cases you can have normal racing with AI but sometimes AI is still doing stupid things which I described above. But I mean that developers should solve problems and fix AI issues and improve offline experience at a much faster pace. We still don't have in 2023 in-game championship or any other offline mode. Also for example if you look on AI talent files you can see that it's still the same as in rF1... I admire reiza devs because they keep working hard on AI and adding new lines in talent files for better AI customization, but in rF2 we still have the same old outdated talent file from rF1. So you can see that rF2 devs are very very slow...

It's pointless overloading the (already good enough) talent files with more junk, they need to work on the basic AI and fix the past issues before looking at major additions. AMS2 whilst good still has problems with their AI, no matter how much they add too it.

It's also nothing to do with pace or how slow they are, the previous Management simply didn't want to spend any time on AI so they didn't. Now they are and like a lot of Areas AI is not easy or "quick" to code and get right, if it was then every Sim would have amazing AI from the get go.

Besides, the guys working on RF2 AI right now also work on other things to do with the Sim, there is no one person working mon-fri solely on AI and you'll find it hard to find any Sim software team that has that luxury!

As for the championship mode that fault lies squarely with ISI, they had the basic one in RF1 but didn't transfer it to RF2 in the first place and then S397 came along and spent far too long on a UI that failed all the while ignoring this subject. So even though things have changed since, I personally doubt we'll ever get anything decent now for a long long time, which of course is a great shame.

 

[deangelis7]

It's pointless overloading the (already good enough) talent files with more junk, they need to work on the basic AI and fix the past issues before looking at major additions. AMS2 whilst good still has problems with their AI, no matter how much they add too it.

I mean rF2 talent files have actually only two working lines Speed and Qual speed. Other parameters are either useless or working only with AI limiter combination. But on my opininon AI limiter is very weird parameter so I don't use it at all or put its value no more than 5-10%. Such parameters as Courtesy, Reputation, Recovery etc are just junk and change nothing. I would like to have such parameters for customization AI drivers as Consistency and Mistakes at least (without linking it to AI limiter)

As for the championship mode that fault lies squarely with ISI, they had the basic one in RF1 but didn't transfer it to RF2 in the first place and then S397 came along and spent far too long on a UI that failed all the while ignoring this subject. So even though things have changed since, I personally doubt we'll ever get anything decent now for a long long time, which of course is a great shame.

unfortunately it seems so I've already given up waiting on it and for creating own championship I use third-party software AILogAnalyzer

 

[Durge Driven]

AI is still doing stupid things which I described above.

This I will never get, I watched about 5 /6 series on weekend. You know how many incidents from stupid driving and moves I saw ? Too many to count and these are best drivers in the world.
How is realistic simulation almost perfect driving from entire grid with a canned mistake here and there.

That is what I get from other sims the AI are like robots, there are no dynamics going on, AMS2 and ACC are terrible most boring AI I have ever raced, GTR2 is better. rF2 makes you think about everything you do every second every lap.

Had a go of Nords on weekend thing is like a pancake it has no substance or life in the terrain totally devoid of feeling, skidding a car around there sounds so canned, no variation in tone, no dynamics going on there either.
Looks rather plain and average imho expecting much more.

 

[deangelis7]

This I will never get, I watched about 5 /6 series on weekend. You know how many incidents from stupid driving and moves I saw ? Too many to count and these are best drivers in the world.
How is realistic simulation almost perfect driving from entire grid with a canned mistake here and there.

That is what I get from other sims the AI are like robots, there are no dynamics going on, AMS2 and ACC are terrible most boring AI I have ever raced, GTR2 is better. rF2 makes you think about everything you do every second every lap.

Had a go of Nords on weekend thing is like a pancake it has no substance or life in the terrain totally devoid of feeling, skidding a car around there sounds so canned, no variation in tone, no dynamics going on there either.
Looks rather plain and average imho expecting much more.

should disagree with you. AMS2 AI and racing with it is better than rF2 by now. It's not perfect but very decent. Boring?? you must be kidding. AMS2 AI race with each other, overtakings, changing positions etc. rF2 AI, if you set AI limiter on 0, they race every lap with almost the same speed and we get processional racing aka "train".. and that is actually boring and quite predictable. Of course you can raise AI limiter but it's very weird parameter and I never set it more than 10% because it enables some strange AI behaviour (for example: top AI drivers slowdown in the race and set slower lap times than in qualify while on the other hand underdog-drivers suddenly drive faster than in qualify). And in addition as I said before AI talent file in rF2 is very limited and full of not-working junk.
Now about "stupid mistakes" and real-life racing... well... if you have for example +1 hour close racing with AI and in the end of this race you get idiotic divebombing from AI and it ruins your whole race and it means that you just wasted 1 hour of your lifetime and throw it in the trash thanks to dumb AI then I much prefer to have AI without such stupid mistakes than to make excuses and refer to the fact that "in real life human drivers also sometimes make mistakes and do stupid things". And consider that problem here is that in rf2 AI can do something stupid like divebombing or ramming much sooner than after one hour...for example yesterday I had a couple of races with AI and sometimes got divebombing and a few other stupid things from AI even in the first laps, despite the fact that I set AI agression on 5%, limiter on 5%, difficulty on 100% and try to drive with them as carefully and intelligently as even possible. This almost never happens to me in AMS2

 

[Durge Driven]

Some sims AI imho have no real time DYNAMICS that I can tell going on, that is what I said and that is what makes them boring.

You can disagree as much as you like, remember you are the one coming in one sims forum defending another, typical fanboy.

If you honestly feel that way what are you doing here ?

 

[deangelis7]

Some sims AI imho have no real time DYNAMICS that I can tell going on, that is what I said and that is what makes them boring.

You can disagree as much as you like, remember you are the one coming in one sims forum defending another, typical fanboy.

If you honestly feel that way what are you doing here ?

I am huge fan of both games and play both AMS2 and rF2. Еach has its own advantages and disadvantages and there are some things that I don't like in them. But AI and offline experience overall is still weak point of rF2