Is VR Great?

[RCHeliguy]

OpenXR has officially made quad view an intrinsic part of the release.

What that means is that it is now a standard and "maybe" software houses will be more likely to add support for it.

Unfortunately we still have to wait for them to add support.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I'm waiting for more info about both devices. Very interesting times now for high end VR enthusiasts.

I expect that the decontented Crystal will be released this year and that it will sell well.

The Super is much more likely to come some time in 2025, then again the VR1 hasn't been given an official release time table either.

 

[gamma123152]

I expect that the decontented Crystal will be released this year and that it will sell well.

The Super is much more likely to come some time in 2025, then again the VR1 hasn't been given an official release time table either.

Pimax wants to have the Crystal Super released and shipped this year in Q4 because they plan to show the new 12K prototype in January 2025. If they don't manage to do that then they will probably lose sales on the Super because there is a serious chance that people will then wait for the 12K again. But yes, there's a big chance that it gets delayed (both, the Super and the 12K prototype at CES), Pimax has a history of delays indeed. I personally think that the QLED variant comes first and that the OLED will cause the delay.

 

[gamma123152]

The VR1 is getting real 125-130 hFOV and appears to be sharper than the Crystal.

Pimax attempted a wide FOV lens and it appears not to be very good and only reached 115 hFOV.

Did they just sandbag on the lens for the Crystal, hiding their true lens expertise? Or do they not really know how to create a sharp 130 hFOV lens ?

The VR1 will pretty well max out a 5090.

The Super has very similar specs to the XR4 and very likely will have a similar FOV about 115 hFOV. The problem is that unless you are only playing DCS, a 15Mp display will need to wait for a 6090 to actually drive it.

At this point I'm pretty sure the VR 1 will be a pretty big step up from a Crystal.

The Super falls into a category like the XR4 where we are so far behind the GPU to push it, that I don't see the point. I also will never see a VR headset as future proof or an investment, so buying something with the hope a GPU released 2 years later will drive it well doesn't make a lot of sense.

I run the Crystal almost maxed out with 3988*~4800px + 4xMSAA or something in all sim racing titles. That's very close to the native 100% render resolution. That's with the oced 4090. With such an high PPD/resolution as the Super has you could get away with 2xMSAA instead, so I expect that the 5090 could run it just fine after some tweaking (which is always mandatory).

I expect that the FoV of the QLED will be around VR1 levels, they showed in the video that they strive for 150FoV so they will probably end up with 120-125FoV.

The new QLED panel has way more dimming zones per panel than the VR1 panel has and it has a much higher resolution. IMO Somnium missed the boat, their device will be 3000 euro+ with eye tracking and CA fix and the Pimax Super sells at half of that for Crystal owners and almost half than that for non Crystal owners. I think that they amount of enthusiasts that choose for the VR1 is a very small minority.

Yes its probably more premium, the VR1 in terms of build quality and feeling/software experience, but it simply launches with outdated panels, for that price point it will be a hard sell.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I think the uOLED will come MUCH later and that's why they are selling the QLED with the option to swap out to uOLED later.

They never mentioned the FOV for the uOLED which will likely be much smaller. There is no capacity or even availability in uOLED displays that would allow them to remotely match what they have with the Crystal now for FOV. They will be smaller. Unless like the 12K they push it back a couple more years.

I still think Pimax has yet to prove they can create a decent lens with a wider FOV.

I think the VR1 is real and will actually be out soon and Pimax pulled the marketing team together to check every box out there and try to get people to delay buying other products.

We'll see the Crystal Lite this year. The rest is marketing. Time will tell.

 

[gamma123152]

I think the uOLED will come MUCH later and that's why they are selling the QLED with the option to swap out to uOLED later.

They never mentioned the FOV for the uOLED which will likely be much smaller. There is no capacity or even availability in uOLED displays that would allow them to remotely match what they have with the Crystal now for FOV. They will be smaller. Unless like the 12K they push it back a couple more years.

I still think Pimax has yet to prove they can create a decent lens with a wider FOV.

I think the VR1 is real and will actually be out soon and Pimax pulled the marketing team together to check every box out there and try to get people to delay buying other products.

We'll see the Crystal Lite this year. The rest is marketing. Time will tell.

Agree, yes the FoV for the uOLED will probably be to small, I expect the same FoV as the crystal has now. But the new QLED panels are ~30% bigger than the current ones and their new glass lens design sounds logical/as an proper upgrade over the current 104FoV lenses, also 30% bigger and with a double stacked design. 150 FoV doesn't sound believable but I don't expect that it's much less than 120-125 FoV and that combined with a MUCH higher resolution, new technology (so probably even better colors) and much more dimming zones and that for ~half the price (and no battery/standalone issues anymore), its simply very competitive, the VR1 just looks like a bad deal now.

Agree, I also expect that the QLED comes first and that the uOLED will come later. I think QLED in 24 uOLED in 25.

I also agree with you that Pimax came now, rushed, with this info to make people stop to purchase the VR1. They probably succeeded with that.

 

[blekenbleu]

There is no capacity or even availability in uOLED displays that would allow them to remotely match what they have with the Crystal now for FOV.

At least in theory, there is no reason constraining µOLED panel usage only to pancake lenses;
aspheric triplets could yield larger FoVs while forfeiting small HMD form factor.

 

[RCHeliguy]

At least in theory, there is no reason constraining µOLED panel usage only to pancake lenses;
aspheric triplets could yield larger FoVs while forfeiting small HMD form factor.

That's absolutely true, but uOLED panels are still small compared to miniLED panels.

All that said...

For many years with my Index I said I wasn't itchy and the same is now true of me now with my Beyond. I'm just happy not to be in the rat race right now. My "hope" is that by the time I'm itchy again "high performance" DFR will be supported by the titles I care about, we are a couple GPU's along and a VR headset that really grabs me is announced. I still find it all interesting, but nothing I want for myself.

 

[Neilski]

The VR1 will pretty well max out a 5090.

problem is that unless you are only playing DCS, a 15Mp display will need to wait for a 6090

I'm assuming/hoping that both of the above are only true in the absence of DFR, and that adding DFR is enough to cut the GPU requirements by a couple of classes...

At least in theory, there is no reason constraining µOLED panel usage only to pancake lenses;
aspheric triplets could yield larger FoVs while forfeiting small HMD form factor.

This comment reminds me that one of the limitations when designing an optical system is the flatness or otherwise of the object surface and another is the directionality of the light leaving that surface (e.g. you'd love all of the light from your panel to just want to head towards your lens, but in reality the light from a flat panel will be brightest when viewing perpendicular to the panel). A curved OLED panel might dramatically change/simplify the VR optics...
(Cough: having written that, I decided that curved panels for VR might already be a thing, so I googled "curved oled panel for vr headset" and found hits from literally a decade ago Am still not sure if any shipping headsets use curved panels tho.)

 

[Leynad777]

The VR1 is getting real 125-130 hFOV and appears to be sharper than the Crystal.

Pimax attempted a wide FOV lens and it appears not to be very good and only reached 115 hFOV.

Did they just sandbag on the lens for the Crystal, hiding their true lens expertise? Or do they not really know how to create a sharp 130 hFOV lens ?

The VR1 will pretty well max out a 5090.

The Super has very similar specs to the XR4 and very likely will have a similar FOV about 115 hFOV. The problem is that unless you are only playing DCS, a 15Mp display will need to wait for a 6090 to actually drive it.

At this point I'm pretty sure the VR 1 will be a pretty big step up from a Crystal.

The Super falls into a category like the XR4 where we are so far behind the GPU to push it, that I don't see the point. I also will never see a VR headset as future proof or an investment, so buying something with the hope a GPU released 2 years later will drive it well doesn't make a lot of sense.

We all know your VR1 assumptions are based on the opinion of one guy on the Internet and don't believe the two others who roasted it. And certainly nothing strange about a CEO doing hours of fanboy videos about the Apple Vision Pro and almost nothing about his own headset. And how do you get this 125-130 hFOV if the only measurement I know of is just 108 hFOV and in the same ballpark like the Index? And what's good about it if this hFOV is made with the obvious side effects of disturbing barrel distortion and chromatic aberration?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Let's see what happens when the VR1 gets into people's hands.

I know a number of people who have a VR1 pre-ordered and a couple were one of the first 100 orders. I'm sure I'll hear lots back pretty soon after they start shipping.

Believe what you want, but keep in mind that this guy you don't believe also has been a big proponent of the Crystal and what he is saying carries weight.

The best information I have to date leads me to believe the VR1 is a solid improvement over the Crystal.

 

[blekenbleu]

light from a flat panel will be brightest when viewing perpendicular to the panel

... but light perpendicular to a lens' surface is not refracted.
Not all rays exit perpendicularly from panels; a nearest lens with large aperture
(called "collector" in microscopy) will be more efficient,
with second surface increasing field size for larger field of view,
requiring a larger second ("field") lens.

 

[Leynad777]

The best information I have to date leads me to believe the VR1 is a solid improvement over the Crystal.

If that's true, I guess we would hear it from more than one source.

 

[metalnwood]

If that's true, I guess we would hear it from more than one source.

It may very well be true but they are in the same boat as everyone else, trying to keep interest in a product that is just around the corner and my guess is that they have found someone who is prepared to say the good and hold back on the bad and thats what they feel is better than letting others have a look.
To be fair he was honest and stated a few times he is holding back on the bad as he was assured that things would be improved and he had seen improvements so was able to take them on their word that improvments were coming.

It seems true that the other people that did have a look and were more critical are now out of the loop. Even if it is only one or two other people looking that would appear to be a very good thing as Arthur from somnium pretty much called it perfect before he let people see it, a number of faults were found and they have done considerable work in that space - where Arthur did not see a problem or at least didnt telegraph it.

I think they will get there with a good headset no doubt. The only thing will be, is it worth it to you. Its price takes it too far away for me to consider for racing while pimax is addressing many concerns that people have about the prices going up all the time. At the same time giving you more than mass produced headsets.

 

[Leynad777]

It may very well be true

I hope it for Somnium, but if you watch those previews I've linked already, it doesn't look like it. If relatively small YouTubers get the privilege by a company to test their product, including flight, hotel etc. and two out of three of them announce very straight that they didn't like the product for very similar reasons, I don't give a damn what the 3rd guy is saying if it contradicts it.

And the chromatic aberration was already bad with the plastic lenses Pimax was using and replacing later on, so I guess the VR1 suffers from the same problems because they probably use the same display than the Crystal. You need distortions to 'convert' a 1:1 pixel-ratio into any other FOV-ratio and aspheric plastic lenses have severe disadvantages.

 

[RCHeliguy]

And here is where the disinformation by Pimax about plastic lenses starts to show up.

It's absolutely incorrect and has nothing to do with using plastic or glass.

The current VR1 lenses with no Amalence software running are supposed to have LESS CA than the current Pimax glass lenses with Amalence software fixing CA.

 

[Leynad777]

And here is where the disinformation by Pimax about plastic lenses starts to show up.

It's absolutely incorrect and has nothing to do with using plastic or glass.

The current VR1 lenses with no Amalence software running are supposed to have LESS CA than the current Pimax glass lenses with Amalence software fixing CA.

So if two of three testers experience extreme CA with those lenses, they suffer from hallucinations?

 

[RCHeliguy]

So if two of three testers experience extreme CA with those lenses, they suffer from hallucinations?

You are basing that on an early test version of the lenses. There have had many iterations since then. All will be pretty obvious when they ship, but I think they stand a much better chance of setting new standards in sharpness and lack of CA etc than Pimax does.

Let's table this conjecture until they are released. Then all should be pretty obvious and it will just be fact rather than what source of information we believe or don't believe.

Seems like they should be coming soon as the final bits are checked off. 98Vx136H Not bad.

 

[Leynad777]

You are basing that on an early test version of the lenses. There have had many iterations since then. All will be pretty obvious when they ship, but I think they stand a much better chance of setting new standards in sharpness and lack of CA etc than Pimax does.

Let's table this conjecture until they are released. Then all should be pretty obvious and it will just be fact rather than what source of information we believe or don't believe.

Seems like they should be coming soon as the final bits are checked off. 98Vx136H Not bad.
View attachment 747173

So when is the VR1-release? Must be quite soon if it's as good as you think...
VoodooDE VR got other values with this super early version 3-4 months ago and again: There is IMO no way you get proper visuals and this FOV with 1:1 pixel-ratio displays and proper binocular overlap. This is physically impossible. The 8KX has the widest FOV because each display has a 16:9 ratio. The Crystal has the best visuals because it is basically 1:1 FOV according to the pixel-ratio. For their wider FOV-lenses they reduced the binocular overlap and the other alternative is to distort the image. Most reviewers don't like any of those methods. There is no magic Somnium way stretching their 1:1 displays image into this 14:10 ratio without major sacrifices.

 

[RCHeliguy]

We'll see soon enough.