PC1 Is Project Cars realistic?

[Dan Allen]

Don't worry...

 

[SwaggerJacker]

What four have better AI? Of course this is subjective, but I'm curious in regards to your true stance on the game. Thanks

 

[Kurupt CDN]

yes please do let me know, I know what you mean, believe me I started tons of thread on the official pcars forum, before i got hate mails/ pm's there by fanboys, I think with me just having moved to PC platform and not knowing what is out there and what AI is capable of, have maybe jumped the gun. i played a lot of PC (good old microprose days) but then deployed/ overseas for over 10 years, so i got into consoles (either to take everywhere) so got used to that and not many racing sims/ racing games on consoles. at least proper ones, until pcars on consoles. all ears, let me know since i am getting into all the PC games now, new and old.

biggest problem i still have with pcars, again coming from consoles, is their FFB per vehicle and being able to adjust global FFB to how personally you feel is good and how a car feels...i just don't get it how that works and how that is realistic or fantastic...i spent hundreds of hours on FFB but never got the BMW Z4 GT3 to feel and drive like in real life....?!??!?! not sure how people do it...i gave up on pcars FFB system! (absolutely ZERO from SMS studio, in regards to help or handbook on FFB system)

The point behind individual ffb was to allow each user to setup the ffb to make it feel how they believe the car feels like, personally I find the base ffb settings fine and give me the details I need to get the car around the track. I copied the following from the gsc forum which had a little piece from niels the physics developer for reiza which pretty much sums up all ffb discussions.

Niels Reiza

FFB discussionsare a blend of informative, entertaining and most of all subjective!

Someone will talk about what they feel in sim X, what they lack in sim Y...
Someone else will say exactly the opposite.

I've been fortunate enough to work with F3 / GP2 drivers and sim engineers. Their drivers will have totally differentopinions on the sim FFB feel despite driving the same car in real life. The strength driver 1 will say is real is totally different from driver 2. Even the feeling when driving results in 2 very different opinions.

It is *very* hard to isolate the feel of one component in the car when driving being hot, working against G forces, bouncing around...

Not to be negative towards us simracers but if pro drivers don't know what it should feel like, we stand no chance ourselves! Plus these pro drivers use high end direct drive wheels which only very few of us can afford.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Pcars is pure simcade.

 

[ouvert]

What four have better AI? Of course this is subjective, but I'm curious in regards to your true stance on the game. Thanks

Of course it is subjective, but:
Game Stock Car, R3E, rF2 and this one would be hard to swallow but I was always surprised by GTR Evo ..
I had one of best the AI races in pCars but in general, the AI is just bad, inconsistent across sessions, tracks, cars, not really aware of you, slow, brake checking in nonsense corners, just being dick, behaving like drunk kids in MP, inpredictable, cheating, ..
And before you start to think that I`m just not threating them right, giving them space, etc .. nope, the only reason I can still enjoy pC is that I kind of learned to stay away from them, to take different lines cause I know if I stay in mine, I would be crushed by blind AI and mostly basically by hotlapping ahead of them ..

But all AIs has their good and bad sides.. to be hones ...

 

[jimbob999999]

Pcars is pure simcade.

Please tell us the best simulator out there that gets everything right oh wait.....
These racing simulators are nothing but games and they ain't even able to recreate a realistic and accurate driving and racing experience so why bother go on about that some racing sim is arcade. It's just a massive joke if you have ever driven a real car then you would obviously know that no current sim available to consumers is realistic at all.

 

[SwaggerJacker]

Of course it is subjective, but:
Game Stock Car, R3E, rF2 and this one would be hard to swallow but I was always surprised by GTR Evo ..
I had one of best the AI races in pCars but in general, the AI is just bad, inconsistent across sessions, tracks, cars, not really aware of you, slow, brake checking in nonsense corners, just being dick, behaving like drunk kids in MP, inpredictable, cheating, ..
And before you start to think that I`m just not threating them right, giving them space, etc .. nope, the only reason I can still enjoy pC is that I kind of learned to stay away from them, to take different lines cause I know if I stay in mine, I would be crushed by blind AI and mostly basically by hotlapping ahead of them ..

But all AIs has their good and bad sides.. to be hones ...

Thanks.

 

[ouvert]

Please tell us the best simulator out there that gets everything right oh wait.....
These racing simulators are nothing but games and they ain't even able to recreate a realistic and accurate driving and racing experience so why bother go on about that some racing sim is arcade. It's just a massive joke if you have ever driven a real car then you would obviously know that no current sim available to consumers is realistic at all.

Well that mostly comes down to cars in games having similar input (forces, physics with extremely different output (ffb wheel, motion rigs) .. So even if somebody code perfect physics (i believe that for our purposes some are doing reasonable good job) it will be nowhere near driving real car...

 

[ouvert]

Thanks.

But eventhough it is still kind of work in progress, you probably don't wanna miss Assetto Corsa.
In my opinion you should get :

- Stock car extreme (former game stock car) for overall great package

- Sim Bin bundle on steam (gtr evo, expansion, i think gtr2 too), for that few bucks you ll get a lot of fun, lot of content, lot of nostalgia (i guess not in your case ), nice package that holds even today, lots of mods

- Assetto Corsa, different approach, scanned tracks(sadly not that many of them but there are some good modded) , licenses for some not that common cars, different approach by devs

- dirt rally if you are into rally, probably best try since RBR, big surprise considering codemasters are behind it.

With rF2 it is hard, great ffb, superb physics, best ai but lacking in original content

Iracing only if you are really into online racing

R3E.. You can try for free before you pay for content so worth trying... I have bad issues with ffb in this game so I'm waiting with lots of track and cars to drive till they fix it

But that is just what suits me, lot of those games you can try for free so give them a shot

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Please tell us the best simulator out there that gets everything right oh wait.....
These racing simulators are nothing but games and they ain't even able to recreate a realistic and accurate driving and racing experience so why bother go on about that some racing sim is arcade. It's just a massive joke if you have ever driven a real car then you would obviously know that no current sim available to consumers is realistic at all.

There's a difference between the limitations of not being able to achieve 100% accuracy and not even making the attempt, and pcars is without question a simcade driving model that happens to have ffb problems as well.

Based on my own experiences, and also discussing the ISI physics engine with computer simulation experts, games like SCE/RF2/GTR EVO are very close....not all values are as accurate as could be, but they're miles apart from these shift2/3 simcades for the casual gamer driving models.

U can believe whatever u want, but in general, most of the pc sims can legitimately qualify as close enough, but games like dirt3 and shift3 are casual gamer physics built to tickle the casual gamer rather than satisfy those who favour heavy realism.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I should also add that most casual gamers will mention superior weather effects, road textures etc, but this is at the expense of the physics and quality ffb calibrations, iow, nothing more than ole fashioned gfx whoring.

 

[poet]

Physics are not FFB, as soon as you confuse the two I stop taking you seriously.
Joystick wobble has no effect on the physical handling characteristics of a simulated vehicle.
Troll on however.

 

[Peter Klawitter]

wow! ...and I thought the official pcars sms and f1 2015 codemasters forum is bad with peoples tone, posts and quality of discussion...

regardless, nothing is and will be like sitting in a real racing car! that is a given, but since that is an expensive hobby and can't do it all the time, at least for me the only way to get my satisfaction, is on my PC with any of the race games...yes games, and to me doesn't matter which one. only complain I have is that pcars is way too complicated to setup FFB for wheel and for each car.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Physics are not FFB, as soon as you confuse the two I stop taking you seriously.
Joystick wobble has no effect on the physical handling characteristics of a simulated vehicle.
Troll on however.

Not sure who would care what you think, but since when is a simulation credible with dodgy controller settings?.....as if anyone in their right mind would read the BS advertising about "best physics ever", and then not be disappointed or question the truth value of the underlying coding calibrations, and btw, learn what ffb calibrations are before making ass-umptions about what I'm saying.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

. only complain I have is that pcars is way too complicated to setup FFB for wheel and for each car.

yep, it's not easy when the physics are all over the shop....

 

[jimbob999999]

There's a difference between the limitations of not being able to achieve 100% accuracy and not even making the attempt, and pcars is without question a simcade driving model that happens to have ffb problems as well.

Based on my own experiences, and also discussing the ISI physics engine with computer simulation experts, games like SCE/RF2/GTR EVO are very close....not all values are as accurate as could be, but they're miles apart from these shift2/3 simcades for the casual gamer driving models.

U can believe whatever u want, but in general, most of the pc sims can legitimately qualify as close enough, but games like dirt3 and shift3 are casual gamer physics built to tickle the casual gamer rather than satisfy those who favour heavy realism.

I should also add that most casual gamers will mention superior weather effects, road textures etc, but this is at the expense of the physics and quality ffb calibrations, iow, nothing more than ole fashioned gfx whoring.

I don't agree on the simcade outlook but by that logic I can say Rfactor 2, PCars, Dirt Rally and AC are arcade because they don't match real life in every single way but guess what I don't because they all attempt to simulate it in their own way therefore they are all sim's regardless of there accuracy.

The simcade bullshit is just a excuse to bash on a sim's supposed level of authenticity according to the individuals perception of how the game is in there view of a racing or driving simulator. So in general who decided these sim's mentioned in my first line were close enough to reality? Rabid fanboys? Hardcore simracers who have never driven a car?

The graphics are processed by the GPU and the physics, FFB, Telemetry and car interaction data is processed by the CPU as far as I know so technically it is possible to have a good looking simulator with a physics engine that is very good.

Please David stop making a joke of yourself you ain't even qualified to talk about physics and guess what nether is 90%* of simracers myself included.

*The value given is a estimate

 

[jimbob999999]

wow! ...and I thought the official pcars sms and f1 2015 codemasters forum is bad with peoples tone, posts and quality of discussion...

regardless, nothing is and will be like sitting in a real racing car! that is a given, but since that is an expensive hobby and can't do it all the time, at least for me the only way to get my satisfaction, is on my PC with any of the race games...yes games, and to me doesn't matter which one. only complain I have is that pcars is way too complicated to setup FFB for wheel and for each car.

+1 but it does get annoying to hear rabid simracers go on about how there sim is so accurate and real when it's nothing compared to real life. It's just a game so enjoy it, no need to brag about how sim a is so good and everything else is arcade.

 

[SwaggerJacker]

But eventhough it is still kind of work in progress, you probably don't wanna miss Assetto Corsa.
In my opinion you should get :

- Stock car extreme (former game stock car) for overall great package

- Sim Bin bundle on steam (gtr evo, expansion, i think gtr2 too), for that few bucks you ll get a lot of fun, lot of content, lot of nostalgia (i guess not in your case ), nice package that holds even today, lots of mods

- Assetto Corsa, different approach, scanned tracks(sadly not that many of them but there are some good modded) , licenses for some not that common cars, different approach by devs

- dirt rally if you are into rally, probably best try since RBR, big surprise considering codemasters are behind it.

With rF2 it is hard, great ffb, superb physics, best ai but lacking in original content

Iracing only if you are really into online racing

R3E.. You can try for free before you pay for content so worth trying... I have bad issues with ffb in this game so I'm waiting with lots of track and cars to drive till they fix it

But that is just what suits me, lot of those games you can try for free so give them a shot

I have these. I Beta test for Sector 3. I have played the Simbin games in the past. Was thoroughly disappointed with their first Xbox game. Their AI in the GTR days was pretty good. It seems, however, that AI has not progressed since. Seems strange. Then again, I don't write code.

To David, we get it. You don't care for the game.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

+go on about how there sim is so accurate and real when it's nothing compared to real life

Where are you getting your information from?
One more thing, I stick up for PC sim racing as I consider the notion of multiplatform being a sim as silly beyond belief.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Please David stop making a joke of yourself you ain't even qualified to talk about physics and guess what nether is 90%* of simracers myself included.

*The value given is a estimate

IOW, you've decided that gfx whoring is cool, and anyone who might want to champion realism is deluded despite you having absolutely no way of knowing.
One of my modder buddies is PAID by professional race teams to build race cars....do you think he just guesses the numbers?...it takes him a month to research/build one car.

 

[poet]

Well my friend is super top chief adviser to Ferrari's F1 team and McLaren too, and BMW's LMP team, and all the top TC teams and the best Nascar teams too, so that makes me super important too and therefore I win