Heel & Toe...really works with Race07 ?

[mcwood]

Hi every members of RD

Actaully, my real car for going to work is an automatic SUV.
so, i don't know anything about manual gear technique like heel & toe.

However, i have watched some of good movies in YouTube for learning it.
and tryied a clumsy heel & toe looking technique by myself...and uploaded it.

Please check my movie and give me any advice for my progress.
like " Don't even think about it!!...or what are you doing ?!?! "

I really want to know about this technique...

thanks ahead for your a kind advice for a novice.

 

[Brendan Crosby]

-I'll just say this before others do. Heel & Toe doesn't make you faster in the game. The cars have been made for the auto-clutch setting and so it's unnecessary. Personally I don't care it's still very fun and I've even used it in club races here at RD.

-Now about you're technique. You want to keep the brake position the same while you press the throttle with your heel. This is the most difficult part of the technique and is something I haven't perfected yet.

-Left foot braking in the middle and exit of a corner is unnecessary in a rear wheel drive car. With front wheel drive, left foot braking is an essential technique for counteracting the inherent understeer of FWD. With RWD it causes understeer which can be useful for catching extreme oversteer events.

 

[mcwood]

Thanks for your kind advice.

I just have started manual mode 2 weeks ago, before that i was used to only paddle shifting auto clutch with G25.
As you explained me, i have no progress in lap time campare to before, But it's Really fun and feel like dancing when doing heel & toe.

and i really appreciate your point out, actually as a novice, it's little bit difficult to understand it with my shallow knowledge.
so, i need to learn more and more about it.

Thank you very much.

 

[Jim Cole]

I have not watched the video of your technique, but keep in mind that "heel and toe" does not necessarily mean to use the heel for one pedal and the toe for the other. There are quite a number of drivers that balance their foot on both pedals and roll the foot on the throttle to "blip" the throttle for downshifts. This technique usually requires that the brake pedal at full depression be about the same height as the throttle at full off or 0% throttle. Most gaming pedals like to have all the pedals at the same height when nothing is pressing against them so this is an issue that is tough to overcome. Getting a pedal set that is adjustable or even separate to where you can mount them in such a way to achieve this is beneficial for using this technique.

After watching the video I see you are mostly using left foot braking and that can be quite beneficial, but difficult to master. Left foot braking is best used if you don't have to worry about a clutch as well. If you prefer to use the clutch, then refer to what I was talking about above

 

[mcwood]

Thank you too.

Especially your comment ' This technique usually requires that the brake pedal at full depression be about the same height as the throttle at full off or 0% throttle.' ,<--- this is what i need to think about, cos i have seen them from YouTube movie.
Real drivers have specific design padal sets, i found, more easy to do Heel & Toe.

And also found that they do not step on clutch at all when do upshifting,
only use clutch when they do down shifting and heel & toe.(for Dogbox gear helps?)

Anyway, left foot braking and heel & toe is really an attractive tachnique.

Thanks for a kind explanation.

 

[Jim Cole]

Shifting without a clutch on the up shift is easy I drive a semi for a living so I have done it thousands of times. It is harder to do downshifts without a doubt. In order to do an up shift, you put slight pressure on the shifter as you are letting off the throttle to make the shift, when the rpm is right, the shifter just falls out of gear and as the rpm drops even more it will fall into the next gear as long as you have gentle pressure on the stick moving towards that gear. If needed, you can blip the throttle while the gear is in neutral to get the rpm's back up above where it needs to be so it will fall down into the gear. Care should be taken though, because if you don't get it right, you will grind the gears and this is not good on the transmission. I have driven a regular car this way too and it does work, but the rpm's move quicker so you have to be good

 

[mcwood]

You doing it on your own car ? if it cause some trouble, you don't care ?

Actually, i had a manual stick gear car about 20 years ago.
but in my country, there's a lots of roads are on small hill or slope, not much of plain road.
so, i have almost no memory of manual mission car except having a horrible difficulty when i start it middle of hill.

Anyway the reason why i love simracing is there's no need to be die during racing or
also no need to submit any problem to cause pay money for car. ^.,^;;

 

[Jim Cole]

I was careful about doing it in my own car heheh. It actually works well, but I am a lot slower shifting without the clutch on a car than I am with a clutch. Of course the transmission in the car having syncromesh gears helps out quite a bit, something you won't find in a large truck. And yes, I have done both upshift and downshift in cars as well as trucks.

But you are right in that you will not die or cost yourself money other than if you have a heart attack while playing, or have to upgrade the computer to handle the games you are playing

 

[Marian Zelenka]

But heel toe is also supposed to saving a car, or not? It's also used in endurance series. When you don't use clutch properly, your rpm are jumping fast and your car is jumping, you may be damaging the car. In our car is impossible to make proper hell toe, but I'm trying to use it.

 

[Jim Cole]

Heel and toe is a way to ensure that when you downshift you are not putting a lot of load on the engine and drive tires all at once. By increasing the revs during a downshift it allows the engine to sync better and faster preventing for the most part the drive tires from skidding due to them being forced to run slower than the car is traveling.

 

[Marian Zelenka]

Yes, I know that. But side effect is saving, or not?

 

[Jim Cole]

Using Heel and Toe will save your tires, save your engine and save your lap times as well. In game though it won't save anything on lap times as you don't need a clutch to shift so you can left foot brake and accomplish the same thing.

 

[Hugo Hekkenberg]

I always drive the Race On series without the auto clutch off and with the clutch + H shifter. In some GT cars i have to heel toe shift (only the rear wheel cars) for example the Camaro Race (the mod of Guntar).when a car has longer gears the rear wheels are going to slide in the lower gears (1 and 2). But i know for sure that somebody with the flippers and auto clutch with the same skills as i have is faster. maybe not faster but more consistent

In rFactor (V8's or NAGT) i constantly have to heel toe shift because of the loose rear end. Faster, no... But for me its so much funnnnnnn.....

 

[Jim Cole]

Exactly Hugo, it isn't about the savings or the quickness, it is about the fun and immersion.

 

[Freddie Besems]

maybe you can studie this one.

 

[mcwood]

Thanks...

But he don't use left foot for braking, only blip gas at the out of corner.
is it kind a preference differs from drivers? or left braking is not that much useful?
in my case, Heel & toe really useful for driving in rainy track more stabilized braking before corner.

anyway he killed by an accident at Imola...feel sorry.

this video shows an end of Heel & Toe technique...he he he ^.,^;;
(Big & little toe technique)

Is he a naked driver???(where he get the camera!? >_<)

 

[Jim Cole]

I drive exclusively using left foot braking. I do that in real life and it translates to the sim world with no issues. I am dressed however when I do race, though I don't wear anything on my feet Regardless of how you start doing it, practice is what is going to make it smoother and better. I have driven in RL for 36 years and almost all of it has been with left foot braking. The advantages of an automatic transmission heheh.

 

[mcwood]

When i get in race at a dedicated server, i trying to use sequential and manual clutch for heel toe.
but, because i know well that the clutch automatically engaged for shifting, sometimes i don't step on clutch.

however, I think manual clutch setting for rear-wheel car is the best way for quick start.

now i have got the sensitivity of clutch for 20%, if i raise it over 50% and more then it works like a real manual clutch?
(actually, i don't know the exact meaning of sensitivity, what will happen if i raise it?)

 

[Jim Cole]

BTW, on a side note I do have to say when I am driving a big truck I do actually use my right foot for the brake instead of left. For some reason I only do left foot braking in an automatic when no clutch pedal is around.

 

[Marian Zelenka]

I saw V8 supercars for the first time this weekend on youtube and they also use SQ and H&T + clutch when downshifting. It's more fun this way even on PC. But you never know when you can have some oportunity to drive a racecar. You can buy a lesson, win a ride or pay for ride. It's good to be prepared. Take Greger Huttu as an example.