Gotta Love Social Media

[Omer Said]

Twitter and Facebook can be used as a dangerous manipulation and propaganda tool as it is the case on the events currently happening in Turkey. Probably you noticed the "OccupyGezi" trending topic in recent days. They spreaded lies, photoshopped photos, edited videos and used old news in twitter and stated "police are killing us bla bla.." Most of these are lies. There is currently no revolution or civil-war in Turkey. Only in a few districs, some marginal groups organize people to protest.

The sad thing is, the world believes in the **** spreaded by the liers in Twitter. I saw even Bruce Willis tweeted "We must help to Turkish people" or something. That is both funny and sad.

I have learned to never to believe anything i saw in Twitter/Facebook after this time. There is a big variety of media organs which can be used to compare/contrast to see the real picture.

About what is happening in Turkey right now: AKP, the leading party, has been elected with %45-%50 rate of votes in the latest 3 elections. They are the first party to maintain it three times, and with an increasing number of votes. This year, the government came a great deal in ending the PKK terrorism as there has been no conflicts since 5-6 months. Just as we had grasped internal peace, some people are trying to start something else to maintain chaos in our country.
Here is the reason for the stupid OccupyGezi protests:
-Cutting a dozen of trees to increase the pavement's width: AKP turned Istanbul into a green city in 10 years, yet these people are protesting them for cutting a bunch of trees to restorate a public space. Just as the protests begin, all anti-AKP gathered in Taksim and started a so called "revolution". Now for some trees, they attacked to police, they burned down shops in Taksim and burning cars of civilians. What is the point?!

They understood that they can't beat AKP with elections and try violent ways now. Please do not believe in the stupids lies at Twitter.

 

[Hiroshi Awazu]

 

[Bruno Sousa Ferreira]

This is the problem with Social media and media (news) to some extent, people tend to believe without question, without being there exactly or doing proper research into whats really happening. So they are easily manipulated and tricked which can happen to anyone.

now I'm not really sure what's going on in Turkey from the media in the UK, it looks to me just like protests but I not really sure what the protests are really about? and whom are the real architects of this and what are their motives? this are questions we should be asking when we read things like this.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

There is currently no revolution or civil-war in Turkey.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

On a serious note. I don't believe anything anymore on twitter but our national news has a reporter on site with their own camera crew and you can't ignore looking at the footage they've shot that something is going on. Although the amount of football hooligans is pretty high though.

Personally this is the first "Arab Spring" that might lead to something good as Erdogan isn't exactly a big fan of a secular state it seems. Good to see that the protesters at least want the opposite of what happened in other uprisings recently.

Also I don't think that the PKK are terrorists as you call them but people that really deserve their own state as they have a local tradition in that area that goes further back than when the Turks came to and concurred Anatolia.

 

[Omer Said]

I don't know if you are just joking or serious, but this is not funny Bram.

Personally this is the first "Arab Spring" that might lead to something good as Erdogan isn't exactly a big fan of a secular state it seems. Good to see that the protesters at least want the opposite of what happened in other uprisings recently.

In his 10 years rule, Erdogan has never attacked secularism. Come and visit here and see you for yourself if you don't believe me my friend. How can a oppressive and religious government let gay marches, lingerie billboards and fashion weeks in his rule??

I don't say "nothing is happening here", i just say that it is not a civil-war or something. They are making it seems 10 times bigger with the social media lies. I also don't defend the police using heavy force on people, but what were they expecting when they threw f-bombs, pavement stones and little taws on the police???

Right now, the police is retreated, yet they break the shops around. Damage the cars. Some of the banks are pillaged in Taksim.

Yesterday, and the day before, i was mostly outside. There is nothing wrong in the city, all is normal. Only in Taksim, Beşiktaş and Kadıköy, there are some protests. It is similar to 1 May Labor protests. But the international media and twitter exxagarate it into the levels of Civil-war or revolution.

It is not something like Arab Springs, there were dictators. Here we have a president Prime Minister elected three times with a huge majority the elections! For reason's sake, think about it...

 

[Hampus Andersson]

What´s that? Western media again blowing things out of proportion?
Now where have i heard that before...

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Omer Said

I don't understand that you say that things are exaggerated while two people I know that live in Turkey as well and say the opposite of what you are stating in your first post.

You are right that Erdogan is elected as prime minister but again there are enough signs that these elections and the especially the role of the opposition isn't very transparent.

In his recent visit to the Netherlands Erdogan more or less attacked our secularism by interfering in a dutch domestic case we had here with a turkish immigrant family whos son were placed in a fosterparents family that are lesbian (and super good parents btw) so i have my doubts if he acted like that here he won't do the same in his own country.

Not to mention the oppression of freedom of speech from journalists.

When people need to watch foreign tv news to find out what the hell is going on in their own country I think its safe to conclude something is not totally right.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Have a look at this. Izzy advised me to watch http://www.allegiancemusical.com/blog-entry/young-turks and i am sure he is okay with my quoting his facebook status:

for those, who asked me about what happens in Turkey. Take a look at the video and read the text in the blog. It describes pretty good, what led to the actual situation. spread the word. mainstream media seems to ignore the situation in Turkey.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I hope peace and rest returns soon, I really do but a prime minister putting so much brute force against its own people as we have seen on TV here the last days cannot stay in office imo.

Politicians should be the voice of reason and choose a dialogue instead of using police force.

Turkey came a long way and I for one do hope they join the EU at some point soon but not with a head of state that has some outspoken beliefs that were already old-fashioned here 100 years ago regardless if he is muslim, christian, jew or a buddhist. Politics, Law, and religion should be kept separate at all time.

 

[Omer Said]

I don't understand that you say that things are exaggerated while two people I know that live in Turkey as well and say the opposite of what you are stating in your first post.

You are right that Erdogan is elected as prime minister but again there are enough signs that these elections and the especially the role of the opposition isn't very transparent.

In his recent visit to the Netherlands Erdogan more or less attacked our secularism by interfering in domestic problems we had here with a turkish immigrant family whos son were placed in a fosterparents family that are lesbian (and super good parents btw) so i have my doubts if he acted like that here he won't do the same in his own country.

Not to mention the oppression of freedom of speech and journalism.

When people need to watch foreign tv news to find out what the hell is going on in their own country I think its safe to conclude something is not totally right.

I began to wonder whether i am really living in Istanbul or not... Elections are not transparent?! Even the most heated opposing party, CHP, has never mentioned it before. It seems our European friends can see things better from the West eh? That is right, we are orientals after all, stupid orientals.

Taking a child to a lesbian family... Well, some people have some religious/moral values and you have to respect them i think. Let's take a Dutch child to an Islamic family with a burka wearing wife, bearded husband and they are super good parents too, would you accept?

Freedom of speech is oppressed here? One of the top five newspapers, Sözcü, addresses the Prime Minister as "Tayyip" and writes anti-government headlines/news every-single-day. And this is not the only newspaper/TV with such a mindset. Those jailed journalists... They were involved in a Gladio who was supporting military strike. (Turkey had several coup de'tats already in this century) And as far as i know, EU supports that trial (Ergenekon) too. So what is wrong here? It's interesting that some journalists are in jail while some are still writing more anti-AKP than the ones jailed inside, maybe they are not involved in illegal activities like their friends in the jail.

Well, i don't need to watch foreign news. It is really strange that Norway (VG.tv) jumped here instantly to broadcast the protest. El-Cezire stating, "the last green-park in Istanbul" gave me a long rofl as well. There is a clear indication of foreign fingers in this event as we have recently got rid of PKK terrorism, we need a new internal problem here . Turkey should be stopped.

Prime Minister putting brute force on people? No one ones how the first fights began actually. They were doing sit-ins on the Gezi Park while the police forces just stand around to avoid any violence. Then suddenly it began. We have a fair share of marginal illegal groups in the country which can provide some nice provocation. Moreoever, Police retreated from Taksim nearly 2 days ago. Right now, the police is trying to stop some small marginal groups who try to attack Ministry office and some police stations and the ones who block highways and provoke people. Also do you see the pictures of burned cars, buses? Destroyed pavements? Shattered billboards? Police should watch and let these happen all around the place right? O.K, the PM sounded stupid in some of his speeches, he doesn't know how to use right words or talk nicely, a brute-mouth many times. But actions speak louder than words, and last 10 years gave Turkey only progress. We closed our debt to IFM, our credit note is greatly increased, the number of universities are tripled, number of media organs doubled, municipital problems are handled and this Taksim Gezi Park RESTORATION, not "destruction", was one of them. To let you see the change: In 2000, Turkey's economy was worse than today's Greek. Also, if the situation was so serious here, would he go to Morocco for a diplomatic meeting today?

Turkey came a long way and I for one do hope they join the EU at some point soon but not with a head of state that has some outspoken beliefs that were already old-fashioned here 100 years ago.

This mindset boggles me greatly. "Be like us, or you are 100 years behind" I hope we will never join to the EU if they are mostly thinking like you, Bram.

Please don't think my rather aggressive manner as personal, Friendship is something, defending your country's image and your beliefs is something. I'm really fed up with this media propaganda in recent days. I'm so much fed up that i plan to go Taksim tomorrow and shot photos personally to prove there is not a serious rebellion here to you. 1000 people are burning something, BOOM! The people are uprising! Never mind the rest of the million of people in the city...

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Please don't think my rather aggressive manner as personal,

Not at all Please do the same with Bagdad Bob

Taking a child to a lesbian family... Well, some people have some religious/moral values and you have to respect them i think. Let's take a Dutch child to an Islamic family with a burka wearing wife, bearded husband and they are super good parents too, would you accept?

If that Dutch family emigrated to Turkey and became Turkish citizens and there refused to assimilate causing problems and on top of that physically abuse and neglect their own child I think every well thinking person would be happy if that child is temporary adopted by a warm and caring family regardless their religious, political or sexual beliefs.

In this case the family really had a long tradition of problems and mr president of a country that has zero nada nothing to say about dutch citizens or laws feels he must to spread his morals on us so the cultural and religious identity of the kid can be preserved? In this case culture and religion are leading and more important than the safety and health of a young kid?

If i were the Dutch prime minister I would have told Erdogan to mind his own business in his own country and kick him on the first plane back to Turkey for deliberately interfering in domestic issues. Instead our awesome government actually put it on the agenda to seriously discuss it.

But we are getting off topic.

 

[Omer Said]

If that Dutch family emigrated to Turkey and became Turkish citizens and there refused to assimilate causing problems and on top of that physically abuse and neglect their own child I think every well thinking person would be happy if that child is temporary adopted by a warm and caring family regardless their religious, political or sexual beliefs.

In this case the family really had a long tradition of problems and mr president of a country that has zero nada nothing to say about dutch citizens or laws feels he must to spread his morals on us so the cultural and religious identity of the kid can be preserved? In this case culture and religion are leading and more important than the safety and health of a young kid?

While i understand the family's concern for having their child taken to a lesbian family, it seems to me now that the Turkish PM's interference in this and the family's mistakes in their rearing are unacceptable, i have to agree with that. I would not be happy having a foreign minister fiddle into my country's affairs, and also that family had to pay for their neglect. But it is a really nice thing that your gov. seriously discussed it, especially something good for many immigrants there. In back, hopefully they will adapt to your society, at least learn and respect your ways. Maybe leaving that scary burka would be a good step.

That is the point, that is how the things should be handled. Here as well, no need to burn/break down everything around, especially as there is an elections in two years, just do your propaganda. Our PM also should have been more sensitive and calm on his speeches towards these protests, but hopefully his cabinet and the President Gül are more sensitive and talk/act nicely towards this protest. If these false news on Twitter like "police killed 15 high school kids" or "police started shooting real bullets" could stop, it would help as well...

 

[Hampus Andersson]

All i can say is don´t join the EU...

We have Britain who want out, Sweden really don´t want to be in EU except our politicians.
Then i read 3 days ago that a country cannot leave the EU by itself.
It needs a yes from every single nation in EU in order to leave and not get fined massively.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Omer Said

99% of the Turkish immigrants in the Netherlands are perfectly fine integrated. They work, study,, share and also important adapt culture and have enriched our society for sure. Of course you'll always have the exception of the small minority but you see that same behavior with a small group of natives as well, like in any country. It are more other groups causing huge problems here.

With regards to the topic. How come the president of Turkey has a total different approach as the prime minister? Seems to me at least he is more open to reason and a dialogue with the "people". Is he a ceremonial president like in president or does he really have some power?

Hampus Andersson

I think the EU in its current form is too much focused on copying the US of A which will never work with all the different languages, cultures and stage of development. To me the USA looks for more homogeneous when you look at all the individual states.

We have tried too much in too little time and are now facing the consequences financially.

Does a country really needs an approval from each member state? Source? That would be totally hilarious as the weaker countries will never allow the cornerstone countries of the EU to leave then. No wonder Germany, France and UK do whatever is possible to gain more control then.

I still hope the EU will eventually work and if not I am all in favor of a smaller union with equal developed countries.

Makes me angry that we have paid literally thousands and thousands of euros in the last three years per capita to support countries like Greece and that after all this time just only recently the sign came they are actually changing stuff.

Hopefully the politicians stick to their promise that Greece have to pay back every cent of the support and if not I really don't mind having a couple of those fabulous island as a compensation

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Hampus Andersson

I think the EU in its current form is too much focused on copying the US of A which will never work with all the different languages, cultures and stage of development. To me the USA looks for more homogeneous when you look at all the individual states.

We have tried too much in too little time and are now facing the consequences financially.

Does a country really needs an approval from each member state? Source? That would be totally hilarious as the weaker countries will never allow the cornerstone countries of the EU to leave then. No wonder Germany, France and UK do whatever is possible to gain more control then.

I still hope the EU will eventually work and if not I am all in favor of a smaller union with equal developed countries.

Makes me angry that we have paid literally thousands and thousands of euros in the last three years per capita to support countries like Greece and that after all this time just only recently the sign came they are actually changing stuff.

Hopefully the politicians stick to their promise that Greece have to pay back every cent of the support and if not I really don't mind having a couple of those fabulous island as a compensation

I tried to find the article i read but then i gave up and simply typed in withdrawal from EU and read the Wiki page.

It seems that it was true before the treaty of Lisbon came into effect 2009 so i assume the article i wrote is pre-09.

Before the Treaty of Lisbon entered into force on 1 December 2009 no provision in the treaties or law of the EU outlined the ability of a state to voluntarily withdraw from the EU.

But even with the treaty it´s not just sending a letter saying you´ll withdraw your membership.

The Treaty of Lisbon introduced an exit clause for members who wish to withdraw from the Union. Under TEU Article 50, a Member State would notify the European Council of its intention to secede from the Union and a withdrawal agreement would be negotiated between the Union and that State. The Treaties would cease to be applicable to that State from the date of the agreement or, failing that, within two years of the notification unless the State and the Council both agree to extend this period. The agreement is concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council and shall set out the arrangements for withdrawal, including a framework for the State's future relationship with the Union. The agreement is to be approved by the Council, acting by qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament. A former Member State seeking to rejoin the European Union would be subject to the same conditions as any other applicant country.
This system gives a negotiated withdrawal, due to the complexities of leaving the EU (particularly concerning the euro). However it does include in it a strong implication of a unilateral right to withdraw. This is through the fact the state would decide "in accordance with its own constitutional requirements" and that the end of the treaties' application in said state is not dependent on any agreement being reached (it would occur after two years regardless).[1]

So it´s really not in the countries hand whether they will be able to leave or not.
It sounds much better but it is of no real guarantee that you can actually leave the union if you so wish.


It´s also quite funny reading on the UK situation where a number of polls shows that there is a small majority that do not want to be involved with the EU yet Cameron refers to a referendum from 1975 saying that´s what the people of today thinks. And this was before it was called EU.

Makes me angry that we have paid literally thousands and thousands of euros in the last three years per capita to support countries like Greece and that after all this time just only recently the sign came they are actually changing stuff.

Hopefully the politicians stick to their promise that Greece have to pay back every cent of the support and if not I really don't mind having a couple of those fabulous island as a compensation

The reason they are in the gutter is probably because of EU.
Now they are in debt like nothing else as well.

Most of the things EU has done well could have been accomplished without it.
It´s a sinking ship and more people are starting to realize it.

 

[Omer Said]

Omer Said

With regards to the topic. How come the president of Turkey has a total different approach as the prime minister? Seems to me at least he is more open to reason and a dialogue with the "people". Is he a ceremonial president like in president or does he really have some power?

He has power to veto and ratificate laws. Other than that nothing significant as far as i know. As you say, more something like "ceremonial". But he really did great, summoned both the cabinet member highest after Erdogan and the major opposition party leader and talked with them to be moderate and try to calm down the protests. Today is very much calmer thanks to his approach, even tough he has not much legal authority, he used some initiative it seems Protests are ending, only some illegal groups try to do some provocation in the little streets sorrounding Taksim and in Izmir as it is a mostly leftist city. Another important point is that not a single bullet was fired by the police forces, while unfortunately there is two death protesters and the one whos head is bashed by something, currently in autopsy. Some policeman's hard reaction is also under investigation by the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

 

[Tom]

So now that there's peace and the likes...can I go to the kebab place around the corner without feeling guilty?

 

[Omer Said]

So now that there's peace and the likes...can I go to the kebab place around the corner without feeling guilty?

Anytime my friend Anytime.

 

[Lee Knight]

To tell the truth, Ive heard S.F.A here in Oz in the media, but then again I do tend to skip the lamestream propaganda channels....
Anyone else follow God on Facebook?
This is what he posted about problems in Turkey;

The co-winners of SMITE TUESDAY are the Turkish Government and CNN.

The LORD shall smite the Turkish Government! Their cruelty will be stopped by the Turkish military, working to serve the people as they have in the past. Prime Minister Erdogan will be banished from the land…after a beating or two, of course. After that he will eventually wind up in London, where he will contract syphilis from a hooker and go crazy.

And CNN will go out of business.

SMITE!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...57750900979288&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf