Cars Formula Hybrid 2017 by Race Sim Studio

[yusupov]

you can adjust ffb strength as you like. theres even a power steer adjust in the setup in addition to the car FFB gain, overall FFB gain, & profiler gains you can already tune.

what you quoted is not an excuse, its logical reasoning: by default cars should clip minimally, because anything that is clipped is lost feedback. if the overall feedback that results is too light for your taste then turn it up.

 

[garyjpaterson]

Interesting, says a lot that the response is an instant excuse. It doesn't feel stronger than the F1 2015, it feels weaker, everywhere. So what does clipping in the F1 2015 under load have to do with your mod? Basically if done correctly your mod would start to clip sooner than the F1 2015 and to compensate overall FFB could be slightly reduced so the range of feedback is better experienced. But the problem is the opposite, it is weaker and never loads up properly (short range of forces) and thus feels like a 3rd party mod with watered down physics.

Toss in a Sim2 wheel and would your mod somehow feel better or at least on par with the 2015 F1 car? No it wouldn't. It still would suffer all the same effects that it does now compared to the 2015 car. The short range of load between slow and fast corners would be even more evident.

Again, like wisely said above, well worth the beer credits, this is fun to have but it isn't on par with 1st party AC work, the sounds are, the 3D modeling is, but it is let down by the physics. The range of feedback feels like maybe 60% of what we get in the 2015 car. You can't blame that on a wheel or lack of G forces. I'm sure kids don't mind but anyone on the sim side of this hobby won't likely spend more than an hour with this mod. BTW I'm running default OOB FFB in AC.

Have you made any changes to the Steer Assist in the setup menu?

 

[David Dominguez]

Interesting, says a lot that the response is an instant excuse. It doesn't feel stronger than the F1 2015, it feels weaker, everywhere. So what does clipping in the F1 2015 under load have to do with your mod? Basically if done correctly your mod would start to clip sooner than the F1 2015 and to compensate overall FFB could be slightly reduced so the range of feedback is better experienced. But the problem is the opposite, it is weaker and never loads up properly (short range of forces) and thus feels like a 3rd party mod with watered down physics.

Because that's not how FFB is set, FFB is set so at high loadings you get max force, (or a little bit above, aka clipping). If the wheel is clipping you are missing feedback, you are just feeling something strong, but same feeling regardless or what you do.

Here you can compare both cars with FFB gain set at 100% (I did a quick test with a gamepad but doesn't matter for such test):

As you can see, our car clips a bit (bar getting red for short periods) in turn 3 and even T2, so your statement regarding forces not loading is essentially not true. On the other hand, the SF15 is massively clipping in the three corners.

If you like your wheel to just feel heavy, it's fine, and like some said you can adjust the FFB strenght easily (pressing + and - in game, settings are saved automatically) however I suggest you to read this post and think about it.

 

[pafe]

Interesting, says a lot that the response is an instant excuse.

I see no excuse actually. A little bit of clipping is what you should aim for. You loose a tiny bit of detailed FFB in 1% of the track, but have better details at the rest.
Reducing the Ferrari FFb to the same clipping-rate, it feels pretty similar.

Edit: Ok, I see its already been posted by others. Didn't see the last page.

 

[Topuz]

Because that's not how FFB is set, FFB is set so at high loadings you get max force, (or a little bit above, aka clipping). If the wheel is clipping you are missing feedback, you are just feeling something strong, but same feeling regardless or what you do.

Here you can compare both cars with FFB gain set at 100% (I did a quick test with a gamepad but doesn't matter for such test):

As you can see, our car clips a bit (bar getting red for short periods) in turn 3 and even T2, so your statement regarding forces not loading is essentially not true. On the other hand, the SF15 is massively clipping in the three corners.

If you like your wheel to just feel heavy, it's fine, and like some said you can adjust the FFB strenght easily (pressing + and - in game, settings are saved automatically) however I suggest you to read this post and think about it.

You may already know this, but before you pack data into acd, with developer apps enabled, you get a few additional buttons in the FFB strength adjustment app (Kunos' one). All Kunos cars are equalized on Vallelunga Club by letting the AI drive for a couple laps and then adjusting the internal FFB multiplier to whatever the app calculates (the auto adjust option). This will probably give you stronger FFB with more clipping since the app is quite tolerant. While Vallelunga Club is completely arbitrary choice and probably not even a very good one, you will end up with a FFB strength that is sort of equal to what you could expect if Kunos did your car.

 

[David Dominguez]

Yeah I know, and I guess that's fine when you have to do 100 cars and get some reasonable results, but it's not our case.

 

[Twofeetin]

There we go a worthwhile response, thanks Topuz.

David clipping isn't the root of all sim evil it is made out to be. Clipping at extremes provides very good feedback range in the majority of circumstances when not at those extremes. You give up a bit at one end of the spectrum to gain a lot in the middle. This is what makes the OOB (out of the box) Kunos cars so good to drive.

You have set your mods feedback to almost never clip which in your mind is better but it results in a shorter curve that feels off compared to a Kunos offering, especially as forces begin to load. I never said forces aren't loading, you are misquoting me. I clearly said, forces don't load up properly. They begin to, that is easy for anyone to feel, but because the range is basically shortened to avoid clipping that only under an extreme case will we get max load. That doesn't feel right 95% of the time, that isn't how Kunos sets their cars and that isn't by chance. Again this is why I said I feel about 60% of the range in your mod compared to driving the 2015 car.

Anyway David, I said my bit so I'm done, I appreciate the mod, I really do, and I don't expect any changes if you don't believe in them. The team deserves twice what I paid for this mod. What I do know is the 2015 F1 car feels more compelling to drive and getting your mod to that level without requiring users to mess with the default FFB settings wouldn't be such an evil thing to consider. Peace out sim racers!

 

[David Dominguez]

Clipping at extremes is what our car does. What the SF15 does is clipping at every situation almost.

 

[CC]

There we go a worthwhile response, thanks Topuz.

David clipping isn't the root of all sim evil it is made out to be. Clipping at extremes provides very good feedback range in the majority of circumstances when not at those extremes. You give up a bit at one end of the spectrum to gain a lot in the middle. This is what makes the OOB (out of the box) Kunos cars so good to drive.

You have set your mods feedback to almost never clip which in your mind is better but it results in a shorter curve that feels off compared to a Kunos offering, especially as forces begin to load. I never said forces aren't loading, you are misquoting me. I clearly said, forces don't load up properly. They begin to, that is easy for anyone to feel, but because the range is basically shortened to avoid clipping that only under an extreme case will we get max load. That doesn't feel right 95% of the time, that isn't how Kunos sets their cars and that isn't by chance. Again this is why I said I feel about 60% of the range in your mod compared to driving the 2015 car.

Anyway David, I said my bit so I'm done, I appreciate the mod, I really do, and I don't expect any changes if you don't believe in them. The team deserves twice what I paid for this mod. What I do know is the 2015 F1 car feels more compelling to drive and getting your mod to that level without requiring users to mess with the default FFB settings wouldn't be such an evil thing to consider. Peace out sim racers!

I am certainly no master in these things , And often not the fastest , But always had decent lap times ect ,
Last year I had a 10K Gaming rig with triple 32" screens and a F1 Seat from rSeat Formula RS , With a full Fanatec setup , with full buttkicker setup , could see and hear everything including all the bumps vibrations , bla bla ,
And to be honest ,
No matter what cars I drive in AC , with the setup I had , took seconds to tweek my FFB ,
To get the car just how I liked my driving , the feel and weight of the wheel ect ,

To me David has extremely high understanding of physics and values beyond anyone or anything I have seen ,
His physics are world class ,
All the top downloads for cars on RD , are mostly of his physics ect ,

Like I say im certainly no master in these things ,
But find 99% of the time , its personal setup of your own equipment , that makes all the difference .

 

[Twofeetin]

Clipping at extremes is what our car does. What the SF15 does is clipping at every situation almost.

Yup, you effectively shortened the feedback curve so it won't clip unless at an extreme. We all agree with that, but the range of normal forces get reduced along that shortened curve because of that choice. Which leads to a mod that feels vague. But hey, those Kunos guys don't seem to get it, I am right? LOL. Maybe you should explain to them how they are doing it all wrong...

 

[CC]

Yup, you effectively shortened the feedback curve so it won't clip unless at an extreme. We all agree with that, but the range of normal forces get reduced along that shortened curve because of that choice. Which leads to a mod that feels vague. But hey, those Kunos guys don't seem to get it, I am right? LOL. Maybe you should explain to them how they are doing it all wrong...

 

[yusupov]

dude, turn up the gain, turn down the steer assist, whatever. its so simple & you refuse to do it because you want the core of the mod to suit your particular taste when there are already parameters in place to do just that.

please go away.

 

[David Dominguez]

Yup, you effectively shortened the feedback curve so it won't clip unless at an extreme. We all agree with that, but the range of normal forces get reduced along that shortened curve because of that choice. Which leads to a mod that feels vague. But hey, those Kunos guys don't seem to get it, I am right? LOL. Maybe you should explain to them how they are doing it all wrong...

You should clear your mind up, if one clips at 40º steering in a mid speed turn and the other only clips at very fast corners, the one that has a shortened "feedback curve" is the first one, not the second one.

What Kunos does is not my business, all I know is that I have very clear in my mind what I want to achieve.

 

[Twofeetin]

You should clear your mind up, if one clips at 40º steering in a mid speed turn and the other only clips at very fast corners, the one that has a shortened "feedback curve" is the first one, not the second one.

What Kunos does is not my business, all I know is that I have very clear in my mind what I want to achieve.

That is only comparing at clipping. That isn't the range of anything just the measure of when one tops out and the other has room left. That doesn't measure the space between forces which is what I'm talking about. e.g. 0% to 90% the curve (if you bothered to map it out) is longer because Kunos pushes that 0 to 90 (again an example) beyond the usable range of FFB where it starts to clip. At 90 lets says, it begins to clip, all over the place, since it is an aggressive map. You are putting 0 to 100 in that same range. The range in this case, doesn't change, is it finite, so there is less of a difference between a 10% span in your car than the Kunos car. That is the curve. Thus I can feel the difference better between changes when driving which makes the Kunos car more detailed. Again this is why Kunos has as much clipping as it does.

If driving was always 0 to 100 then yes your mod would probably do better but that isn't how it works. You want to capture as much of the small differences as possible and that usually comes at a cost of some clipping to gain more difference or span in the core range (where most of the time driving is spent) as I said before and you ignored and will likely ignore again.

I think you have a chip on your shoulder and refuse to understand why Kunos has their cars setup like they do. Thinking it is some sort of oversight or error on their end and you are smarter and know better.. It isn't and you don't seem to get it. Instead of being stubborn you should consider why Kunos has their cars setup that way and you might actually learn something.

 

[Twofeetin]

dude, turn up the gain, turn down the steer assist, whatever. its so simple & you refuse to do it because you want the core of the mod to suit your particular taste when there are already parameters in place to do just that.

please go away.

Sorry if you have been "triggered" and this isn't the circle jerk you wanted it to be. Forum is about discussion not group think. You can always take your own advice though.

 

[NeverKrash]

I think you have a chip on your shoulder and refuse to understand why Kunos has their cars setup like they do. Thinking it is some sort of oversight or error on their end and you are smarter and know better.. It isn't and you don't seem to get it. Instead of being stubborn you should consider why Kunos has their cars setup that way and you might actually learn something.

This is not discussion.

But hey, those Kunos guys don't seem to get it, I am right? LOL. Maybe you should explain to them how they are doing it all wrong...

This is not discussion, either.

You're intentionally poking people to react negatively, then complaining about why they are reacting negatively.

In addition, David has been speaking with the physics developer of Kunos since before you were a RaceDepartment member. So please do not judge people's knowledge, and awareness of things behind the scenes. If he rationalises his own design decisions, it's not anybody's place to enforce their opinion. You've said your piece, so has he. This should be it.

 

[Uff]

You give up a bit at one end of the spectrum to gain a lot in the middle. This is what makes the OOB (out of the box) Kunos cars so good to drive.

As gary already pointed out, you can achieve this by lowering the steer assist value in the car setup. This will make the FFB reponse exponential, increasing low and mid range forces.
The way the mod is set right now is the right way to get a linear FFB response.

 

[bob76]

guys just noticed the steering ratio don't match my g27 wheel is turned 90 degreed but the 2017 hybrid is not on 90 degrees its les think 70 or 80 degrees.
checked my profiler settings and in game settings both are on 900 degrees and steering lock on 180.
any fix for this???
still best mod ever but that I mentioned a couple of times

nobody with the same problem???

 

[bob76]

nobody with the same problem???

solved sorry guys it has to do with the steering lock in the content manager turned it of and it syncs perfectly

 

[BhZ]

Based on thr changelog of the incoming patch, seems that the problem with led not showing properly without pp filters activated has been fixed.