F1: Button Pushing for Closed Cockpits

[Joel]

You can look at the relative chance of someone dying from a crash. It might be low, but that is a life lost. People die everyday, but mostly because of reasons we can't affect this easily. For the sake of entertainment you should never sacrifice lives. You are a horrible human being if that is what you think.

Closed cockpits, will it save lives? It better, otherwise don't bother. If it does, there should be no question.

EDIT: Wow autocorrect had a lot of mistakes

 

[LacSlyer]

You too.
Opinions are like arseholes, we all have one.

That's fine if that's your opinion, but I'm not the one putting entertainment ahead of someone's life. If that's truly how you feel that's pretty damn sad, I mean no offense.

 

[LacSlyer]

Open wheels will be the next thing to go if the namby pamby's get their way.

And this is always the knee jerk argument of going to extremes people claim when there's talk of something in the sport being changed. You're much better off offering actual arguments rather than taking it to extremes and calling people names.

 

[Thomas Alderton]

People die from sporting injuries. It happens. everyone here reading this could die tomorrow... That is reality. It's unlikely but it's reality.
Should a sport that has had 2 fatal head injuries very recently take action? - YES!
Why? - Because it's now in the sports best interest as it's not something that is publically accepted like it used to be in the past. (Even then it wasn't accepted... you just had to deal with it).

Why I think Closed cockpits could be better - It will provide another way of creating Aero which is F1's current problem of cars losing too much of it behind another car. It provides at least 20% greater safety in all aspects of accidents I assume. It also will provide the oppotunity for F1 to get it's radical new look along with it's radical new changes to improve the sport. It will also be unique, first ever open wheeled car with a cockpit right? I also think it will provide some awesome looking concepts and if not a real thing that could make the cars look stunning!

Here are a few visions I have when you say cockpit open wheel cars to me:

Do none of these take your interest and make you feel like they are at the very least cool?

Picture 1 is from Grand Turismo 5 and 6 a concept designed by Andrian Newey. Now if he has a vision like that then it could quite possibly become a reality. Hopefully they won't sound like it does in the game though as that is awful and gives me a headache.

Picture 2 is another Ferarri concept I saw online and thought "WOW!" doesn't that look better than the low nosed mess of a car they are currently running circles in?

Picture 3 is another concept I found online by Andres Van Overbeeke and well, it speaks for itself. Looks amzing and possibly has nailed the cockpit look in F1 cars I think.

I can't be the only one seeing these and agreeing that it should be changed, can I?

 

[Flammenjc]

In such situation the closed cockpit would be a positive thing. Look at kovalainen's accident in spain some years ago. He could not get out either but his head also made contact with the tire barrier which then landed on top of him. He would have been better of with closed cockpit. Same thing for François Cevert whose car went under guardrail. His car sure was stuck in the guardrail but his head was already smashed in with the initial collision.

You list these weird examples without stopping to think that the closed cockpit would have saved the drivers when in fact the only benefit of the open cockpit is that open cockpits only make it easier to get the dead bodies out...

I don't think you really thought your example through.

Sorry, but a closed cockpit would not have saved Cevert unless it was made out of diamond.

Either way you seem to think I'm against close cockpits, which isn't the case. I'm just saying that a closed cockpit will have problems of its own.

 

[Andy_J]

That's fine if that's your opinion, but I'm not the one putting entertainment ahead of someone's life. If that's truly how you feel that's pretty damn sad, I mean no offense.

I haven't called anybody names. I referred to a type. If you are in that group then so be it. I have voiced my opinion and given my argument. Dangerous sports are ...........hmm....dangerous.
What would you do with the Isle of Man TT races or the Ulster GP? They have riders dying in almost every event. What would you do to make that safer? Go on. Answer me.

 

[Philip Heck]

During dangerous weather conditions, such as there were on that particular day, why do we still have cars that veer off piste at such speed. American racing series have remote engine power cutoff when accidents/specific flags are in place.

Agreed.
When I first heard about the VSC I thought they would simply limit the cars' speed to a maximum of X kph or something.

 

[Ghoults]

Open wheels will be the next thing to go if the namby pamby's get their way.

So basically what you are saying is that the deaths of wilson and surtees and the incident of massa have been positive things because they add excitement to dull namy pamby motorsports?

 

[Cristian Haba]

This thread has been hijacked pretty badly.

Are closed cockpits the answer to these accidents? NO they are part of the answer.

How can you test what happened to Jules? If someone actually tries to do that I will laugh because it's going about the problem backwards. The variables that we should be looking at are:

• why did the marshalls take so long to extract the car?
• why didnt they have a proper crane where an excavator wouldnt be needed? (I mean FFS an f1 car is 650KG give or take you dont need something super special to lift that)
• are drivers properly obeying flag rules?
• are the proper flags given during severe accidents/weather situations? To follow that, should they be even more severe when in those conditions? Etc.

So many other questions need to be addressed before we think about f1 cars.

 

[Dave Fox]

All these safety concerns....
could just go all the way and convert all F1 cars and tracks to scalextric
it would mean no overtaking but would be incredibly safe

on a serious note, I'd go for at least trying the closed cockpit options.

 

[Steve William]

I didn't really read the whole thread or any of the comments BUT as I said before there is only positives to gain from closed cockpit design, i cant see any negatives... (please don't say oh in case of a crash the driver can't get out of the car fast enough... NO, this is a multi-billion dollar business so if they can't develop and find the solution for every scenario, then its really their fault.)
seriously

 

[InsaneOzzie]

I can't see a problem with it.

We as car owners want the best safety standards we can get in our metal chariots, so why the hell shouldn't F1 drivers and alike want the best safety features they can get in an F1/open wheel design.

Flying debris has only really become an increased issue with the addition of Carbon Fibre, Kevlar and other high tech plastic compounds that have a tendency to shatter in to pieces when impacted. I can remember back in the days of metal and alloy, when the Indy car officials decided to tether the front wheels to the car, to stop them flying off during wrecks on ovals and causing mayhem in the spectator stands, even the fencing around ovals has evolved in the name of safety, and it works.

The sport of F1 racing has come along way since the days of hero's like Brabham, Moss, Surtees or Fangio, to name but a few. But so has the pace in which these cars travel, and the materials we use, the cars are lighter, stronger and so much faster, and just like the evolution of the F1 cockpit safety cell, driver helmets and fitness over the years, the safety must continue to evolved. If one life can be saved with the introduction of new safety standards, then we are moving forward, if we fail to take action when a solution is required and obtainable to protect a life, then we are just murderers.

Put yourself in the place of Dan Wheldon, Justin Wilson or Jules Bianchi's families, I'm sure they would agree that an enclosed or semi-caged cockpit could of made all the difference, if it saves just one life in 5yrs of racing, it was worth what ever the cost, because you shouldn't put a price on a life.

 

[Andy_J]

So basically what you are saying is that the deaths of wilson and surtees and the incident of massa have been positive things because they add excitement to dull namy pamby motorsports?

Stop trying to cause trouble and inflame the discussion like a childish troll. I have not said anything of the sort. All I am saying is they knew the risks.
You answer me this: The Isle of Mann TT has deaths every year. What should the organisers do to prevent those deaths? How should they make real road racing safer for the rider?

 

[Andy_J]

This thread has been hijacked pretty badly.

Are closed cockpits the answer to these accidents? NO they are part of the answer.

How can you test what happened to Jules? If someone actually tries to do that I will laugh because it's going about the problem backwards. The variables that we should be looking at are:

• why did the marshalls take so long to extract the car?
• why didnt they have a proper crane where an excavator wouldnt be needed? (I mean FFS an f1 car is 650KG give or take you dont need something super special to lift that)
• are drivers properly obeying flag rules?
• are the proper flags given during severe accidents/weather situations? To follow that, should they be even more severe when in those conditions? Etc.

So many other questions need to be addressed before we think about f1 cars.

This^^^

 

[formidable]

The Bianchi crash was due to the crane in the track (Liuzzi was about to crash into a crane similarly to Bianchi in 2007 Nurgurgring), and the problem was the crane (why the FIA doesn't use a fix crane ubicated in the rear part of the walls?).

 

[Ghoults]

Stop trying to cause trouble and inflame the discussion like a childish troll. I have not said anything of the sort. All I am saying is they knew the risks.

You are saying that making the sport riskier or keeping it that way somehow makes it better. So the natural conclusion from that is that deaths SHOULD happen because that is what makes it exciting and risky, yes? After all it is not risky without deaths and injuries. So you do want deaths and injuries if you want risks.

Also cut down the personal attacks and try to discuss things in civil manner...

 

[Thomas Alderton]

you guys are now arguing over a completely different topic now so I suppose you too argue it out on a PM rather than clogging up this post with off topic non-sense. Especially before an admin gets around to telling you the same.

 

[Jonas Bögemann]

Ever since Grand Prix cars exists they were open, no roof, nor canopy.

May the FIA should rethink how they could allow obstacles like rescue vehicles, that are coincidently with their height on the same level like the drivers heads, being on the track. Simply a protecting apron may would do a better job than any closed cockpit.
Now also leaving the fact that Bianchi was driving significantly to fast under yellow flag.

I imagine a bar structure like pictured being way more dangerous, it really doesn't appears stable at all. Imagine it getting ripped of (it will) and smash into the drivers helmet.

All solutions are stupid, everybody seems to forget that racing is dangerous and not a cruise drive like Mr B may experiances it in his Mclaren. Beside, Bianchi's Marussia lost the overrollbar, that is after the monocoque the most stable structure of the car.

Formula cars are open, that is the defining rule. If the FIA would make F1 cars closed, they aren't longer F1 cars.

 

[MoerasGrizzly]

What about a windscreen/semi-open canopy thing, like the old Vanwall:

 

[Terry Rock]

Think about this...
"When was the last time anybody attended a race and was able to focus on what was going on inside the cockpit from the grandstand?"
It simply does not happen.
You pay attention to the car, relative to the other cars around.
The cars go by so fast, you can barely concentrate on that aspect alone.
As for television viewers, the on-board camera will still be there with an unobstructed view as it is now.... despite a canopy.
What could possibly be the reasoning behind denying additional protection of the driver...given that we the audience will lose nothing?
Just because motorsport has a higher element of danger associated with it, doesn't mean we should ignore the possibility to mitigate that danger.
If people only watch for macabre reasons, they need to go find something else.
It is absolutely asinine to fight against this change, simply for the sake of fighting change... because that's what this disagreement 'boils' down to.