F1: Button Pushing for Closed Cockpits

[Turk]

We've seen F1 cars survive all kinds of horrible crashes from pile ups to head on collisions with walls. For the most part they're incredibly strong and safe vehicles, but they have shown one serious safety issue in relation to cockpits.

I don't accept this attitude that racing is inherently unsafe so there's no point trying or that the possibility of watching a driver get killed is part of the entertainment value of the sport.

Health and safety isn't about making things safe, it would be foolish to assume you can make anything 100% safe. Health and safety is about reducing perceived risks. If a danger is identified you try to reduce the risk of that danger or flaw as much as you can.

My opinion is that if closed cockpits can reduce the risk of head injuries it should be implemented. I don't see that it would hamper the drivers ability to see or get out of the car anymore than the windshield on a gt car prevents the driver to see or escape the car.

F1 engineers are some of the smartest people in the world. If closed cockpits come in they'll make it work and probably use it to make the car faster at the same time.

 

[Andy_J]

Would it be technically possible to create a fire-proof cocoon where the driver can sit in? With such a system in combination with a closed cockpit the driver should at least be safe for a few minutes in case he gets stuck.

I suppose it is possible. Why not put caterpillar tracks on it too and a turret with 5" armour whilst we are at it?

 

[Andy_J]

Lotus had them first just ask 007!

James Bond had one in his Aston Martin.

 

[Stereo]

Maybe they could bring back visibility for the drivers too, right now they're nestled so deep all you see is the tops of their foreheads anyway, if the cars had to have a closed cockpit they could relax that a little.

They've done so much to make the cars safer by slowing them down (limit aero, limit engine power, manual shifting ...), maybe they could relax on that side of things a bit once the drivers are protected a little better. Lose some aero with the larger front area of the cockpit, gain it back by allowing wider wings or something.

 

[Darth]

I don't argue that closed cockpits will protect drivers from flying projectiles or
debris, but if another car lands on your whindshield, the thin protection it offers
will not save you.

 

[Blotto]

James Bond had one in his Aston Martin.

oops - thought it was lotus!

 

[Darth]

Maybe they could bring back visibility for the drivers too, right now they're nestled so deep all you see is the tops of their foreheads anyway, if the cars had to have a closed cockpit they could relax that a little.

They've done so much to make the cars safer by slowing them down (limit aero, limit engine power, manual shifting ...), maybe they could relax on that side of things a bit once the drivers are protected a little better. Lose some aero with the larger front area of the cockpit, gain it back by allowing wider wings or something.

Nope, the deeper you are, closer to the ground, the more the centre of gravity falls and thus allows
the car to turn easier and faster.

 

[Turk]

They probably could allow a little bit more aero, the cockpit should reduce drag making the cars slightly faster. The could maybe counteract that reduced drag by increasing the drag from the wings.

Although I think the intention is to slow them down in corners where failures have greater consequences.

 

[Rob]

Would it be technically possible to create a fire-proof cocoon where the driver can sit in? With such a system in combination with a closed cockpit the driver should at least be safe for a few minutes in case he gets stuck.

I think you would need a fire-proof human to put in there. And the way F1 is headed, you might just be on to something....

 

[Kresh]

I don't understand why people are against closed cockpits, anything that improves the drivers safety its more than welcome, last time I checked the most exciting part of F1 is the open wheels part, guys racing with their tires inches close to each other at 300 kmh +. As long as the wheels stay open the rest is all good.

 

[LacSlyer]

Well I have mixed feelings in the matter. I truly do not want the sport to be sanitised any further. Believe it or not but the risk of accident and even serious injury is a draw to many people that watch. The same goes for MOTO GP, TT racing and every other style of motorcycle racing. They are in a far more dangerous position every single time they get on their race bike, but thank god we still resist the namby pambyism that tries to ban the likes of real road racing just because another 2 or 3 die in the latest race at the TT or similar.
If the do gooders and health and safety nannies get to change every sport because its dangerous to the point of sillyness, we as humans will try and find something else to risk ourt lives doing. And that is what it always should be, a risk.
So I don't agree with some of you at all.
Shall we ban free climbing? Shall we ban free fall parachuting? Shall we make tight rope walkers use ropes 10 feet thick for safety's sake? How about adding another two wheels to motorbikes, that'l make em safer. Nah leave it as it is, F1 is still safer now than crossing a busy london street in my opinion.

In regard to why people watch and claiming that some watch for the danger factor, I'd say those type of people can f*ck off to be perfectly blunt. Racing is about racing and while there's always going to be an inherent risk with it, that shouldn't be why people watch it. That's borderline gladiator arena style type of entertainment that shouldn't be a part of motorsport.

And I'm sorry, but your stance that just because a few people die we shouldn't change things is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. People's lives should be the first focus, not how entertaining the sport is.

There's more than enough entertainment to be gained from watching racing, so peoples' lives being in danger should be the least entertaining factor for fans. If that's what they enjoy maybe they should watch something else.

 

[Andy_J]

In regard to why people watch and claiming that some watch for the danger factor, I'd say those type of people can f*ck off to be perfectly blunt.

You too.
Opinions are like arseholes, we all have one.

 

[Andy_J]

I don't understand why people are against closed cockpits, anything that improves the drivers safety its more than welcome, last time I checked the most exciting part of F1 is the open wheels part, guys racing with their tires inches close to each other at 300 kmh +. As long as the wheels stay open the rest is all good.

Open wheels will be the next thing to go if the namby pamby's get their way.

 

[AndrewBo]

Just a short reminder:
Mutual respect between the people using the RaceDepartment.com website(s) and forums. This means you may not personally attack other forum users.

 

[johnnymat]

NO NO NO NO NO and again NOO

Justin Wilson Accident was a one out of million chance

And this "Structure" wouldn't have saved MR Bianchi anyway

I may sound a bit harsh here but i'm just not a fan of these weird "cockpits"

You're absolutely right. No one knows how they are going to deal with someone trapped in a car when the canopy won't come off. And , you're not being harsh. These folks know the risks and accept them. Much like the Isle of Man ; decisions made of their own free will.

 

[Iain McKenzie]

I have an idea, why don't we remove the drivers, sack them, and have the engineers control the cars from the pit wall. That's already happening anyway.

 

[Yapci]

I have an idea, why don't we remove the drivers, sack them, and have the engineers control the cars from the pit wall. That's already happening anyway.

Thats not the true. They press the buttons of the wheel.

 

[Celtic Pharaoh]

I don't know why there is such opposition to closed cockpits. Yes Grand Prix racing / F1 always had open cockpits but safety is paramount.

Maintaining current open cockpit aesthetics at the cost of another potential fatality? This is insanity!

People will always complain about change. Remember when teams implemented ground effect to generate more downforce in the 70s and then later banned? When cars' skirting boards scraped the asphalt in the '90s and then later banned? When up until 2004, teams were given nearly free reign to make their cars as fast as they could then regulations forced a raised front wing 2005 onwards? When teams could freely choose their engine configuration then the FIA enforced a 2.4L V8 engine spec in 2006? When the FIA enforced a 1.6L V6 turbo-charged engine in 2014, making the cars sound like pure crap? (Don't give me "I think it's nice, has its charm" whatever bullshit, they're in no shape or form even comparable to the roaring V10s or V12s)

F1 has changed A LOT and people are complaining about closed cockpits? Give me a break...

 

[Turk]

You're absolutely right. No one knows how they are going to deal with someone trapped in a car when the canopy won't come off. And , you're not being harsh. These folks know the risks and accept them. Much like the Isle of Man ; decisions made of their own free will.

It's not like the engineers are going to just stick any old canopy on the car and head off down the pub. It they do introduce a canopy it will be designed and tested to meet all the requirements. A canopy could allow for a much larger cockpit opening if they can redesign the car to accommodate it. It could allow them to rethink the whole cockpit configuration.

 

[Cristian Haba]

The sport is changing every year and this may come as well, either to pass or to stay. While we are all debating the issue of closed cockpits why is no one looking at track management, which in my opinion is the reason Jules is not racing anymore.

During dangerous weather conditions, such as there were on that particular day, why do we still have cars that veer off piste at such speed. American racing series have remote engine power cutoff when accidents/specific flags are in place.

Further, on to the subject of race track management and martials. Are they still unpaid and voluntary work? I hope not, imo these guys are the first line of defense when anything goes down. If I'm a Hamilton worth 50mil or so a year to Mercedes, as and individual and as a team owner, I'd want the first line of response to be as acutely adequate to deal with any number of general scenarios that arise when racing. Why is it that we still have amateur looking people on that track at times? If theyre not paid, they need to be and trained appropriately. Imagine if removing a carr from the gravel trap would be practiced like a pit stop, i think there would be a different outcome today if that had been in place. Not talking about modifying a car so that it can withstand and impact from a stationary 4000kg lory/excavator at tripple digit speeds but simple common sense, which in the case of Jules was not present imo.