Do you feel that AC will be the last sim of your life?

[Elaphe]

I do. Maybe if you are younger than me (and more optimistic) you have expectations in a brighter future. I have the feeling that there is no logic in expecting new sims in the future (such Assetto Corsa 2, for instance). The reason is the hardware. Newer games with photorealistic graphics with ray tracing, 4k, running in triple screens or high resolution VR headsets with lots of FOV, with real physics ala BeamNG Drive? That's impossible now and it will not be possible in many decades. The evolution of CPUs and GPUs is slow and almost stuck, with absurd prices and unable to supply enough computing power even for the games with have now under certain circumstances. Ten years ago I dreamt with better games; nowadays I dream with better hardware to improve the experience I have with AC.

 

[Kyuubeey]

One thing I can say is that probably even in 10 years, we can still be proud about the best car and track implementations in AC right now. The quality is just objectively good and will more or less be timeless to some extent. It's not like older sims where it was "good for the time" and that's it, we've moved past that level and the physics especially have matured into something actually serious instead of just 100% purely guessing.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

@mclarenf1papa, outside new gyro, that cphys is that something that works on existing, including vanilla, AC content or just tool for modders?

A tool for people who fairly seriously know what they're doing (very much not the majority of modders). Almost all of the features need new data/parameters which take the simulation to a more professional level instead of a sim market level (like AC, ACC, RF2, etc). I talk about file count a lot with regards to this, but something like the P13 uses 200 data files vs the typical KS number of 45 for the same type of car. It's more pro sim territory than video game territory.

Something like a multipoint tire model might end up enabled by default, or at least enabled by default for cphys cars.

 

[Ghoults]

There are so many places in ac where kunos managed to pick just the right way to implement a feature that really ticks all the boxes. Convenient to use, easy to understand, quick to do, flexible, future proof while still being very efficient to run fast. Like the way track surfaces is done, how car lods work or how the car engine sounds work. It is many generations ahead of anything else out there and I 100% believe it is not hyperbole to say it.

With track surfaces splitting the visual and physics surfaces was a great move. Not only does it give you the best of both performance and looks but it allows to drive on really detailed surfaces. Of course the downside there is that the dynamic track system is extremely basic but for a game that doesn't have rain I think it is a valid choice. The system is also flexible as it allows use of one single mesh that is both drivable and visual too to save time. There is no need to use it in one very specific way.

Only annoyance is the relatively low tris limit for the objects but iirc the unofficially updated sdk has a higher limit. Which means.... even the modding tools can be modded. Not to mention the modding tools are great as well! Or that they exist! There are moddable titles out there that have no documentation and no tools at all.

Car lod system also has some nice small details in it that really make it a pleasure to use. As all the objects are packaged into kn5 packages the lod distances are set just for each kn5 package. Not for each object. That is a massive time saver and improvement over the object focused workflow. And it is flexible system as well so if someone wants to manually have each object be its own kn5 and manually set lod distances for each object in a text file then he can do that. Tracks have their own object based lodding. It is so quick. And the packages are created by the sdk. One export directly into the game.

The car sounds are also amazing. By allowing sound banks to be transferred with just quick edit of guid file one of the big hurdles of modding has been overcome. Placeholder sounds don't need to suck and lack of sounds can not stop release of mod. With kunos allowing their sound packs to be used in mods is also very thoughtful of them. The system is robust, quick and almost effortless to set up for new car. It also supports sound modding and sound packs which don't break anything even online. Moddable sounds in moddable game! There are moddable games out there that don't even provide a sample file for how to set up sounds for your car...

I can't comment on sound modding because I have not done it but it looks the documentation is good. Overall the sound system is insanely well thought out system. One has to really dig down deep to find something bad about it. With cm automating the sound change between cars into effectively couple of clicks it becomes really super super difficult complain anything about it.

None of this is possible in any other game or in ue4 or unity or whatever without rewriting their engines at low level. This is all unique and from modding point of view just pure excellence. And there are many features like that. Not just in ac but in shaders patch and content manager. This is why ac is so hard to beat. It has flaws too but it does a lot of things so much better than its competitors.

 

[Kyuubeey]

Well, anyone who makes sounds will immediately notice that multiple emitters are not doable. It's a quite weak implementation overall. Easily the weakest part of AC's presentation is the sound capabilities. It just works and that's about it; although the easily swappable soundbanks is nice.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

A tool for people who fairly seriously know what they're doing (very much not the majority of modders). Almost all of the features need new data/parameters which take the simulation to a more professional level instead of a sim market level (like AC, ACC, RF2, etc). I talk about file count a lot with regards to this, but something like the P13 uses 200 data files vs the typical KS number of 45 for the same type of car. It's more pro sim territory than video game territory.

Something like a multipoint tire model might end up enabled by default, or at least enabled by default for cphys cars.

Thanks for reply, so if I understand right it's just a territory of a few modded cars that utilize this extension features, not something that can be applied to all existing content.
Not sure about multipoint tire model though, are you saying once completed it can be enabled globally?
BTW, is there a list of finished mods using that cphys that you can recommend to try out?
Thanks again for taking your time to respond.

 

[Pixelerate]

Nice thread! I personally feel that technology (graphics & physics) will continually improve when it comes to Sim Racing and there will be limitations to how much we can "update" AC. Very highly doubt this will be my last sim.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

Thanks for reply, so if I understand right it's just a territory of a few modded cars that utilize this extension features, not something that can be applied to all existing content.
Not sure about multipoint tire model though, are you saying once completed it can be enabled globally?
BTW, is there a list of finished mods using that cphys that you can recommend to try out?
Thanks again for taking your time to respond.

It's on a per-feature basis. Some (like gyro) can be global, others need to be parametrized and thus are car/model specific.

I don't really have a list. The P13 uses many of the cphys features and I think some of Arch's cars use a few features as well. The rest are mostly rips as far as I know.

 

[Kyuubeey]

The amount of people who know how to implement the Cphys stuff and would have a reason to are countable on one hand, and many of those have either been driven away from the community or there just isn't sense to make anything for the public any more with how high effort it is and they would rather do only professional work.

If you can find my cars, they're using most (all?) of the Cphys tire stuff and some of the suspension features, although I haven't felt a need to put in all of them yet but probably will in the future. However my cars are also garbage and I don't know what I'm doing if you ask anyone, so maybe nobody is missing out.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

And I can see why.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

And I can see why.

The real reason is that 99.9% of modders (and sim devs, to be totally honest), don't have the data and/or the expertise to use many of the features...a lot of the stuff being added isn't even present in most professional simulators. As for the issue you linked, there were about 4 versions of the patch that caused cphys cars to crash the game (but other versions still worked fine); just regular growing pains.

 

[onearmedbandit46]

However my cars are also garbage and I don't know what I'm doing if you ask anyone, so maybe nobody is missing out.

Vocal ignorant minority. What happened in the community is shite and it honestly does dismay me that people like yourself have been subjected to this bs. Regardless I still love driving the cars you've worked your magic on and hope to see more in the future.

 

[pumpkineater23]

Thanks for reply, so if I understand right it's just a territory of a few modded cars that utilize this extension features, not something that can be applied to all existing content.
Not sure about multipoint tire model though, are you saying once completed it can be enabled globally?
BTW, is there a list of finished mods using that cphys that you can recommend to try out?
Thanks again for taking your time to respond.

Andrew_WOT - I expect you were onto this long ago (AC has been reignited for myself recently) but I downloaded the BK LMS GT3 car yesterday on Kyuubeey's recommendation. I understand nothing of the technical detail but this mod feels (and sounds) amazing to me. For sure a step up from the KS AC GT3 cars. It's the suspension that seems most obviously different to other cars I think? I tried to download the Ferrari too but that isn't working.. since 1.76 patch I believe. Guess I'll have to wait for the next patch for that one. As I understand it, the LMS is a ACC car.. perhaps this is what you meant when you mentioned the ACC GT3 cars were of a higher quality?

 

[Kyuubeey]

Andrew_WOT - I expect you were onto this long ago (AC has been reignited for myself recently) but I downloaded the BK LMS GT3 car yesterday on mclarenf1papa's recommendation. I understand nothing of the technical detail but this mod feels (and sounds) amazing to me. For sure a step up from the KS GT3 cars. It's the suspension that seems most obviously different to other cars I think? I tried to download the Ferrari too but that isn't working.. since 1.76 patch I believe. Guess I'll have to wait for the next patch for that one. As I understand it, the LMS is a ACC car.. perhaps this is what you meant when you mentioned the ACC GT3 cars were of a higher quality?

The 3D model for the BK R8 may indeed be from ACC, but the physics are completely scratch. There is no doubt whatsoever that it's more accurate than the ACC physics implementation. Although there is also no doubt whatsoever that ACC's GT cars are more accurate than AC's GT cars, and I think that's what he meant.

 

[Interslice]

Purely from a driving feel the ginetta GT4 in ACC and AC both feel of a similar quality. The tyre wear is the main difference i could feel. The hard tyres don't wear in AC. The graphics of the interior and exterior are on a par.

Driving both back to back has me thinking AC will be around for a while yet and will hopefully continue to evolve and match whatever the future titles are.

 

[pumpkineater23]

It's on a per-feature basis. Some (like gyro) can be global, others need to be parametrized and thus are car/model specific.

I don't really have a list. The P13 uses many of the cphys features and I think some of Arch's cars use a few features as well. The rest are mostly rips as far as I know.

The 3D model for the BK R8 may indeed be from ACC, but the physics are completely scratch. There is no doubt whatsoever that it's more accurate than the ACC physics implementation. Although there is also no doubt whatsoever that ACC's GT cars are more accurate than AC's GT cars, and I think that's what he meant.

Ah, I see, thankyou. That was a great recommendation. He also mentioned Arch's cars.. I don't suppose you know where I can find those do you? Or any other high quality car mods. As previously mentioned, I'm more than happy to pay for these mods!

 

[Kyuubeey]

Ah, I see, thankyou. That was a great recommendation. He also mentioned Arch's cars.. I don't suppose you know where I can find those do you? Or any other high quality car mods. As previously mentioned, I'm more than happy to pay for these mods!

Hmm, I'm not sure. Maybe if you can find this Arch guy you can ask him yourself. You'll probably find them if you ask around.

 

[pumpkineater23]

Hmm, I'm not sure. Maybe if you can find this Arch guy you can ask him yourself. You'll probably find them if you ask around.

Apologies if I'm being stupid here but you're not Arch are you by any chance? I only ask because, having done a little digging, I see you are obviously a very highly respected modder.

 

[Kyuubeey]

Apologies if I'm being stupid here but you're not Arch are you by any chance? I only ask because, having done a little digging, I see you are obviously a very highly respected modder.

I don't know about highly respected, but there was a time when I released a bunch of cars credited to Arch. Maybe that's the Arch you're looking for?

Dig a bit more and maybe you'll even find the cars.

 

[pumpkineater23]

I don't know about highly respected, but there was a time when I released a bunch of cars credited to Arch. Maybe that's the Arch you're looking for?

Dig a bit more and maybe you'll even find the cars.

After more digging I can see you're clearly the don!
I can't find those cars and you've removed your physics upgrades. I won't chime in other than to say that I genuinely totally understand your frustration. I'm sure I'll find them at some stage.. I'm in no hurry

 

[Terry Rock]

Answer to the original question: No.
It is great though.
Hard to believe rain and the reshade mods could have added so much life to an old sim.
I wonder if Stefano ever imagined his creation would have held it's popularity for this long.