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Cars Caterham Seven 620R 0.5

2.0L Supercharged beast.

  1. Rift Racer

    Rift Racer

    Messages:
    12
    Ratings:
    +7
    Rift Racer submitted a new resource:

    Caterham Seven 620R - 2.0L Supercharged beast.

    Read more about this resource...
     
    • Love Love x 1
  2. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur

    Messages:
    643
    Ratings:
    +339
    Why don't you just include the update in the original download version, like the other modder do, instead of asking us to somehow modify your original download with the updated data?
     
  3. Ben O'Bro

    Ben O'Bro
    Premium

    Messages:
    348
    Ratings:
    +927
    You can't simply modify the original, you would need the original modder to update it. And he's been away from the RD scene for a while now! But don't you worry, another caterham mod is on the way ;)

    edit; ps; also, taking an original mod to repost it with edited data is forbidden
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Rift Racer

    Rift Racer

    Messages:
    12
    Ratings:
    +7
    I don't quite understand what your asking. I could not contact the original author for permission to include his work.

    So the only way I could release it "properly" was to just release the things I made, then reference his 3D in my files, so it uses the files from the original mod already installed on your PC.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Joseph Maxx

    Joseph Maxx

    Messages:
    670
    Ratings:
    +215
    If you were unable to get permission from the original author then you shouldn't be posting a derivative of his work either as that violates RD TOS.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
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    • Angry Angry x 1
  6. Fat-Alfie

    Fat-Alfie
    David Pemberton Premium

    Messages:
    584
    Ratings:
    +1,205
    Oh, I downloaded this mod thinking it was original work :O_o:
     
  7. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur

    Messages:
    643
    Ratings:
    +339
    I did not even realized the situation, I was under the impression that the original modder was doing it that way, I understand why now, which answer my question, thank you.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Ross Garland

    Ross Garland
    A legend in my own mind... Staff Premium

    Messages:
    5,757
    Ratings:
    +2,240
    He hasn't included the original files for that reason. This is a mod of a mod. The RD ToS actually says that any mod should get the permission of the copyright or trademark holder... suggesting that every modder on RD should have contacted the original game developers before uploading anything. Bet they didn't though. ;)
     
  9. alexcand

    alexcand

    Messages:
    12
    Ratings:
    +1
    Thanks for this mod mod lol
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  10. Joseph Maxx

    Joseph Maxx

    Messages:
    670
    Ratings:
    +215
    Sorry but you're wrong about that. This is taken directly from the original mods page on RD,

    "It is forbidden to modify, copy or upload any part of this mod without my permission"

    Since this is a modification based on the original author's work and he has not received permission from the author this is a violation of the author's explicit instructions.

    In regards to getting the developers permission, AC is an openly moddable title by design so no permission is necessay unless you are using original content to base your mod on and in that case you'd be in clear violation of Kunos' TOS so no permission would be granted anyways.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    • Sad Sad x 1
  11. Bram Hengeveld

    Bram Hengeveld
    Administrator Staff Premium

    Messages:
    42,511
    Ratings:
    +16,458
    Before deleting a file too soon. Is this mod just an add-on to the original uploaded Caterham Academy? Or is it (re)using files without permission. If the later we can't allow it. If the former I dont see the issue really.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. Ross Garland

    Ross Garland
    A legend in my own mind... Staff Premium

    Messages:
    5,757
    Ratings:
    +2,240
    Actually, I'm not. You said it broke RD's ToS, not the original modder's request. I checked RD's ToS, and it states exactly what I said above.

    @Bram , this mod essentially adds another form of Caterham with different engine and physics. The original mod must itself be installed for it to function because the 3D model and various other files are not included in this download. So in my humble opinion it's an addon, not a rehash.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. Rift Racer

    Rift Racer

    Messages:
    12
    Ratings:
    +7
    Would it make it better if I said I started from blank notepad files and just looked at the original values to create my data files? Thus not violating the original authors TOS too.

    @Bram It is a completely seperate mod without a 3D model because I can't create one myself, so I referenced the 3d model from Caterham Academy in your AC folder (it has to be installed). It does not include it in the download (so as not to violate RD TOS).

    (Although just for clarity, I did TRY to contact the original author for permission, but by all accounts he's disappeared off of the face of the internet. Last seen sometime around mid 2015 according to RD profile. I also tried via email, and then decided to release it in this way instead, because I could not get a hold of him to secure permission to include his 3D model).
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Ralf Brinkmann

    Ralf Brinkmann

    Messages:
    70
    Ratings:
    +32
    Is this a serious question? 80% of the files inside the data folder are straight copied from the originial mod. Creative thinking with "referencing the model" but you can not not see how this is a violation.

    Edit: Ok, more like 50%. But point still stands.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Fat-Alfie

    Fat-Alfie
    David Pemberton Premium

    Messages:
    584
    Ratings:
    +1,205
    If this project cannot function without someone else's hard work then in my opinion it is not a project in its own right.

    Ok, he is not claiming to have made the model, but you can't release a car that is just a text file :O_o:

    Can I release a track that is just an AI spline, with no model?

    Modding is all or nothing, for me :unsure:
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Rift Racer

    Rift Racer

    Messages:
    12
    Ratings:
    +7
    Yes it's a serious question... Nowhere in the authors TOS does it say you can't look at his data files and take reference from them for your own work.

    And maybe 50% of the data files are the same, but I think you'll find it's the files that are required but don't do much / anything to car handling (wing animation, DRS, camera files, electronics [none], wing controllers?)..... I just ran a comparison of the 2 data folders:
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/aero.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/aero.ini are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/ambient_shadows.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/ambient_shadows.ini are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/blurred_objects.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/blurred_objects.ini are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/cameras.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/cameras.ini are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/colliders.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/colliders.ini are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/cyfrowe.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/cyfrowe.ini are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/drs.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/drs.ini are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/electronics.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/electronics.ini are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/escmode.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/escmode.ini are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/final.rto and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/final.rto are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/height_diffuser_CD.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/height_diffuser_CD.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/height_diffuser_CL.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/height_diffuser_CL.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/height_frontwing_CD.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/height_frontwing_CD.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/height_frontwing_CL.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/height_frontwing_CL.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/lights.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/lights.ini are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/mirrors.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/mirrors.ini are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/ratios.rto and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/ratios.rto are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/suspension_graphics.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/suspension_graphics.ini are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/throttle.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/throttle.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/wing_animations.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/wing_animations.ini are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/wing_body_AOA_CD.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/wing_body_AOA_CD.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/wing_body_AOA_CL.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/wing_body_AOA_CL.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/wing_controller_brake.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/wing_controller_brake.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/wing_controller_speed.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/wing_controller_speed.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/wing_diffuser_AOA_CD.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/wing_diffuser_AOA_CD.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/wing_diffuser_AOA_CL.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/wing_diffuser_AOA_CL.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/wing_front_AOA_CD.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/wing_front_AOA_CD.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/wing_front_AOA_CL.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/wing_front_AOA_CL.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/wing_rearmovable_AOA_CD.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/wing_rearmovable_AOA_CD.lut are identical
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/wing_rearmovable_AOA_CL.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/wing_rearmovable_AOA_CL.lut are identical

    All of the files which actually make the car what it is have been changed, or created. You can see below:

    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/ai.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/ai.ini differ
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/analog_instruments.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/analog_instruments.ini differ
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/brakes.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/brakes.ini differ
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/car.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/car.ini differ
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/damage.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/damage.ini differ
    • Only in cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/: digital_instruments.ini
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/driver3d.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/driver3d.ini differ
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/drivetrain.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/drivetrain.ini differ
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/engine.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/engine.ini differ
    • Only in cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/: flame_presets.ini
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/flames.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/flames.ini differ
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/lods.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/lods.ini differ
    • Only in cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/: modern_street_175-55.lut
    • Only in cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/: modern_street_225-45.lut
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/power.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/power.lut differ
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/proview_nodes.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/proview_nodes.ini differ
    • Only in cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/: semislicks_front.lut
    • Only in cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/: semislicks_rear.lut
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/setup.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/setup.ini differ
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/sounds.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/sounds.ini differ
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/street_front.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/street_front.lut differ
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/street_rear.lut and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/street_rear.lut differ
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/suspensions.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/suspensions.ini differ
    • Only in cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/: tcurve_semis.lut
    • Only in cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/: tcurve_street.lut
    • Files cars/caterham_academy/data/tyres.ini and cars/rr_caterham_academy_620r/data/tyres.ini differ

    We're really getting pedantic here with the car mods in general. Did the original Caterham Academy author get permission from Caterham?

    Did every single other TRADEMARKED BRAND NAME car mod get permission from the trademark holder?

    Did the author contact Ferrari for permission to do 488 GTB mod? or the Ferrari F1 team authorise the 2002 and countless other Ferrari F1 mods? What about all the Mazda 787B and the Miata NA mod? Are those are authorised by the trademark holders? (Just choosing random top mods from my head, not picking on anyone - and yes, I know those last 2 are licensed now BY KUNOS, but I doubt they were authorised by the rights holders originally when they were mods).

    I think you see my point here. 90% of the car mod content on here breaks the RD TOS if you really want to be pedantic about it, but the only reason it's there is to stop them getting sued etc. when a rights holder inevitably complains (e.g FOM), they can just remove the file, say the user violated their TOS and they don't condone this and that's that.

    Honest to ****, get a grip people.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Wow Wow x 1
  17. Rift Racer

    Rift Racer

    Messages:
    12
    Ratings:
    +7
    Who cares whether it is a project in it's own right. WTF is it with people? You won't use a car because someone ONLY created the data files and didn't create a 3D model? What manner of thinking of this? What if I had bought a 3D model from somewhere and used that? Would that make it more appealing to you?

    It's a bit of a different deal, when the text files are what makes the car what it is. The 3D model is just a pretty box for over the top of it (no disrespect to 3D modders, they have much more talent than me messing about with values in text files).

    But whatever.... No one is forcing you to download.
     
    • Love Love x 1
  18. Fat-Alfie

    Fat-Alfie
    David Pemberton Premium

    Messages:
    584
    Ratings:
    +1,205
    You honestly expect to be taken seriously with an attitude like that? :confused: <Snip>:mad:

    You are nothing but a parasite, desperately seeking adoration based on someone else's hard work :whistling:

    mod edit - keep it civil please
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2017
  19. marcocale

    marcocale

    Messages:
    38
    Ratings:
    +19
    I personally thank Rift Racer for this new enjoiable ADDON (he doesn't claim to have produced a MOD) for the original Caterham. A new engine, trasmission etc., even if a simpe .txt file, it's not exactly an easy task to complete, surely something that not everyone is able to do, so at the end of the day one must ‘give to Caesar what is Caesar’s’.
    I can imagine why he included some original files (probably just to make installation process easier for end users) and unfortunately this give also some points to complaints, even if personally would use more understanding regarding his specific situation. A solution could be to include here only the file he produced and then give instruction on how create the new version starting from the original, but this surely will end in complaints for the difficult installation process..... :roflmao:

    So, if I can, I would suggest to Rift Racer to keep in touch with Ben O'Bro (here) and investigate if he is interested to inlclude also a 620r version in his Caterham. As far as I understand he's mainly a 3D modeler with no particular knoweledge in physics, has plan to make an Academy (or probably a HPC version instead) starting from someone else physic he is authorized to use. It seems a 620r isn't in his plans. Working directly with him (if you you both interested) could give the advantage to have a 620r also with a proper 3D model that reflect also the aestethical differencies of that version.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Rift Racer

    Rift Racer

    Messages:
    12
    Ratings:
    +7
    LOL, so you don't answer any of my questions but resort to name calling WHILE talking about MY attitude? That's a great example of good attitude :whistling:

    Anyone? Where is the ignore button on this site?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 2