PC1 Banned for no reason!

[Ian Bell]

I could tell you but the car companies would have to kill me.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

On teh private chat stuff, we tried that many months ago about this particular thread title but it didn't go anywhere. I'm not sure we got a response.

Now you are just making stuff up Ian. You haven't contacted us before neither did anyone else from Slightly Mad Studios at least they havent exposed themselves officially via email.

All emails sent to info@racedepartment.com always receive an answer eventually. The only person that contacted us via email and used the words libel sent it with an email address @telia.com

If that is one of your employees you need to tell them to correspond with their work email address to avoid confusion.

For the record this is the email i am speaking of. (30 march 2012)

<email removed>

As Xose already posted a few pages back this was our response sent on the same day

Hello,

Thanks for your email. I agree that the thread went off topic and personal insults should not be allowed. Those parts if have removed from the discussion but we will not censor the opinion of our members as long as they are discussing the software/game/business and certainly not delete posts or threads.

Personal abuse we never accept and that is dealt with in an appropriate way now however we do not control the opinion of people posting on our forums. According to our ToS every author is responsible for their own content:

The providers of this service ("we") are not responsible for the content of any messages posted. Messages posted express the views of their author only.​

If you don't agree with peoples opinion you are free to discuss your side of the story on our forums or when you think its criminal libel you have all the right to inform the legal authorities in The Netherlands, under which rules we operate. If those authorities agree with you and ask us to remove the content we will do that of course without any exception.

Hopefully I have answered your questions/demands sufficiently. If you see any abusive content posted don't hesitate to send an email or click the report button located under each post. We carefully review each report to see if they match our ToS.

Best regards,
Bram Hengeveld

For the rest their have been no private conversations with anyone from SMS about the subject pCARS

 

[Micas_WMD]

Interesting turn of events. Looks like this is going to get really expensive.

 

[Ian Bell]

Now you are just making stuff up Ian. You haven't contacted us before neither did anyone else from Slightly Mad Studios at least they havent exposed themselves officially via email.

All emails sent to info@racedepartment.com always receive an answer eventually. The only person that contacted us via email and used the words libel sent it with an email address @telia.com

If that is one of your employees you need to tell them to correspond with their work email address to avoid confusion.

For the record this is the email i am speaking of. (30 march 2012)



As Xose already posted a few pages back this was our response sent on the same day



For the rest their have been no private conversations with anyone from SMS about the subject pCARS

Telia sounds like our forum administrator. If the mails haven't reached you then you are obviously not aware and can't be held accountable.

For the record, we have never banned anyone for no reason. The title of this thread is false.

 

[Mapu]

Yeah it's interesting to see how Mr. Bell is doing u-turns within 12 hours. It's only getting worse if you ask me. Better go back and enjoy your WMD place. Maybe have a laugh or two too.

I have enough of this silly chitchat and will go to a place where I can enjoy my sim-racing hobby with truly dedicated developers.

Don't fall for another trap.

"That's All Folks!" - Porky Pig

 

[private watson]

Take a chill pill Andy, and maybe try pCARS. You're bordering on the paranoid to think we have any other agenda than to engage with the community. As I said in another post, that also means engaging those like yourself who hate what we are doing with pCARs, without ever having tried it.

(removed for personal abuse)

 

[Ian Bell]

(removed for personal abuse)

We don't have any other agenda is what I'm saying. How that relates to your opinions stated here has gone over my head I'm afraid.

 

[private watson]

ha this goes to prove you are paranoid by hovering over this forum lol..........
well thats bank holidays for ya..........

 

[Xosé Estrada]

Interesting turn of events. Looks like this is going to get really expensive.

For much you threaten us I will stand on my view of RD doing nothing wrong here.

Do what you feel.

 

[BigSilverHotdog]

For the record, we have never banned anyone for no reason. The title of this thread is false.

The title of the thread is the author's opinion. It is your opinion that he was banned for a reason, his opinion was that he was banned for no reason. This is a message board. People post their views. It is not libel to post your views unless you are knowingly posting false information with damaging intent. Not where I live, nor where this forum is located. Even if someone here did post something libelous, why not talk to the community directly instead of having your people come in here and troll everyone to death? It makes you look bad to people on the outside (which is what I was when I strolled in here @ page 60).

In one respect I'm actually on your side. My view is that he was banned for a reason (I did read the entire thread after all), but that doesn't mean the author can't hold his own view on the matter and disagree. Even if you can prove he was banned for a reason, that doesn't make his statement libelous. Libel requires damage, and it isn't his banning or claim of unjust banning that is doing the damage in this thread, it's the troll war between a couple of unreasonable people on each side, and your threats to sue RaceDepartment. If anything, your beef is with the trolls themselves, and in that respect your own Micas_WMD is among the guiltiest of all involved.

Personally my problem is with your goons invading a forum I've been a respected member of for 10 years and posting demonstrably misleading information about Project CARS which I know is misleading because I'm a ****ing simgeek investor who joined CARS back near the start and I can test **** for myself. Then one of these "Registered Today" lackeys tried to get me banned for trolling! This person was promptly banned himself, but by attacking me right from the start you made me wonder just how often this is happening. Again, for someone impartial to this entire thread here at RD, and to the official CARS forum in general (I read, I rarely ever post, the last post I made was supporting your proposal for the Road Rash motorcycle combat game) this just made you look bad.

I find it astounding that you let Micas_WMD troll in your name as he has in this thread, and it's hard to believe you'd prefer to attack a racing community over converting them to your side. Most of us aren't haters, we simply want some consistency and honesty.

That is my opinion.

 

[Micas_WMD]

I'm not 'trolling for Ian'. I'm posting on my own volition. Ian doesn't control, nor instruct WMD members on what to do or say on other forums. He's never asked me to do anything. In fact, Ian is absent for long periods of time as he's travelling and working on the various business interests of SMS. Andy Garton does the bulk of the development management.

As to 'converting the sim community', this argument has been going on for some 6 months or so. It is apparent there will be no converting regardless of what Ian or SMS does. It obvious this defamation will continue on to the release of the game. The closer we get to release with the defamation continuing, the more damages would accrue.

I see that RD is hosted in the EU judging by the whois. I'm not overly familiar with libel laws in the EU since I'm American. I'm sure the RD admins are though, and they're confident that the content here is not violating any EU laws. SMS' lawyers probably disagree, which is an opinion Ian would have sought, I would think, before coming here.

 

[BigSilverHotdog]

You've trolled this thread and made clear who you are and what you represent, how else do you think I found out except for you making it clear in post after post. I'm aware Ian Bell didn't tell you to do it. I'm shocked he allowed you to do it. You're the worst publicity a developer could possibly hope for, short of being caught eating live babies.

 

[Micas_WMD]

Oh, I see what the disconnect is here. You think this is "publicity".

 

[BigSilverHotdog]

Oh, I see what the disconnect is here. You think this is "publicity".

If it isn't, then why is Ian threatening to sue?

edit: or did you mean publicity in the marketing sense? In that case it's certainly bad publicity, but at this point not much of it. That can change though. "Game developer sues their own community" will look great on Reddit, and you know how the internet is about organizations bullying people over freedom of speech.

 

[Terry Rock]

Oh, I see what the disconnect is here. You think this is "publicity".

Just stop it already. You're making yourself look like an ass by continuing with this tit-for-tat..

 

[David Ignjatovic]

WHAT ABOUT CHANGING THE THREAD TITLE TO....."BANNED BY SMS"....?
This is clearly true and it can then be up to the reader to form an opinion of the merit or otherwise...

 

[BigSilverHotdog]

WHAT ABOUT CHANGING THE THREAD TITLE TO....."BANNED BY SMS"....?
This is clearly true and it can then be up to the reader to form an opinion of the merit or otherwise...

Why not indeed? This thread stopped being about Rob Every and his ban a long, long time ago.

 

[samuelw]

IMHO PCars is max entertainment. I have enjoyed it immensely without ever investing or driving a single lap. Never-the-less PCars has provided hours of amusement. Keep up the good work. (It does look pretty in the screenshots and videos.)

Sam

 

[Andy_J]

Andy, you openly admit you've not tried pCARS, yet you pan it at every opportunity. What level of validity do you think that adds to your 'arguments'?

Ian, lets get something straight here. I did pay to be a beta tester for PCars. Team Member status. I have tried many builds. I am no longer a WMD member (or employee) but get this, I still actually try the latest builds every 2 weeks. Amazing eh?

So never assume anything. It's right up their with validity matey.

What you do not understand is that people can say if your game is rubbish, sub-standard, full of crap if they wan't. They are allowed to do so. If I watch a movie in the cinema, I can get up and leave and tell the makers or the world that it is crap. It is allowed. You coming on here telling everyone that it is defamatory won't wash. You are making stuff up in order to scare the admin.

Actually if anyone needs action against them it's Micas. I think he has done most of the damage you talk about. I bet you regret taking his money now? But eh, I'm sure you'll be buying more supercars together after the profits roll in. So no worries mate.

Oh and Ian, please feel free to pm me and discuss this privately if you would rather as all this is nonsense and you know it. I have my own reasons for not liking PCars current builds and not liking what I think it might turn out like (I wish I could have stated so on the WMD forums but that wasn't allowed without bans). Those reasons are now secondary though as like others here and spreading, it's the way you and the likes of Micas handle things. Throwing your weight about on various forums. You must have run out of options now though as this latest debacle is to say the least, disgusting behaviour.

 

[Espen11]

I have my own reasons for not liking PCars current builds and not liking what I think it might turn out like (I wish I could have stated so on the WMD forums but that wasn't allowed without bans).

Constructive criticism will not get you banned. If you (as a hardcore simmer) had/have problems with the current state of pcars you can freely express that on WMD (many does). But, as with every part of life, criticism must be done right and backed up with an argument and reason. As an example, the inertia and physics in the current/temporary model is being openly discussed and disagreed with.

Those reasons are now secondary though as like others here and spreading, it's the way you and the likes of Micas handle things. Throwing your weight about on various forums. You must have run out of options now though as this latest debacle is to say the least, disgusting behaviour.

This thread has admittedly derailed and hit several trees during its existences. We are all partly responsible for that. This is of course also down to the weak/limited form of communication a forum represents in a disagreement/conflict. But when taking a step back and trying to analyse this I think it's clear that SMS/Ian does not have any agenda. (and in that sense, don't count Micas as a part of SMS)


--
Putting the personal feelings to a side. I still can't see why some sim-enthusiasts dislike pcars. Its aim is to be the best sim for pc and consoles (ok, best is subjective). As a consequence of the limited resources on consoles the physics must be reduced and a different tire-model must be used. This is what's in the current pcars build. A temporary tire-model for later use on consoles and for the AI. I believe this is a hugely impressive model and class-leading (for AI and consoles). The truly dynamic, fully simulated model intended for the pc platform is still in research-stage and no one can judge that yet.

Even the most critical pcars doubter agree that the graphics are good, models are the best and tracks are beautiful. So we are here starting a war over a placeholder AI and the tire-model and physics of the AI/consoles??

Also I can't help but feel we should (all of us, despite you don't like pcars) give SMS credit for their bravery and commitment as they are, by a loong way, the most open and sharing developer. We all want more open/transparent game development, right?