Andretti F1

trichens

Premium
I see that Andretti have been refused a place on the grid for 2025. Lots of different reasons but the only one that holds water is availability of an engine unit

If they haven't got something sorted to cover the period until the Cadillac is ready then they would need one of the existing manufacturers to supply them.

However they have been told 2028 MIGHT be possible. I think I'd want some guarantee of being accepted before I went any further with the project.
 
I assume the decision was based purely on projected short-term profit. It will be interesting to see if they underestimated the fan backlash. Maybe the backlash will be only from a limited group in the USA like me. Having attended several F1 races in the past, I certainly have no plans now.
 
It's a sad outcome for the long-time fans...

I think most of the Fl money comes from new era pay-TV "reality" TV watching fans - these ones probably not interested in history, better competition or don't want to buy Andretti merch etc. FOR-MOOLAH WON!

I have booked race tickets every year for the last 8 season (missed a couple for covid cancellations) but this only reinforced my resolve to enjoy not purchasing race tickets this season...
 
Liberty Media knows nothing about the freedom to succeed or fail. The comfortable F1 teams are content to play follow the leader as long as they can make $ doing it and keep anyone else who might upset their gravy train from joining. Formula 1 is comfortable cozying up to the worst human rights abusers and environment destroyers on Earth while trumpeting diversity, equity, and inclusion and obscenely waving a zero carbon banner made from toxic waste as they emerge from their corporate jets.

I would like to see Andretti, Penske, Ganassi, and anyone else (racing teams, old school tracks, consortiums, privateers, automotive OEMs) with wherewithall and competitive spirit create a new Formula Libre as an alternative to the over-regulated, wrongly restricted, stagnant specs which constitute today's F1. Decide on a standard driver protection tub and leave the rest open to "run what ya brung." Maybe produce an international sanctioning and licensing rival to the exclusive, regressive FIA Jabba the Hut bureaucracy.
 
What is F1?
Dead for me since a few years when Business completely destroyed the sport.
Even wrestling looks compared like a better sport.

Ecclestone was die hard business man and a lot went wrong in his times, but he had a sportsman heart. Now, its only about money.

To reject a team like andretti, with a proven ability of being competitive in many classes and the resources they have is just laughable
 
I suspect this may be a massive gaffe by FOM.
This isn't just another name in F1. It is the Andretti name.
Like it or not.. In a sport that is striving to capture a bigger slice of the North American market, this could be the worst decision.
Had they not put up the resources, the commitment from major players and not had the racing history, it'd be understandable.
I believe there will be a short-term reduction in interest here in NA, due in part to fans perceiving it as European biased.
I hope they can get over it quickly and resume interest.
On another note....It'd be interesting to see how much money and development Cadillac has already put in.
Maybe they should develop a supercar around what they've invested thus far.
 
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FIA is more politics than racing.

I would love to see Andretti back in F1; whether I shall live to see it is another matter.
The FIA had already agreed to the Andretti entrance, it's the FOM this time, and of course they are swayed by the other 'pathetic' teams to only keep it to ten teams.

No matter what Bernie did or didn't do, he would have got it back to 13 teams I'm sure he was a smart sportsman, but even he got ejected by this bunch of money grabbers.

The teams are cowards and the FOM are looking not at retaining long term business but getting new business for short term, it's how all big businesses work now, if you plan to loose 15-20% PA you must plan to gain 25% through new markets, (and, most of the dissatisfied in the west will continue to use the service anyway) and new opportunities open up all the time with a little 'folding' paperwork.
 
FIA is more politics than racing.

I would love to see Andretti back in F1; whether I shall live to see it is another matter.
Politics is sport, they are fighting over Money distribution. We have 3 American races and rumors are we may get a 4th. So a American Team with a competitive driver (Sorry Logan) with a shot at a tittle will only boost American interest. And America has INDY CAR a break away from F1 so American drivers prefer to run locally. The same goes for Canadian and south American. Even drivers from Europe. Andretti can buy HASS but that means layoffs as Andretti have their own people to work with. But they can develop a car that can be in the middle or the front in 5 years. Something HASS cant do with their business model. Andretti are running many successful programs in Formula e Maybe INDY Car (I am not shore as i don't follow it)
 
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So a American Team with a competitive driver (Sorry Logan) with a shot at a tittle will only boost American interest

To a degree. But F1 has an uphill battle to gain any real popularity in the US; there is, of course, a fan base here, but I do not foresee any major shift in those numbers. When Andretti won the F1 championship in 1978 he got maybe a fourth the media attention as the NASCAR champ, Cale Yarborough.

An "American" team would have be to be completely US based to gain any amount of attention; a British chassis with a French engine and a Brazilian driver would not be seen as "American" no matter whose name was on the team or who financed it. There's also a matter of name recognition; one reason for the continued popularity of NASCARE is everyone is familiar with Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and Toyota, but how many F1 teams have names that would mean anything to the average American.

Even if there are four races in the US, or even in North America, that is still few and far between. Europe has eight or nine races each year in an area half the size of the US, so naturally it's more popular there; no matter where you live there's a couple of races in easy driving distance, and the rest are a short flight.

And F1 still has a reputation to overcome here. They are still perceived as a group of arrogant millionaire playboys who deign to come to this country a couple of times a year for millions of dollars, never interact or mingle, just "take the money and run" back to their chateaus and yachts.

There is a European NASCARE series, but it bears little relation to its US counterpart. There are only seven or eight races each season, all on road courses, and the cars are only around 450hp. But they use Fords, Chevys, and Toyotas. NASCARE tailored for a European market. I think this is what F1 would need to become truly popular here - a North American F1 series.
 
To a degree. But F1 has an uphill battle to gain any real popularity in the US; there is, of course, a fan base here, but I do not foresee any major shift in those numbers. When Andretti won the F1 championship in 1978 he got maybe a fourth the media attention as the NASCAR champ, Cale Yarborough.

An "American" team would have be to be completely US based to gain any amount of attention; a British chassis with a French engine and a Brazilian driver would not be seen as "American" no matter whose name was on the team or who financed it. There's also a matter of name recognition; one reason for the continued popularity of NASCARE is everyone is familiar with Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and Toyota, but how many F1 teams have names that would mean anything to the average American.

Even if there are four races in the US, or even in North America, that is still few and far between. Europe has eight or nine races each year in an area half the size of the US, so naturally it's more popular there; no matter where you live there's a couple of races in easy driving distance, and the rest are a short flight.

And F1 still has a reputation to overcome here. They are still perceived as a group of arrogant millionaire playboys who deign to come to this country a couple of times a year for millions of dollars, never interact or mingle, just "take the money and run" back to their chateaus and yachts.

There is a European NASCARE series, but it bears little relation to its US counterpart. There are only seven or eight races each season, all on road courses, and the cars are only around 450hp. But they use Fords, Chevys, and Toyotas. NASCARE tailored for a European market. I think this is what F1 would need to become truly popular here - a North American F1 series.
I do agree with many of your points but there's another big stumbling block, the USA has for decades kinda cut itself off from the world with the attitude that it has all it wants under one roof, it has it's own championships for it's own manufacturers and none of them have been interested in producing an engine for F1, whereas the Japanese have embraced it with Honda and Toyota, hell even Yamaha and Subaru had a go, and Australia has many drivers that find F1 support, but the USA industries seem to have built their rubber walls quite high.
 
it has it's own championships for it's own manufacturers and none of them have been interested in producing an engine for F1

The chicken or the egg.... a circular argument to be sure. If there were more interest in F1 here more companies would be inclined to get involved, but if more US companies were involved there would be more interest.

This is exacerbated by the trend of the last 60 years of all sport becoming big business. Once that happens the sport becomes controlled by the sponsors, most of whom have little interest in the sport itself but merely see it as a source of revenue, from then on everything - rules, regulations, venues, participants, etc. - is geared towards maximizing profits for greater dividends for the investors/sponsors.

If F1 can foresee a massive profit they will come to the US; if US companies can envision massive returns on investment, they will go to F1.
 
What the decision against Andretti tells is that F1 these days is only about making money. There is no room for tradition in terms of building one F1 fanbase in a way to get a true Fanbase in the US. Its all about making money in the US, seen on the new added Location. They are aware if this does not work in a few years they move on, to the middle east, asia or the moon. A deep in the US race tradition angled Team like Andretti would help in the US, but they, the F1 owner and Teams, are not interested to share there income with a newbie because, as i said, if the US Expansion fails, they move on.
 
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The chicken or the egg.... a circular argument to be sure. If there were more interest in F1 here more companies would be inclined to get involved, but if more US companies were involved there would be more interest.

This is exacerbated by the trend of the last 60 years of all sport becoming big business. Once that happens the sport becomes controlled by the sponsors, most of whom have little interest in the sport itself but merely see it as a source of revenue, from then on everything - rules, regulations, venues, participants, etc. - is geared towards maximizing profits for greater dividends for the investors/sponsors.

If F1 can foresee a massive profit they will come to the US; if US companies can envision massive returns on investment, they will go to F1.
Chicken and egg indeed, but look at the auto manufacturers markets, the USA only really have a domestic market vision, the Japanese want to sell world wide as do the Europeans, I understand that most US auto manufacturers have their 'lesser' brothers in Europe but they seem to have all but cut ties with the output and business model used there, just a handful of American cars are made in RHD for the British/Australian/Japanese markets whereas we (UK) produce*d a great deal of LHD cars for the American/European (export) markets.

I think that Gene Haas needs a rethink on his F1 business model, and bite the bullet to having the team based in one place, I think that would help ground them, while they have a foot either side of the ocean they're stretched too far and having folk in Italy too messes it up further.
If Andretti want to work solely in the US that's brave, they won't have the infrastructure that the major teams enjoy being based in the UK, but hopefully it will be enough and perhaps an avenue to breath new life into F1... if the F1 teams ever feel that they need to become a 'sport' again and let competition in.

*we had a fantastic list of car companies once... lol
 
the USA only really have a domestic market vision

Because the US business model is to buy out the competition rather than build a better product (how many competitors does Micro$oft have?). If the competition is in another country they run crying to congress to impose trade embargoes. For years most US cars were viewed by the rest of the world as "retro-tech" gas hogs with poor quality control; and the huge land barges favored by US drivers were a poor fit in most European and Asian cities.

So a US manufacturer would have to make "European" cars to succeed in the market there. (https://www.cardebater.com/why-dont-europeans-drive-pickup-trucks/)

But for "chicken and egg" I refer to F1 in the US. It will not gain more interest here unless there is US involvement but US companies are reticent to get involved when there is so little interest.
 
Because the US business model is to buy out the competition rather than build a better product (how many competitors does Micro$oft have?). If the competition is in another country they run crying to congress to impose trade embargoes.
I should point out: This is hardly exclusive to the US. You need only to look at Volkswagen AG over the past 30 or so years to see that in action. Or at Stellantis.
 
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I should point out: This is hardly exclusive to the US. You need only to look at Volkswagen AG over the past 30 or so years to see that in action. Or at Stellantis.
Yes, it was a shock to hear VW owned Bentley, and that Rolls-Royce is owned by BMW.
 
Yes, it was a shock to hear VW owned Bentley, and that Rolls-Royce is owned by BMW.
Yeah, there has been some quite repellent takeovers, Ford and later Tata taking over Jaguar and Lamborghini owned by Chrysler then VAG*, but business goes where the money is, just look at the washing powder company making luxury ice creams.

*Though at VAG Lamborghini do seem to have thrived and are still allowed to produce 'mad' cars
 
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