2018 Italian Grand Prix: Vettel vs Hamilton - Who Was at Fault?

[BlackToof]

no fault for seb and hamilton, just f1 race event at a chicane, one overtake, other defend his position...that's all

 

[protonv5]

Sorry that everyone is confused, but this was Hamilton's fault. He came from behind and forced his way through. Even he said so. If you force your way through then of course someone is left with no room. He caused the contact. According to just about everyone's logic: If someone is forcing their way through from behind, it's your job to just get out of the way. What?

 

[Durge Driven]

Just because someone thinks it was Seb's fault does not mean it can't be a racing accident.

The move was not intentional ergo it must be a accident

But that does not diminish Seb's involvement especially when Lewis did everything text book

They should stop this stupid rule a crew can go to pit lane whenever they feel like just to slow another car into their box

 

[Andrew King]

Vettel out here handing free wins to Mercedes lol

 

[Peter Hooper]

Agree with the racing incident decision but Vettell was the cause in my view. In those type of tight situations it too often seems to end in contact when he's involved.

 

[thebluegansta1]

Another one from Vettel. Ferrari fire him pls

 

[Durge Driven]

Vettel out here handing free wins to Mercedes lol

I think Kimi and Seb will cringe when they see replay, both drove like maniacs lol

 

[Cote Dazur]

Not a Hamilton fan as far as the man is concerned but he proved again today what a superior driver he is. hopefully today's result will give him a well deserved world driver championship at the end of the season. He his making the difference this year.

 

[Steve Worrell]

Sorry that everyone is confused, but this was Hamilton's fault. He came from behind and forced his way through. Even he said so. If you force your way through then of course someone is left with no room. He caused the contact. According to just about everyone's logic: If someone is forcing their way through from behind, it's your job to just get out of the way. What?

Haha you can't be serious?

It was a bold move by Lewis yes but that's what racing is all about. Lewis tried to go round the outside, at a tight chicane, of a Ferrari, at Monza, driven by a 4 time world champion...

He gave him enough room, seb just misjudged it s bit.

Do you want DRS passes on the straigts, with gentlemans agreements as they pass "coming through on your starboard side" "right o old chap, have good race"

 

[protonv5]

Haha you can't be serious?

It was a bold move by Lewis yes but that's what racing is all about. Lewis tried to go round the outside, at a tight chicane, of a Ferrari, at Monza, driven by a 4 time world champion...

He gave him enough room, seb just misjudged it s bit.

Do you want DRS passes on the straigts, with gentlemans agreements as they pass "coming through on your starboard side" "right o old chap, have good race"

Gentleman racing would be nice, yes. That's what it used to be. It's quickly becoming NASCAR. But, so be it. I guess that's what everyone wants.

 

[Richard Dastardly]

Gentleman racing would be nice, yes. That's what it used to be. It's quickly becoming NASCAR. But, so be it. I guess that's what everyone wants.

Are you kidding? go listen to 60s drivers talking about all the dirty tricks they got up to, like clipping the dirt to kick stones up into the driver behind. Racing has never been like that on track unless someone was in the process of dying.

So Lewis went around Vettel, left him half the track and got hit, and it's somehow his fault for the cheek of daring to do that? nope, SV needs to calm a bit.

 

[LEDzZzEPP]

Maybe not come to the case, but over the years i see in F1 a large increase of haters who do not really love the motorsport for what it is, and who have entered in a loop of loving the dress of a color and hate the one who wears a different color, I imagine that there are several factors involved in this, but fundamentally I think it is due to a meticulous work on the part of the press that washes the brains of those who lack personality

I just hope that F1 fans do not become idiots as it happens with other sports...(for example football), although inevitably it seems that this is what is going to happen

 

[Diogo Goetz Brand]

If this was a racing incident, which I believe it is, then so too was the Bottas/Verstappen incident. Essentially the same thing. Max left Bottas just enough room to maybe kinda avoid contact and that's exactly what Hamilton did. Once again, F1 is inconsistent with their calls based on the driver's reputation alone.

Bottas had both his tyres over the white line, and still was hit by Verstappen, who seems unable to brake in a straight line whenever he is defending (AKA blocking) from an overtake.
Yet in your opinion "Max left Bottas just enough room to maybe kinda avoid contact".
Since I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt, would you care to explain your opinion?

 

[michelforest]

Vettel seems to be responsible, but to me, that's a racing incident, period. Anyway, even if Vettel had been found "guilty" by the stewards, a penalty would have been too harsh: Hamilton did not lose anything and Vettel was heavily penalised when he dropped to last place. (He got lucky there was a safety car right after the incident.)

The real story of the race, in my opinion, is how Ferrari managed to miss a race win by having Raikonnen pit 8 laps before Hamilton. Too bad, it would have been cool to see Kimi win at Monza.

 

[NDG]

Blame it on the stars that decide the future of these drivers.

After Vettel momentarily lost concentration in front of the thongs of people, he will be counting crashes just like Max V. I'll be counting the agree and disagree on this one... Also, the crashes that will come to Vettel after this omen on his career.

 

[Tero Dahlberg]

"Who was at fault?"

Imo to lay blame on someone in an incident means that they've made a clear misjudgement that leads to contact. Either by directly making contact with another car or by forcing another car in to a situation where they don't have a reasonable chance to avoid contact with another car or wall, or can't keep the car on the racing surface.

Imo you can't lay blame on one driver and then call it a racing incident. It doesn't make sense.

Racing isn't without risk and therefore overtaking isn't without risk either. That's why there's the concept of a racing incident. As I see it a racing incident is where one or more parties involved make a slight misjudgement and there is contact or leaving off the racing surface. Everyone is allowed a small margin of error in a "tough to navigate" situation. Which I realise isn't a very clear description. But maybe the next chapter gives a better idea of what I mean by it.

This is why imo VET-HAM situation was a racing incident with neither one clearly to blame. There are many things to consider during the incident. It's the first lap, tyres and brakes are cold, they have cars close in front and behind, both are taking an unusual line to and through the corner and don't know the grip level off the racing line and etc. and they are trying to get the most out of their cars in the situation. Imo both did their best to make it a fair racing situation and neither one made a clear misjudgement. The fact that VET spun from the contact was just a matter of luck and could not be predicted.

Where Verstappen v Bottas is different is quite simple. First of all regarding the rules, you're allowed to make one move to defend your position and then allowed to move back toward the racing line but have to leave at least a cars width of room on the racing surface when approaching the corner. VER simply moved too far back toward the racing line. And imo there was nothing especially challenging that made it very difficult for him to judge. Race was near the end at that point, tyres and brakes are up to temp, his line into the chicane wasn't massively compromised. He was driving and braking in a straight line, basically unhindered, and failed to judge how much room he left for BOT. It wasn't a big misjudgement but a clear one. And most importantly a clear breach of the racing rules. I would not say VER was blocking though.

 

[beedeetwelve]

Wouldn't call it 'fault' as in one guy tried to screw the other guy, but the only point I'd make is that there was plenty of grey stuff to Sebastian's left for him to load up and try again later on in the race. Understeer aside, it's still his fault he wound up in 18th.

 

[BhZ]

While it may be difficult to see the driver you support lose, this 'booing' of drivers I find a bit classless.

I must say something about this. The booing doesn't come from the fact that Hamilton won the race, the booing and the people shouting" shame" came from the way Hamilton won this race (basically Bottas did it for him) and what Hamilton has said in the past 2 years to piss people off. He can't say whatever he wants and expect to be treated nicely. That said, i'm not a fan of the booing either, but i find it totally understandable as from the spectators point of view, that's the only way they can "reply" to him.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

It was embarrassing to watch. Those fans really showed themselves up as bad losers. I thought Italian people were better than that

 

[BhZ]

I thought Italian people were better than that

Don't generalize. Just because some people have done what they have done, doesn't mean the whole country is like that.
Either way, this is no different from hamilton saying that Ferrari used "interesting tactics" or "tricks" to win races, yet you don't see me accusing all the englishmen for being bad losers.