2013 Formula One Singapore Grand Prix

[Markus Neumann]

And we know from the traction the Ferrari has that it has a hell of a weight sitting on the rear tires, whether by downforce or weight distribution.

Then why is the Red Bull so much stronger out of corners than every other car, including the Ferrari? This whole "Ferrari has great starts, hence their weight distribution must be off" argument is ludicrous.

 

[Chris Brand]

Then why is the Red Bull so much stronger out of corners than every other car, including the Ferrari? This whole "Ferrari has great starts, hence their weight distribution must be off" argument is ludicrous.

Because the ferrari suffers from understeer, so has to take a slower approach into corners. Their weight distribution isn't necessarily off, that's just how they've setup their car hoping to counter it. What you need to remember is their are a lot of slow corners in singapore which rely purely on mechanical grip only.

 

[Mark Gormley]

I think Ferrari tend to run a relatively slow steering rack anyway, which might make it look like its understeering all the time compared to other teams, but didn't Renault used to have quite a rearward weight distribution in 05-06? I know it's just speculation but I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to hypothesise that Fernando would try to emulate those characteristics.

 

[David Garcia]

For those who don´t want to go blind over and over again, you can read that article by Giancarlo Minardi: http://www.minardi.it/international...ey-and-vettels-magic-hatsthash-ukc90dky-dpuf/

 

[Mark Gormley]

Speeding up (which I assume is accelerating) 50 metres (well over 10 car lengths) before other drivers? In his Red Bull RB1, a car from 2005? And I'm not sure what his implication is regarding engine noise and traction control.

 

[Chris Brand]

Speeding up (which I assume is accelerating) 50 metres (well over 10 car lengths) before other drivers? In his Red Bull RB1, a car from 2005? And I'm not sure what his implication is regarding engine noise and traction control.

Uh oh. We got another Red Bull use traction control hater over here.

Edit: By this I was meaning the article writer, not any RD users

Analysis of that article:

Doubt 1: I don't understand how the writer could accurately compare times for that small section of track, which is a fraction of Sector 1. However, Vettel being able to drive through these corners without any mistakes just means that he has set his car up to be able to attack the kerbs easier, and that he has practiced it well. Doesn't necessarily mean the car is better or worse than other cars, more the setup of those cars and how the drivers take those corners.

Doubt 2: Not sure what the writer is meaning here. Is he comparing where the RB1 car could accelerate compared to the 2013 cars or has he made a mistake in the article? It's hard to explain what this grinding sound would be without actually hearing it. One possible explanation is this: I know Vettel runs his car with extremely short 1st,2nd and 3rd gears street tracks like this, so the grinding could be the car hitting the limiter while exiting these corners? I'm not sure how he could say that this sound is similar to the sound made by an engine with TC, since TC hasn't been allowed in F1 since the start of 2008 with the introduction of the standard ECU. Whatever this sound is it cannot be traction control because all F1 cars run the same ECU provided by McLaren, and any other gismos would be found by the FIA (like the fuel management profiles RB ran in hockenheim as a form of TC, which has since been banned).

Finally, Vettel has always been good at restarts after safety cars. And the fact that he pulls away as quickly as he does is not uncommon from a restart as the front runner has a distinct advantage over everyone else as they control the pace and launch when they want.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Ho3n3r]

For those who don´t want to go blind over and over again, you can read that article by Giancarlo Minardi: http://www.minardi.it/international...ey-and-vettels-magic-hatsthash-ukc90dky-dpuf/

That article is not even going to be dignified with a response from me. Biggest pile of I've read all year.

 

[David Garcia]

Cmon guys more than 2 seconds per lap faster and you still find it is normal??? The bigest pile of ****...? Giancarlo Minardi has no credit? LOL

What a binch of Vettel lovers aroud here.

 

[Chris Brand]

Cmon guys more than 2 seconds per lap faster and you still find it is normal??? The bigest pile of ****...? Giancarlo Minardi has no credit? LOL

What a binch of Vettel lovers aroud here.

Read my analysis. You might not agree but it's all fact.

 

[Ho3n3r]

Read my analysis. You might not agree but it's all fact.

Don't even bother mate. I know an ignoramus when I see one, and I've noticed more than a few lately

You'd have a better argument with a rock.

 

[Chris Brand]

Don't even bother mate. I know an ignoramus when I see one, and I've noticed more than a few lately

You'd have a better argument with a rock.

Now that you mention it I had a good discussion with a rock once.

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

Cmon guys more than 2 seconds per lap faster and you still find it is normal??? The bigest pile of ****...? Giancarlo Minardi has no credit? LOL

What a binch of Vettel lovers aroud here.

So you want to know how SV was 2 seconds per lap Faster is that it.
Here it is
After the Start SV was Usually puling away from others and stabilized the gap. But after the restart of SC. SV was pulling away very quickly around 2 per lap + .
He solely focused on how SV was going was faster but not even cared the circumstances around that.
Rosberg after Restart was holding the pack up and Conserving tires but RBR told SV to go for Gap. He just pushed hard by taking every thing out of tires and Pushed his car to limit. So when his Opponent was going slower the Gap was increasing very quickly which almost made him to have a pit stop and come out ahead of Alonso who at that time was P2.
After his Pit stop Alonso was 4 sec behind Sebastian and not going to stop where as Sebastian who just pitted has Unused Fresh Super soft rubber which is way quicker than FA's Worn Mediums. Which made him putting even bigger gap even with out pushing due to Super soft To Medium delta gap.
So Conclusion SV has best car but not by 2 seconds margin. It was only 5 to 6 tenths per lap quicker in the hands of SV. and the 2 second margin was only due to circumstances where his Rivals are conserving tires and going deliberately slowly to save the tires. Merc strategy even confused others notably Force India where they thought "This was Pace management from Rosberg Paul Attack when you can"
About Restart's Vettel generally stamps his Authority over others as he was the one leading and goes very quickly nothing new.
Finally If a Analyst doesn't consider all the situations and makes his assessment only on One point is nothing but crap. It doesn't matter who that was.

 

[Ho3n3r]

So you want to know how SV was 2 seconds per lap Faster is that it.
Here it is
After the Start SV was Usually puling away from others and stabilized the gap. But after the restart of SC. SV was pulling away very quickly around 2 per lap + .
He solely focused on how SV was going was faster but not even cared the circumstances around that.
Rosberg after Restart was holding the pack up and Conserving tires but RBR told SV to go for Gap. He just pushed hard by taking every thing out of tires and Pushed his car to limit. So when his Opponent was going slower the Gap was increasing very quickly which almost made him to have a pit stop and come out ahead of Alonso who at that time was P2.
After his Pit stop Alonso was 4 sec behind Sebastian and not going to stop where as Sebastian who just pitted has Unused Fresh Super soft rubber which is way quicker than FA's Worn Mediums. Which made him putting even bigger gap even with out pushing due to Super soft To Medium delta gap.
So Conclusion SV has best car but not by 2 seconds margin. It was only 5 to 6 tenths per lap quicker in the hands of SV. and the 2 second margin was only due to circumstances where his Rivals are conserving tires and going deliberately slowly to save the tires. Merc strategy even confused others notably Force India where they thought "This was Pace management from Rosberg Paul Attack when you can"
About Restart's Vettel generally stamps his Authority over others as he was the one leading and goes very quickly nothing new.
Finally If a Analyst doesn't consider all the situations and makes his assessment only on One point is nothing but crap. It doesn't matter who that was.

Jeez you're gonna hurt the Vettel haters' brains with that thorough and accurate analysis, mate

 

[kelaroost]

This is kind of old news,
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/mar/20/sebastian-vettel-red-bull-david-coulthard

David Coulthard says Sebastian Vettel must move to achieve greatness

This is a racing driver saying the same thing most people think.
Its easy to win if your car is much faster,
Its no surprise kimi raikkonen did not get into the red bull team because SV didn't want it so,
He would be to of much of a handful and his chances of winning another race would be dependent on kimi raikkonen`s car breaking down.
Its hard to try to explain to SV fan his no better than any other driver they do not want to listen to reason, His the best in there eyes,
He still hasn't proved himself because his not racing again a X world champion within the same team
Untill that day or until he drives for a different team and wins he will NEVER be seen as the best,
Simple fact is he isn't the best and never will be but I would like to be proved wrong but I wont be.

 

[Chris Brand]

This is kind of old news,
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/mar/20/sebastian-vettel-red-bull-david-coulthard

David Coulthard says Sebastian Vettel must move to achieve greatness

This is a racing driver saying the same thing most people think.
Its easy to win if your car is much faster,
Its no surprise kimi raikkonen did not get into the red bull team because SV didn't want it so,
He would be to of much of a handful and his chances of winning another race would be dependent on kimi raikkonen`s car breaking down.
Its hard to try to explain to SV fan his no better than any other driver they do not want to listen to reason, His the best in there eyes,
He still hasn't proved himself because his not racing again a X world champion within the same team
Untill that day or until he drives for a different team and wins he will NEVER be seen as the best,
Simple fact is he isn't the best and never will be but I would like to be proved wrong but I wont be.

Likewise Vettel haters will never be convinced. Unfortunately, once again, you've read the title of that article but you haven't read the entire article. I would like to point out some key points:

"As one of only three drivers to have won three straight titles – Juan Manuel Fangio and Michael Schumacher are the others – Vettel has already achieved greatness according to most respected judges within the sport."
I don't see how you can disagree here since you're not a respected judge in F1.

"Vettel can strengthen his legacy by finding success somewhere else."
Coulthard is not saying he doesn't leave a legacy right now, he's saying he will only make it bigger if he wins in another team.

"Two of the greatest drivers – perhaps the two greatest – were single-team men. Jim Clark won both his titles with Lotus and Ayrton Senna did his treble at McLaren."
This is proof that Vettel does NOT need to switch teams to be considered great in history.

However I will admit that Vettel would gain a lot more respect by moving teams, he doesn't have to move teams to be considered great.
I will also agree with what you're saying about Raikkonen not moving to Red Bull. The team will have seen that it would be a permanent battle between Vettel and Raikkonen and would rather have a distinct 1-2 driver, however I don't think it would be down to Raikkonen's car breaking down for Vettel to win, I think it would be fairly evenly matched throughout a season.

Lastly, I would like to point out that most people here who have disagreed with you are not, as you put it, Vettel fanatics, but rather respect him along with other drivers equally. If you look back there have been many people who have also said this. I doubt you've read this far since you haven't anywhere else, but I'm not starting an argument, I'm just providing you the proof from your own evidence that Vettel will be considered great whether or not he leaves Red Bull, but what is undecided is his legacy.

The End.

 

[Ho3n3r]

This is kind of old news,
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/mar/20/sebastian-vettel-red-bull-david-coulthard

David Coulthard says Sebastian Vettel must move to achieve greatness

This is a racing driver saying the same thing most people think.
Its easy to win if your car is much faster,
Its no surprise kimi raikkonen did not get into the red bull team because SV didn't want it so,
He would be to of much of a handful and his chances of winning another race would be dependent on kimi raikkonen`s car breaking down.
Its hard to try to explain to SV fan his no better than any other driver they do not want to listen to reason, His the best in there eyes,
He still hasn't proved himself because his not racing again a X world champion within the same team
Untill that day or until he drives for a different team and wins he will NEVER be seen as the best,
Simple fact is he isn't the best and never will be but I would like to be proved wrong but I wont be.

You cannot be disproved if you haven't proved anything yet. Everything you've posted is just someone's OPINION.

But whatever makes you happy.

 

[Chris Brand]

You cannot be disproved if you haven't proved anything yet. Everything you've posted is just someone's OPINION.

But whatever makes you happy.

Well to be fair to kelaroost, every piece of evidence that's been supplied is opinion one way or the other. The only way we would get hard evidence is if both Ferrari and Red Bull made Vettel and Alonso's telemetry from Singapore available, and divulged the data about each drivers' setup. This is never going to happen so opinion is what we must go on.

 

[Ho3n3r]

Well to be fair to kelaroost, every piece of evidence that's been supplied is opinion one way or the other. The only way we would get hard evidence is if both Ferrari and Red Bull made Vettel and Alonso's telemetry from Singapore available, and divulged the data about each drivers' setup. This is never going to happen so opinion is what we must go on.

Indeed. But he was the one using the word PROOF, no-one else

 

[David Garcia]

However I will admit that Vettel would gain a lot more respect by moving teams, he doesn't have to move teams to be considered great.

More respect??? If Vettel puts a feet out of Red Bull´s dream machine he won´t win a single champ again. The end.

To me, thinking Vettel had that laptime diference compared to the others because he is talented is like a joke. Please stop it guys I am having too much fun, way too much. In next graphic you can see the average laptimes of the race. As you will see, nobody, not with the super soft or any other tire gets closer to Seb laptimes... something is wrong there. HERE

As it is an spanish website, I am translating for you. The five best average laptimes of the race were next:
1st Vettel: 1.51:532
2nd Rosberg: 1.52:655
3d Alonso: 1.52:838
4th Hamilton: 1.52:912
5th Webber: 1.52:913

Is really Webber so poorly skilled as to lap 1.4 secs per lap slower than Vettel???

 

[Chris Brand]

More respect??? If Vettel puts a feet out of Red Bull´s dream machine he won´t win a single champ again. The end.

To me, thinking Vettel had that laptime diference compared to the others because he is talented is like a joke. Please stop it guys I am having too much fun, way too much. In next graphic you can see the average laptimes of the race. As you will see, nobody, not with the super soft or any other tire gets closer to Seb laptimes... something is wrong there. HERE

As it is an spanish website, I am translating for you. The five best average laptimes of the race were next:
1st Vettel: 1.51:532
2nd Rosberg: 1.52:655
3d Alonso: 1.52:838
4th Hamilton: 1.52:912
5th Webber: 1.52:913

Is really Webber so poorly skilled as to lap 1.4 secs per lap slower than Vettel???

I highly doubt that considering back when he was a junior and drove the Torro Rosso at silverstone in a Free Practice session, he beat everyone elses time, so I disagree with you. He would definitely win another championship, maybe just not as easily. What is wrong there is every other team's inability to match the Red Bull. It's not that he should slow down, more they should speed up. As you can see by Webber's times, it's not purely the car that causes Vettel to be fast. It's a combination of man and machine. In this case, the combination has been perfected. But clearly there has been many times when this hasn't been the case, otherwise Vettel would have won every single race. At this point in time I think Webber isn't pushing as hard as he once did. He knows he's finished, so he doesn't have the pressure of winning the title, or getting a drive for next year. His future is secure, why bother? For everyone to think that Vettel is so much faster than everyone else because his car (which is almost identical to Webbers) has some hidden system that makes him so much faster is ridiculous and laughable.