EA Sports WRC: Pivot Point Debate Ultimately Does Not Matter

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With the release of EA Sports WRC just around the corner, a debate about its physics has emerged. Do the cars have a single pivot point or not? And does it even matter?

Image credit: EA Sports

Note (October 21st): The article previously stated that the YouTuber who created the physics analysis video had access to the preview build of the game. However, the EA Sports WRC footage in their video is not from that version. The article has been corrected accordingly.

Arguments about the accuracy of physics models in sim racing are probably as old as the genre itself. As a result, it should come as no surprise that even ahead of EA Sports WRC‘s release, a debate has broken out about this very element. Mind you, this is without most sim racers even having gotten their hands on the title, as a preview version was made available only to influencers and media outlets thus far.

EA Sports WRC Physics: Central Pivot Point?​

So, what is the matter with it? Put simply, YouTuber mrelwood games has released a video looking into the physics of DiRT Rally 2.0 and EA Sports WRC. Their video is based on clips from DiRT Rally 2.0 and official gameplay preview clips of EA Sports WRC. Allegedly, EA Sports WRC, just like DiRT Rally 2.0, has cars rotate around a single, central pivot point, instead of their tires actually slipping.


Interestingly, most of the evidence in the video comes from tarmac stages and from third-person view. This is where I have an issue with it: It may look like the pivot point theory is correct from that point of view, but the camera tends to swing around a bit in this view. Could this add to the perceived effect? It is a possibility.

Basically, the theory states that this central pivot point would be a “cheap” way to make the car feel like it is sliding at all times, but not out of control. Numerous comments on YouTube seem to prove mrelwood games right.

Theory Disproven?​

However, voices stating the opposite also started appearing. A Reddit post aims to disprove the theory, stating that if the car would pivot around a central point, the rear wheels should hit a close-by wall when trying to steer away from it. This appears not to be the case in their video clips.

The pivot point theory may explain the “off feeling” they get from DiRT Rally 2.0‘s physics for some. Others argue that there is no evidence to support this. Either way, it does not really matter if you look a the core aspect of EA Sports WRC: It is fun.

Now, the die-hard sim racers may crucify me for this opinion, but in the end, it is all that counts. Would we spend thousands of bucks on sim racing equipment if it was not fun to us? Of course, this definition is always subjective. But the majority of reviewers who have tried EA Sports WRC ahead of release seem to agree that it is immensely enjoyable. Pivot point or not.


Focus On What Is Fun​

The title is still satisfying to play as a sim racer. It may be forgiving here and there, but the driving feel is far from the dreaded “arcade”. However, a number of assists ensure that as many players as possible can enjoy it. This includes those on a controller, as well as beginners and novices.

And while that may not be as hardcore as many people would like, it is enjoyable for a lot of players. Tarmac handling may still not be perfect, but it did feel nice in the preview version. The cars were more agile than in DR2.0, inspired confidence to push, and felt absolutely rapid. That sounds like a recipe for a good time to me.


EA Sports WRC Pivot Point Theory: It Does Not Matter​

Whether or not the pivot point theory is correct, this article will not judge. The essential takeaway from it is something that often feels like it is missing for many sim racers: Go and enjoy driving virtual race cars! If you are having fun out there, you likely will not be thinking about physics quirks.

EA Sports WRC launches on November 3rd. The game will be available on PC, Xbox Series X|S, and PlayStation 5.

What is your take on the EA Sports WRC debate? Let us know on Twitter @OverTake_gg or in the comments below!
About author
Yannik Haustein
Lifelong motorsport enthusiast and sim racing aficionado, walking racing history encyclopedia.

Sim racing editor, streamer and one half of the SimRacing Buddies podcast (warning, German!).

Heel & Toe Gang 4 life :D

Comments

YouTuber mrelwood games has released a video looking into the physics of DiRT Rally 2.0 and EA Sports WRC. They did have access to the preview version, so they actually got their hands on the title. As a result, footage that is supposed to prove their point is found in the video.

This must be a joke, he says in the video that he didn't have the preview version, all the gameplay he shows from EA WRC is from their official preview video. If you had watched and listened to it, you would know.


Either way, it does not really matter if you look a the core aspect of EA Sports WRC: It is fun.

I think this has to have been written for comment baiting, it's obvious that on RaceDepartment, a simracing site, people would call you out on this "article."
 
Isn't this a very simple issue to resolve? Just ask EA/Codies if the cars use individual wheel/tire physics like most sims on a PC or do they use a single pivot with hovercraft-style floatation over an essentially flat ribbon of track programmed with canned bumps (like all the prior console-based rally games)?

It can still be fun if it is a console-style "arcade" game, but to be honest something like WRC: Generations is so ludicrously unrealistic that it is difficult to enjoy if using sim hardware. That's why the devs should be transparent about their creation. A game like Wreckfest has realistic-enough physics to be fun, even though it is obviously not "sim" realistic. It shouldn't be surprising that many in the audience here at RD would like a simple clarification from devs about something this elemental to a racing game.
 
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I have no issues controlling the car and it's not about the grip level but how the car behaves otherwise. A shopping cart is the closest comparison I can come up with.
it's their mo, complain about one of their faves and they retort with an ad hominem "you don't have the skillz" attack........while they complain about other sims constantly.
 
Overtake has been completely tone deaf to the type of audience they're now writing articles for since the RaceDepartment merger. RD does not need someone to state the bleeding obvious in regards to how to play WRC before it's official release date, nor does it want someone else telling them to stop debating about physics when physics debates are literally half of the point of the site.

Write better articles. I don't mind if you still want to hype up the new game, I'm hype for it myself, but at least offer something interesting and new rather than obvious ads.
 
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EA will always choose the shortest, cheapest way to the highest profit, like it always did. And that means minimal or no development time paired with just enough marketing.
Codemasters is making the game, not EA Sports. EA sports owns them, but they are making the games. I wish EA Sports was making it on their own, because it would probably be better.
You can say anything you want about their greed, but their products are of decent quality. I'm old enough to have played pretty much all EA Sports games and there aren't many of them that disappointed me.
Codemasters on the other hand....i haven't spent more than 10 hours in any of their games since CMR3, and i didn't even "finish" CMR3 either. I haven't even touched Dirt games except from Dirt Rally and eventually i got fed up with them. Unfortunately KT didn't offer much competition and so DR became a rally game GOD.
Now that Codemasters has ZERO competition, they'll keep making the same crap, every year. But again, i see no reason why i should blame EA.
 
Surely a relevant input!

At my first DR2.0 driveout in the playpen together with my simrig including handbrake I clearly remember the prominent central pivot point rotation feeling, coming directly from rallying in another sim (now don't remember which but a mod from either older SimBins, GTR2 or rF2 I think) and clearly felt the difference.
The description of slipping and corner exit near-wall-miss is surely relevant.

But after my engines really got startet rallying DR2.0 in VR, and not returning to older sims I frankly haven't thought of this!

So now I don't dare to return to my DR2.0, since this info will be present at my frontal lobe all the time like an annoying and distracting buzzing wasp.

So I'd better clear my memory after reading this article in order not to disturb my enjoyment with my present prime rally sim :D
So, still not dared to return to my DR2.0, partly out of embarrassment that I - as a "die hard simmer" for decades - have simply let my body and soul lure me into the gameboy world (apparently??).
Maybe it's because VR partly helps with some of the immersion.

But now I've just resumed my old classic rally habit in a 1966 Alpine A110 1300 (with the 105Hp Gordini engine) @ the 1961 Rallye Critérium des Cévennes event of Peyregrosse-Mandagout. This in rFactor (rF1) with these excellent mods and then on a 4K flat screen, no VR.

The sim feeling at the turn exits is to my experience more authentic than in DR2.0. And this even without using the handbrake.
As in much better. Or at least my immediate impression. It's been 4 days since I've been in DR2.0. When I went the opposite way as described, I was still in my cockpit when I came from the older sim to DR2.0 first time.

And of course the dynamic weight distribution, axle pressure, etc. are also relevant for rally cars.

Last weekend I enjoyed a full 1971 Targa Florio event in AC, this with the beautiful both heavy and 'light' handful of the Bizzarrini 5300 GT as "a blind passenger" in my AC offline race event, amongst the authentic cars and drivers in the event. In AC in this car mode the dynamic weight shift is evident. And the center balance also feels higher than in the DR2.0, despite this extremely low car.
I think I'll try some more dedicated AC rallying with handbrake, just in order to compare the core sim part. This even though AC rallying has been criticized for being completely under the floorboards in the past.

Don't know whether this article and its inputs made me leave DR2.0. Unfortunately, it is probably a bit more difficult for Codemasters to develop a real authentic dynamic weight distribution.
And unfortunately I don't think they would intend to do that.

One might have noticed how a few YT'ers have spoken EA's case, almost ridiculed ordinary simracers with the distancing sign 'die hard simmers' and have spoken the language of the Console Gameboys completely under their skin.

Just sayin'....
 
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I don't understand what is the issue with the physics. The article means to say that some people fears the the physics of this game don't calculate yaw angle of the entire car?, or does it imply that the car rotates as if it where an slot car but with the guide on the center of gravity of the car?.

No matter if it is one way or another, I don't know what people where expecting from this game. It isn't a simulator with hardcore physics, it is a game meant for casual players. And as such of course it is going to have a simplified physics engine and some driving aids hidden under the hood to help make the cars easier to drive.

At the end of the day this is a game made for the casual gamers, made to give almost instant gratification with a learning curve as small as possible. The game is meant to be played mostly on a gamepad with the player laying on a sofa. It has to be easy like the colin mcrae games used to be, that was the key of their sucess.
 
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The people still banging on about "centre-pivot physics" should go read the post by exbagboy on page 1 of this thread, which explains concisely how the incorrect handling feel of DR 2.0 on tarmac can be explained without any appeal to such theories.
 
Sorry, but simulators are not just a game!!!
You pay for $40 - $70.
You pay $500 - $1000 for a video card
You pay $500-$1500 for the steering wheel and pedals
You pay for monitors and virtual helmets...
You pay for the processor, memory, SSD and more...
The simulator is not just a dumb counter strike game!
 
Premium
Sorry, but simulators are not just a game!!!
You pay for $40 - $70.
You pay $500 - $1000 for a video card
You pay $500-$1500 for the steering wheel and pedals
You pay for monitors and virtual helmets...
You pay for the processor, memory, SSD and more...
The simulator is not just a dumb counter strike game!
Grown men pay €5000 for a bicycle, which is just a toy. Or serious sports equipment, or whatever you decide to call it to justify spending that amount of money on it.
 
I hope I'm wrong, but I THINK it's a SHAME that the OP neither watched the video nor saw the Reddit post he's talking about, because both of them prove rear-wheel steering. And instead of going away, the rear end comes out hitting the wall (like rear-wheel steering buses). This shouldn't happen if you're not inducing it artificially like when pulling the handbrake or in out-of-controlled slides.

The rest of the post that say that DR2.0/ EAWRC is fun I agree with. Any new game/sim is welcome I buy it and try it.
 
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No matter if it is one way or another, I don't know what people where expecting from this game. It isn't a simulator with hardcore physics, it is a game meant for casual players. And as such of course it is going to have a simplified physics engine and some driving aids hidden under the hood to help make the cars easier to drive.
The problem is that many people don't accept what the game is. I don't know if it's because of pride, denial, lack of knowledge, a mix of all of this, or something else. Perhaps people invested so much time to become competitive in DR2.0 that this feels like a slap on their face, and become overly defensive.

In general terms, DR2.0 has developed a community of people who play it intensively, but without understanding how it exactly works. I arrived to the party one year late, and still had to create my own FFB setup guide, because there wasn't one. Had to do lots of experiments with car setup, because there weren't any guides explaining how some values in the setup actually worked (they are counter-intuitive). And was amazed when I discovered big flaws on the game while other racers already deep inside its metagame shrugged it off as "yeah, it is what it is".

Rallying is just less popular than circuit racing, therefor knowledge of people about it is also lower, and also the amount of good racing games focused on it is lower. Even less so when talking about sims. All these elements have made for what it is, IMO, a less informed community built around this game, but not less passionate. It's what they have and will defend it to death, spouting nonsense if they have to.

I've been trying to not attack the game nor its players, nobody should feel guilty for playing what they like. I play DOOM and not ArmA, and if somebody wants to mock me for not wanting to play realistic gunfighting games I will just tell them to FOAD :)

But yeah, if members of the community try to shove down my throat that these games are uber realistic and I don't play it because of "lack of skillz"...yeah, that's a big no mate. He's getting either a sound reply, or an ignore. And lately, I've been doing a lot of the latter at this place.

Finally, I think it's up to us to recognize the ad intended baits RD is throwing at us, and stop clicking them. We need to prove with numbers that we don't want this low level of articles at the site. I will try harder in the future :po
 
Sorry, but simulators are not just a game!!!
You pay for $40 - $70.
You pay $500 - $1000 for a video card
You pay $500-$1500 for the steering wheel and pedals
You pay for monitors and virtual helmets...
You pay for the processor, memory, SSD and more...
The simulator is not just a dumb counter strike game!
It is still a computer game though. :thumbsup::)
 

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