EA Sports WRC: Pivot Point Debate Ultimately Does Not Matter

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With the release of EA Sports WRC just around the corner, a debate about its physics has emerged. Do the cars have a single pivot point or not? And does it even matter?

Image credit: EA Sports

Note (October 21st): The article previously stated that the YouTuber who created the physics analysis video had access to the preview build of the game. However, the EA Sports WRC footage in their video is not from that version. The article has been corrected accordingly.

Arguments about the accuracy of physics models in sim racing are probably as old as the genre itself. As a result, it should come as no surprise that even ahead of EA Sports WRC‘s release, a debate has broken out about this very element. Mind you, this is without most sim racers even having gotten their hands on the title, as a preview version was made available only to influencers and media outlets thus far.

EA Sports WRC Physics: Central Pivot Point?​

So, what is the matter with it? Put simply, YouTuber mrelwood games has released a video looking into the physics of DiRT Rally 2.0 and EA Sports WRC. Their video is based on clips from DiRT Rally 2.0 and official gameplay preview clips of EA Sports WRC. Allegedly, EA Sports WRC, just like DiRT Rally 2.0, has cars rotate around a single, central pivot point, instead of their tires actually slipping.


Interestingly, most of the evidence in the video comes from tarmac stages and from third-person view. This is where I have an issue with it: It may look like the pivot point theory is correct from that point of view, but the camera tends to swing around a bit in this view. Could this add to the perceived effect? It is a possibility.

Basically, the theory states that this central pivot point would be a “cheap” way to make the car feel like it is sliding at all times, but not out of control. Numerous comments on YouTube seem to prove mrelwood games right.

Theory Disproven?​

However, voices stating the opposite also started appearing. A Reddit post aims to disprove the theory, stating that if the car would pivot around a central point, the rear wheels should hit a close-by wall when trying to steer away from it. This appears not to be the case in their video clips.

The pivot point theory may explain the “off feeling” they get from DiRT Rally 2.0‘s physics for some. Others argue that there is no evidence to support this. Either way, it does not really matter if you look a the core aspect of EA Sports WRC: It is fun.

Now, the die-hard sim racers may crucify me for this opinion, but in the end, it is all that counts. Would we spend thousands of bucks on sim racing equipment if it was not fun to us? Of course, this definition is always subjective. But the majority of reviewers who have tried EA Sports WRC ahead of release seem to agree that it is immensely enjoyable. Pivot point or not.


Focus On What Is Fun​

The title is still satisfying to play as a sim racer. It may be forgiving here and there, but the driving feel is far from the dreaded “arcade”. However, a number of assists ensure that as many players as possible can enjoy it. This includes those on a controller, as well as beginners and novices.

And while that may not be as hardcore as many people would like, it is enjoyable for a lot of players. Tarmac handling may still not be perfect, but it did feel nice in the preview version. The cars were more agile than in DR2.0, inspired confidence to push, and felt absolutely rapid. That sounds like a recipe for a good time to me.

EA Sports WRC Full Stage List Revealed
Click to expand...

EA Sports WRC Pivot Point Theory: It Does Not Matter​

Whether or not the pivot point theory is correct, this article will not judge. The essential takeaway from it is something that often feels like it is missing for many sim racers: Go and enjoy driving virtual race cars! If you are having fun out there, you likely will not be thinking about physics quirks.

EA Sports WRC launches on November 3rd. The game will be available on PC, Xbox Series X|S, and PlayStation 5.

What is your take on the EA Sports WRC debate? Let us know on Twitter @OverTake_gg or in the comments below!
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About author
Yannik Haustein
Yannik Haustein
Lifelong motorsport enthusiast and sim racing aficionado, walking racing history encyclopedia.

Sim racing editor, streamer and one half of the SimRacing Buddies podcast (warning, German!).

Heel & Toe Gang 4 life :D

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Comments

R
"Now, the die-hard sim racers may crucify me for this opinion, but in the end, it is all that counts. Would we spend thousands of bucks on sim racing equipment if it was not fun to us?"

Well, why would we spend thousands of bucks on sim racing equipment not to get the real experience?

But I agree, if a solid experience is there, even if not fully realistic (and I'm not saying it isn't), let's enjoy it to the fullest. This for sure, should not hide a debate about the physics in a game. As I've already gave my opiniol.about that debate in a previous topic, here is my idea in short :

For reasons I am.not competent to analyze, in these games, cars can be set up to extreme and unrealistic values, and often the base setups create nonsense behaviour.

In the right hands, the cars behave in a natural way. For example, these 2 EA WRC gameplays :

The cars are thrown into the corners and the rear turns slower than the front (no central pivot point). There's some understeer when too late on brakes (like in Dirt Rally) and under acceleration the rear pushes the car.

The same kind of behabiour with RBR, in proper hands, although not on tarmac :
If you can find some old videos of RBR when it came out, you'll see how ridiculous it was in comparison (with no view behind the wheel, just in the center of the cockpit). Any game coming out in that state today would.be bashed immediatly.

If you want to make the cars in most racing games behave irrealistically, being undrivable or overpowered, you can. It's unfortunate but that's the state of simracing. I do think pointing out these flaws is always interesting and doesn't lower the interest of a sim. It is good to know something better can be done and that improvements should be expected in the future.

What is fun though is how DR1 was the messiah of rally sims when it came out and how the series has been systematically bashed one year or two after DR2.0. The competition of the WRC titles? The better tarmac feel of Dirt4? RBR resurrection (which would surely not be that popular now without DR and WRC titles)?
The messiah had to be burnt, the new title, even not out, has to be burnt, although all the previous critics and doubts about EA's intentions were just insane and illogical assumptions ; which may explain why the doubts are now on the physics although previewers are generally positive on them, everyone already knowing that it is a DR2.0 evolution, there is no surprise there.

Simracing is fun, simracing community is ridiculously fun.
 
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S
Surely a relevant input!

At my first DR2.0 driveout in the playpen together with my simrig including handbrake I clearly remember the prominent central pivot point rotation feeling, coming directly from rallying in another sim (now don't remember which but a mod from either older SimBins, GTR2 or rF2 I think) and clearly felt the difference.
The description of slipping and corner exit near-wall-miss is surely relevant.

But after my engines really got startet rallying DR2.0 in VR, and not returning to older sims I frankly haven't thought of this!

So now I don't dare to return to my DR2.0, since this info will be present at my frontal lobe all the time like an annoying and distracting buzzing wasp.

So I'd better clear my memory after reading this article in order not to disturb my enjoyment with my present prime rally sim :D
 
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exbagboy
A car at speed will exhibit a pivot point at it's center of gravity. It will pivot in the back axle at very slow speeds. In my opinion, it is more exaggerated in Dirt Rally 2.0 and Dirt Rally because the center of gravity is too low for most cars. I think this was done to make the games more accessible. Other games, the pivot point is more dynamic because they have more weight transfer. Downforce at high speeds will also affect the pivot points. That video is very misguided and no, they should not create a fixed pivot point to the rear axle.

Here is a professor discussing turning point vehicle dynamics and the slide shows a simplified explanation


I made the Alternate Physics mod using the RFPE plugin for Dirt Rally and with the help of someone smarter than me, I had a chance to look and edit the car files for Dirt Rally (not DR 2.0 but I suspect some of the issues are carried over)
For DR, center of gravity height was around 30 cm for WRC cars, it should be around 40 cm.
Yes, tire slip angles are too high in DR for tarmac (reference angle for front tires are 10 degrees) and the car loses only 10% grip at high slip angles, instead of 20-25%, like the more aggressive tires rally cars use for tarmac.

You can argue that a dusty road will give you a similar less responsive situation and a duller tire curve that only drops 10% but the peak grip will be a lot less than the reference peak of 1.7gs for Dirt Rally (tarmac).
 
jonelsorel
Single pivot point doesn't matter? Funny, RD. Around a week ago you posted an article recommending proper sim hardware in order to best enjoy the game. To me, at least, it matters a lot what I do with my wallet and why, especially when sums over 500 euros are involved. So if this game has simple arcade physics, it's best enjoyed with a simple gamepad. RBR is the last rally game (sim) deserving a wheel in order to grasp its goodness. So yeah, single point does matter to me. It might not matter to you because EA probably paid for this article (just a hunch). No disrespect meant, business is business. The most important thing here is that we openly admit what WRC is, just like we do with F1 as well. Great fun can be had playing NFS 1, still.
 
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eg01st
"Now, the die-hard sim racers may crucify me for this opinion, but in the end, it is all that counts. Would we spend thousands of bucks on sim racing equipment if it was not fun to us?"

What the actual F? I buy Sim Equipment to use it with as realistic software as possible. Just to "have fun", a keyboard and NFS Most Wanted is enough.
 
THK84
No VR = no buy...... because no room for my rig at my triple screen desktop in my kitchen, no 20m optical hdmi/usb to my tv yet, so no VR means no rig for me. Gamepads serve my arcade racers, platforms, etc. just fine. But not for sim shenanigans.

I guess I'm looking forward to that early 2024 steam sale :)
 
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GRaFkiyv
I'll give you some tips on EA WRC physics: compare rallycross driving in DiRT Rally 1 and Project CARS 2.
And you will immediately understand where the sim-cada is and where sim is.
 
jonelsorel
eg01st said:
"Now, the die-hard sim racers may crucify me for this opinion, but in the end, it is all that counts. Would we spend thousands of bucks on sim racing equipment if it was not fun to us?"

What the actual F? I buy Sim Equipment to use it with as realistic software as possible. Just to "have fun", a keyboard and NFS Most Wanted is enough.
Click to expand...

These days you can spot paid articles addressing specific thoughts in the community from a mile away. I understand that the common denominator in IQ has gotten lower with time, but it's gotten really ridiculous. Funny part is that EA owns the 2 greatest licenses in motorsport but chooses to do this with them. Being the biggest game company in the world, they could easily make a sim to remember (like they did with F1 Challenge 99-02) and add driving aids to hit the lowest common denominator, which brings the most revenues.

But now they're trying to normalize the idea that as a casual gamer you have to spend thousands of dollars for sim equipment to play arcade physics. Great bunch.

Edward Bernays would be proud.
 
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T
What is the point of this post? I do not understand. You can't convince us that the pivot point (a cheap way codemasters has been "simulating" physics and vehicle dynamics since CMR1) is of no importance. So why even try? Why even say it? It's like trolling. It's like telling someone who loves dogs, that dogs are stupid and that we don't need them because life is just fine without them.
Sure the game is "playable" without proper simulation of dynamics etc, but it would have been a lot more fun with it. It's simple. What else do you expect us to say?
 
Metla
Premium
This hits good old race department right in the credibility.

Either Overtake are morons, or they think the userbase are morons.

Either way the Overtake content is of such a low standard they should be restricting what gets posted. Assuming this could only come from overtake.
 
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