Show us your Rig / Cockpit

[Niels_at_home]

Proof on concept, the "hydraulic" linked system has clear effect: (don't mind about the spikes, that's Race07 autoblib... i hate it..)

It clearly quite symmetric motion and if does help balancing the car better. The graph is from an overtaking moment so there's no concsious effort of doing this, pure racing.

I don't see what is going on here? Apart from the throttle spikes which the game might do, you use a lot of random throttle while braking which is unrealistic, and I don't see what is going on with the braking?

I'm posting because while hydraulics are the basis of real brakes, they can be simulated fine with a cheap load cell, but not the way CST or Fanatec do it. So if that screenshot is to proof something, I'd like to know what

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

With the F- keys you can disable all sort of driving aids Kennett You can disable autoclutch/blip with "F5"

It is off, the autoblib is hardcoded, as you can see from my telemetry. I was thinking that there is a line in PLR file that i don't know yet..

The screenshot is to proof how linked hydraulics that i have will make brake and throttle to act symmetrically.. For recap, i got cylinders under throttle and brake. They are both linked to airspring and as they are both linked to same spring, when i press throttle, the brake starts to push back and vice versa.

 

[Remco Hitman]

The screenshot is to proof how linked hydraulics that i have will make brake and throttle to act symmetrically.. For recap, i got cylinders under throttle and brake. They are both linked to airspring and as they are both linked to same spring, when i press throttle, the brake starts to push back and vice versa.

That is a terrible idea.

 

[Alex Ball]

Why on earth would you want that? Very weird.

 

[Danny Asbury]

I'm posting because while hydraulics are the basis of real brakes, they can be simulated fine with a cheap load cell, but not the way CST or Fanatec do it. So if that screenshot is to proof something, I'd like to know what

I'd like to know what you mean by this.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I am taking a wild guess that this is not translating between languages very well, I have no idea what you mean or propose here either ??

 

[Chris Butcher]

Some people have way too much money...

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

That is a terrible idea.

I find it easier to dance on the limits with it. Mind you, i can still press both pedal independently, the linkage only exerts about1-2kg of pressure to the other pedal so it's more like a feeling and switch from brake to power is smoother. It eases the trailbraking a lot, and is surprisingly intuitive, i got used to it in few corners. It does sound like a stupid idea but really isn't. It's still in early testing phase but mostly i enjoy the extra pressure it adds to Momos horribly soft pedals.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Awesome setup indeed. Blows my desk away.
One small thing to ask. Haveyou tried putting the sub woofer under your seat?
Works a treat for me.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Blue is liquid, red is rubberbands. Light blue is part liquid, part air, there is airbubble at the top of those cylinders.. Liquid is there to eliminate the pneumatics in the hoses. So it's a hydraulic/pneumatic and my airspring is elevated differently from the picture. When i press both pedals to max, the liquid rises all the way to the airspring cylinder. With one pedal pressed, the air will reach almost to the junction and the rubberbanded cylinder will start to move a bit.

Building cost: under 5 euros... please, point out any flaws you can think of. There was a lot of fiddling with sensitivity curves but i think i found the sweet spot where throttle can be applied while still braking to stabilize the car and the similar movement between the two creates extra smoothness. In the graph the action is in the lo end of both, if it would be at the hi end then it would be disastrous... The first brake is in Imola, at the middle Villeneuve, to stabilize extra courageous overtake, car was at it's limits. There is a compromise but as you very very rarely need to use brake and throttle at max at the same time and i can do it, i think that's a lo price to pay.

This added Momos pressures 3 times from the default, that is the main thing here. Plus this kind of system benefits from pre-defined pre-pressure. Before this, the amount of force to move throttle pedal was very light. There were NO feeling in the first 2-3cm of travel and it maxed in 1,3kg. Now the force is ~0.5kg at start of travel and 4kg in the max (brake values were none - 3.4kg before and after 0.5g - +6kg maxed) Combined pressure with both pedals down goes all the way to 12kg but i think i haven't ever used that in a race (figures not accurate, had to do it with personal scale, it has a lot of error marginals...).

You can build one without the linkage just by giving both cylinders their own counterpart. Every link in the system had to be re-enforced, the pressure was too great.. Well, try adding 12kg of pressure to 5ml cyringes and aquarium air-hoses. While testing different configurations, things were popping out all the time. Luckily, the volume inside the system is about 25ml ( ~15ml of air, rest is water), so not much damage came from that.

 

[Alex Ball]

Quick update, now the shifter is in a box - It'll be getting painted, and hopefully I'll find something nicer to do with the mount bars - but it's OK for now.

The knobs on it control the SLI-Pro, and I'll be adding a few more buttons to the box at some point, too.

The H-Shifter was also moved forward.

http://dorkish.com/albums/Geek/man-cave/2012-01-04/20120104-IMG_2034.jpg
http://dorkish.com/albums/Geek/man-cave/2012-01-04/20120104-IMG_2035.jpg
http://dorkish.com/albums/Geek/man-cave/2012-01-04/20120104-IMG_2036.jpg
http://dorkish.com/albums/Geek/man-cave/2012-01-04/20120104-IMG_2037.jpg

(just links so you're not drowned in photos of my rig)

al

 

[Danny Asbury]

hmm, that actually sounds pretty groovy there, Kennett. I wouldn't mind trying that out, as lately I've been messing around with my braking technique and have been doing a lot of reading, and it seems balancing the car under braking is the key to speed!

 

[Will Currington]

Niels_at_home said: ↑

I'm posting because while hydraulics are the basis of real brakes, they can be simulated fine with a cheap load cell, but not the way CST or Fanatec do it. So if that screenshot is to proof something, I'd like to know what ​

I'd like to know what you mean by this.

Me too, I have the CST pedals and think they do a good job with the 60Kg Load cell. I must admit though just waiting for motopc to finish the hydraulic brake upgrade for the CST's

 

[Rupe Wilson]

With a Rig like that Alex that would be on show in the front room....(proberly the only benefit from living alone) looks great

 

[Alex Ball]

Ha ha, my wife is kind enough to let me use the spare bedroom - but even having a rig as big as it has become is stretching it!

 

[Jim Cole]

....

I am still not convinced that you would want any back pressure on the pedal that you are not using unless you are having issues with not lifting your throttle all the way when you are braking and vice versa. I presume you are driving with left foot braking and using this setup.

I know that there are a lot of folks that like the idea and want to have hydraulic brakes for their race rig so that it feels more like real brakes on a real car, but increased pedal pressure due to the opposing pedal being depressed isn't realistic at all.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

I am still not convinced that you would want any back pressure on the pedal that you are not using unless you are having issues with not lifting your throttle all the way when you are braking and vice versa. I presume you are driving with left foot braking and using this setup.

I know that there are a lot of folks that like the idea and want to have hydraulic brakes for their race rig so that it feels more like real brakes on a real car, but increased pedal pressure due to the opposing pedal being depressed isn't realistic at all.

I had troubles of finding the correct throttle/brake balance at the end of braking and the transfer to back to power.. With this it comes extremely easy, when the balance is just right it's like teetering on that edge. And yes, it's only for left foot braking, i use it all the time.

I know that it's not realistic, that was not the goal. If i had a chance, i would import grip information to pedals and leave body/suspension info to the wheel..

 

[Niels_at_home]

About load cells and how they are used, there are a few things to take into account.

Leverage / soft pedal:
Many pedals have some sort of leverage going on; pressing 5kg on the pedal might cause a 25kg load on the load cell, so the pedal force is very very weak and that makes it harder to brake realistically.

Single Spring use:
But more importantly, a load cell is almost useless when all you use to provide resistance is one spring. That makes it a pure distance 'sensing' device, identical to what a potentiometer would do.

Some of the more popular 'loadcell based pedals' (CST and the Fanatec) seem to have at least some of the above going on.

How to brake depends on the car, but in single seaters you do NOT use throttle while braking, only for blipping between downshifts depending on the car. Also with downforce cars, you start very abruptly with braking, then come off gradually and trailbrake into the corners.

www.h-engineering.nl/pics/braketelem.png

Sadly it is not always that easy because this only works with sims that work well and have the right brake strength. These sims / cars are commonly known as ''I always lock up'' cars because with our pedals it is really hard to brake like this. With proper use of a loadcell, having at least some 50kg pedal force, it becomes much more natural to brake like this..

 

[glight]

I am no expert on this subject however I think the CSP's load cell is setup correctly. I have the sensitivity just so that the throw of the pedal can be used for normal braking (or on a wet track). Then when I want to break hard I have to push past the the throw of the pedal; If I push really hard I can lock up. If I jump on the brakes (oh god please stop! mode) and keep the wheels straight I can get a good feel of "threshold braking".

Now this is on F1 2011 which we know is not a very good sim, but this seems to work well in Forza 4 also.

 

[Will Currington]

About load cells and how they are used, there are a few things to take into account.

Leverage / soft pedal:
Many pedals have some sort of leverage going on; pressing 5kg on the pedal might cause a 25kg load on the load cell, so the pedal force is very very weak and that makes it harder to brake realistically.

Single Spring use:
But more importantly, a load cell is almost useless when all you use to provide resistance is one spring. That makes it a pure distance 'sensing' device, identical to what a potentiometer would do.

Some of the more popular 'loadcell based pedals' (CST and the Fanatec) seem to have at least some of the above going on.

How to brake depends on the car, but in single seaters you do NOT use throttle while braking, only for blipping between downshifts depending on the car. Also with downforce cars, you start very abruptly with braking, then come off gradually and trailbrake into the corners.

www.h-engineering.nl/pics/braketelem.png

Sadly it is not always that easy because this only works with sims that work well and have the right brake strength. These sims / cars are commonly known as ''I always lock up'' cars because with our pedals it is really hard to brake like this. With proper use of a loadcell, having at least some 50kg pedal force, it becomes much more natural to brake like this..

I have the stiff brake upgrade & 60Kg load cell which adds a hard rubber dampener to the equation, pedal travel itself is quite short, but I have a good range of pressure with the rubber dampener. As I said tho before can't wait for motopc to finish there hydraulic brake kit as I think that will be the icing on the cake. Apparently very realistic brake pressure.