What if: DD blind test on expo

[FrejkiChodak]

Here's a hypothetical (that I dont think will happen)

On the next sim racing expo you see an X amount of sim racing rigs. They are all the same, except for the wheel bases. The DD wheel bases together with whatever quick release systems they have are hidden in a box that is as big as the biggest DD base. Just a generic wheel sticks out - I guess this already eliminates Logitech and Thrustmaster’s DD bases, they can’t do that.

Have them all run at 8Nm, or perhaps slightly higher for those that can, to really up the shame for if the snobs don’t guess which is which correctly. Have Assetto Corsa or iRacing (the choice will start a war anyhow) set up and ready to go and have the people dig in.

We want as many bases as possible there; Logitech PRO Racing Wheel, Thrustmaster T818, Fanatec CSL DD, DD1/2, Simucube 2, VRS Direct Force Pro, Simagic Alpha, Moza R9, Cammus DDWB21, OSW. Can we even add a Fanatec CSW? It runs at 8Nm as well. It would be interesting to see if it sticks out as a non-DD, but a mere plebeian belt-driven wheel.

All the people fill out surveys of how well they like each wheel base; The Tubers/Twitchers get to make their silly content taking guesses and potentially embarrassing themselves.

Wouldn't that be something? What would happen? What would the survey's results come out with?

 

[Clover11]

I don't think this is viable. Way too many variables. You can tune many things on each wheel. I adjust mine by game, car, and sometimes even edit those profiles for different tracks sometimes. How I like it is not going to be how everyone else likes it. There are many profiles that have been shared on some of these platforms. Whose do you use? The manufactures don't really have profiles so I can't imagine them creating a bunch for a blind compare where they don't know what people will be wanting from their flexible systems. Also, why would more powerful wheels like to limit themselves to 8mn if they can do 25?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

to really up the shame for if the snobs don’t guess which is which correctly.

Really, "snobs"?
Good DD wheels allow so many different settings besides just gain that the difference driving with the same wheelbase can be night and day depending on profile.
And 'feeling' is just one, while important, but not the only aspect of DD wheels, you need to also look at reliability, provided support, track record, and software. Most of the times these are the determining factors, not that small difference in max torque, slew rate, or natural damping.

 

[gearloos]

Snobs? Seriously LOL
Just because someone buys something a little higher end doesn’t make them a “snob”.
There is a place for everyone and every budget here. No need to go “there”!

 

[FrejkiChodak]

Snobs? Seriously LOL
Just because someone buys something a little higher end doesn’t make them a “snob”.
There is a place for everyone and every budget here. No need to go “there”!

if you'd act like it matters and then couldn't recognize it accordingly, then yeah..

 

[stigs2cousin]

Where do you take the confidence that DD owners are not capable of feeling the difference?

You can very distinctively feel the difference between different steering wheels on the same wheelbase, the difference between my first T300 and my "snob wheelbase" I use now is night and day. It´s not only the difference in power but espacially the "livelyness" of the FFB and the detail.
The "snob wheelbase" lets you feel 1click difference in the front wing when exiting the pits just by the wheight of the steering. I´m curious if a belt driven wheelbase can do the same?

MFG Carsten

 

[FrejkiChodak]

oh wow it seems likely only one word of my post is getting all of the attention.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

You own a computer and have access to the internet? You must be such a snob

 

[stigs2cousin]

oh wow it seems likely only one word of my post is getting all of the attention.

Isn´t it funny how one little insult can deteriorate the conversation and make everybody raise shields?

 

[RasmusP]

Would be a fun experiment but I'm not sure if it would be of much use.

In my opinion there are 3 things when buying a wheelbase:
1. Strength
2. Software
3. "Ecosystem"
(4. Console/game compatibility)

I had a csl DD for almost 2 weeks next to my csw 2.5 and sent it back.
The way I liked it, the only differences were the passive vs active cooling, the footprint and the "natural inertia" setting, which I absolutely love and is a game changer for me, but the csw 2.5 doesn't have it.

But spending 500€ to not hear some whooshing when occasionally not wearing my headphones and the inertia setting?
I might have done it but I had massive play and rattle from the QR1 Lite on the DD shaft and googling showed a lot of similar cases.

But other than that, if a wheel has at least 8 Nm, I'd be fine.
With identical settings, I guess barely anyone would feel a difference!

But simucube has a brilliant softlock feature and a wireless connection, moza has an intelligent safety settings that detects you letting go of the wheel.
Fanatec has no softlock feature, TM & Logitech don't have the natural inertia setting.

TM has nice wheels, logitech brilliant compatibility and the trueforce feature.

I would definitely feel a difference between a simucube with a nice softlock and dialled in inertia vs a TM or Logitech DD without both.

But if you'd dial them all in to feel identical, I highly doubt anyone would feel the difference in the motors and the motor controlling software.

 

[stigs2cousin]

But if you'd dial them all in to feel identical, I highly doubt anyone would feel the difference in the motors and the motor controlling software.

What am I missing here?

I doubt someone could feel the difference between a 1.5l TFSI and a GTI Performance when both where tuned to the same Power and Torque curve??

So yes, if you castrate the more powerfull and communicative devices there would be no sense in spending the money
But who would do that ??

MFG Carsten

 

[RasmusP]

What am I missing here?

I doubt someone could feel the difference between a 1.5l TFSI and a GTI Performance when both where tuned to the same Power and Torque curve??

So yes, if you castrate the more powerfull and communicative devices there would be no sense in spending the money
But who would do that ??

MFG Carsten

I just went along with the experiment plans. Not saying that it would be very useful.

But do you run full Nm? I would personally limit any DD to around 12 Nm with a 30cm wheel.
The peaks of my csw 2.5 are already plenty enough for me, a little bit more would be nice but not more than 50% on top.

The experiment would be about how quickly they respond, how smooth they are etc.

Like having two engines with the same torque and power graph but one has less vibrations at idle, the other has a way faster throttle response, the third engine has higher engine brake, one produces a more awesome sound. That kind of comparison.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Actually yes, I run my SC2 unrestricted in the Simucube software and adjust in AC.
I don´t seem to run into clipping so it´s not the full 25nm at the wheel

At the same time my HSV software shows peaks of brakeforce inthe 80kg range, so it´s
"a bit physical" to drive the Formula Agile around a bumpy track like Imola
( aided by a tactile feedback setup of course)

 

[blekenbleu]

Wouldn't that be something?

At least with some wheelbases, grasping at the hub to twist, instead of at the rim, makes any cogging or other lack of smoothness much more obvious. Beyond that, depending on exactly how wheelbases' peak torque are limited, some will be more responsive and provide more detail, particularly noticeable if the selected wheel has appreciable inertia.