Car models for Assetto Corsa

[BanjoMaster]

Hi Aristolesis
I’m keen to teach myself how to build cars for sims. If I was to attempt to jump straight in at the deep end and aim for AC, can you give any initial pointers to go on at the minute? I’m assuming that the best program to work with would be 3DS Max? Can you give an idea of poly counts for each main part of one of your typical cars? How many for the body, how many for the interior, how many for wheels, etc.
Yes, I am an absolute bone-stock beginner, but I have ambition :-D
Many thanks,
Graham

 

[XN-Sigma]

Also I may add that not all Forza models are actually that accurate, the Autovista ones may be but some of the ingame ones are not, I've had many discussions with other modelers where they say some Forza models don't look well proportioned, namely the early Forza 2 models, so I'd advise to not use someone else's model as a definitive reference because it may have errors, as a "general" reference it may be ok, as in, to see those little details that you just can't find from photos, like, underbody or little dashboard buttoms. Using them as a general reference for things you don't know about the car may be ok, however, getting an already made 3D model and simply retopo it would be the same as tracing someone else's artwork, and this is widely known as wrong.
Though one would argue that mods are free so "anything goes", this is something that I'm not sure how to feel about, for example, I don't make conversions from other games, but I'll be honest, I'll play with converted cars if they are available for the game I'm playing. As usual with anything, things get grayish depending on the angle you look at it.

Edit: Posted the reply while still writing it. Damnit...

 

[Shadow Explorer]

What you said XN-Sigma is totally correct.
Since they also seem to scan miniatures
Some of the errors found in forza cars could only be replicated
by tracing the wrong source...
Of course the modelers worked there, are not to be blamed,they just did their job.
It's the studios approach that really makes me feel bad about it.

One of the reason I really like GT5 and all the other companies that follow the same route.
GT models are also not dead accurate by cad replication standards
Since they are camera matched mostly I believe.
But I can see that the guys there, actually made a huge effort. I really appreciate that!
Nothing is perfect after all,we all just try to get as close as possible.


Cad data from the car manufacturer would be great to have.its not only about the shape. there are other informative layers in a cad model. actual structure might help the physics as well.You will be able to see details like suspension system,so as a blueprint it works nicely.

Still I would never trace it for a personal project.
Well its awkward to have manufacturer cad data for a personal project anyway....

 

[XN-Sigma]

What you said XN-Sigma is totally correct.
Since they also seem to scan miniatures
Some of the errors found in forza cars could only be replicated
by tracing the wrong source...
Of course the modelers worked there, are not to be blamed,they just did their job.
It's the studios approach that really makes me feel bad about it.

Yeah, I imagine in a game development environment you have to deal with quick deadlines, so you end up compromising accuracy for speed modeling.

One of the reason I really like GT5 and all the other companies that follow the same route.
GT models are also not dead accurate by cad replication standards
Since they are camera matched mostly I believe.
But I can see that the guys there, actually made a huge effort. I really appreciate that!
Nothing is perfect after all,we all just try to get as close as possible.

I gotta agree with this, GT5 cars are amazing, you can tell there was a great amount of effort put in them.

Cad data from the car manufacturer would be great to have.its not only about the shape. there are other informative layers in a cad model. actual structure might help the physics as well.You will be able to see details like suspension system,so as a blueprint it works nicely.

Still I would never trace it for a personal project.
Well its awkward to have manufacturer cad data for a personal project anyway....

As a matter of fact, as far as all I've read about AC up to now from the devs, it seems if you have accurate data from the car, like the actual numbers for suspension, gear ratios, etc, and you put them in the game, the engine should accurately make the car behave just like real life. The only problem is that this kind of info isn't really that easy to find.

 

[Shadow Explorer]

As a matter of fact, as far as all I've read about AC up to now from the devs, it seems if you have accurate data from the car, like the actual numbers for suspension, gear ratios, etc, and you put them in the game, the engine should accurately make the car behave just like real life. The only problem is that this kind of info isn't really that easy to find.

Unless you have really good ends,it might range from hard to impossible for a modding team to acquire such kind of data.

 

[Lee Knight]

As a matter of fact, as far as all I've read about AC up to now from the devs, it seems if you have accurate data from the car, like the actual numbers for suspension, gear ratios, etc, and you put them in the game, the engine should accurately make the car behave just like real life.

Yes, BUT, what happens if you wish/choose to model something with more or less than 4 wheels?
2 forward & 1 back wheel or the reverse are easier to rig as they're symmetrical, but sidecars....
The possibility to finally have a sidecar that handles like a sidecar is what has ME interested & looking for answers....
To do this in a Gmotor2 based sim accurately means that the sim CTD's OR compromising the physics of the vehicle as one wheel can't be 'turned off' whether it's steering OR powering the vehicle....
Then there's things like trucks & Army vehicles that have 6 & 8 wheels....
Wouldn't it be interesting to have a Scorpion or something similar to try occasionally off road?

The only problem is that this kind of info isn't really that easy to find.

'Hard' data such as gear ratio's, wheel track & suspension angles can be easy to find....
Center of Gravity, Roll Height & even spring rates are some of the ones Ive found hard to track down....

 

[StefanoCasillo]

Lee,

I think you should understand that a sidecar is much more than a "vehicle with 3 wheels".. the driver and passenger movements are as essential as the vehicle itself.

I think it's pointless to expect a race car simulator to allow you to simulate army trucks, offroads, sidecars, motorbikes, boats or airplanes. this kind of behavior just leads to frustration and bad taste in your mouth. dont' be "that" guy.. be smarter.

 

[XN-Sigma]

Yeah I wonder about the amount of wheels too, in certain game engines like Unreal or CryEngine you can make vehicles with as many wheels as you want and the engine will take care of the physics, but I dunno about AC's engine since it's a much more specialized one.

But it would be cool to have physically realistic versions of these cars:

 

[Lee Knight]

In relation to rF1, Morgans are the 'easy' one, you still use both rear wheels but have them at half the thickness & run them with a 'locked differential' right beside each other.....

Thats what we did for the '34SS & then I found out later that SRW did the same with the 2012 Moggy....
I believe the Reliant mod did something similar with the steering...
As for the Elf above I'd have no idea but I suspect 1 set of wheels were only there for appearance sakes...

My fascination with sidecars is the way in which they corner....
It's mostly about the torquesteering via the drive-line & the rear contact patch, in fact it's not all about the steering nor the weight bias & with modern racing sidecars & the amount of down force they generate they barely need a passenger at speed- check out clips of the IOM & the passengers barely stick their heads up through most sweepers & high-speed corners!
For a chair on the left, if you wish to turn left you need to power the bike around the chair & to turn right you need to do almost the reverse to bring the chair around the bike.
To do this at a decent speed requires quite a bit of finesse between steering, throttle &/or brakes....
Ive also thought a bit about the weight-shift problem & have considered possibly giving the drivers head weight & then making it non-visible & a more central location to the vehicle....
But THAT experiment would only come after getting the wheels to work properly....

BTW Thank you for answering Kunos....

Lee,
I think you should understand that a sidecar is much more than a "vehicle with 3 wheels".. the driver and passenger movements are as essential as the vehicle itself.

My father used to race sidecars & rode a street bike for years with one plus Ive also ridden them a few times, both road & race plus an off-road Wasp650...
It was scary at times but I survived without crashing & learnt a lot along the way...
Better than a few of his mates he taught anyway! LoL!

I think it's pointless to expect a race car simulator to allow you to simulate army trucks, offroads, sidecars, motorbikes, boats or airplanes.

I realize that there's limitations that even the most well thought out driving/racing sims can simulate & can see that boats/Skidoo's & especially planes would be a dead-end in such an 'environment' & 'proper' motorcycles already have a dedicated sim with GPBikes (& then again there's plenty of aircraft sims too), but then there's some vehicles that offer opportunities for experimentation...

this kind of behavior just leads to frustration and bad taste in your mouth. dont' be "that" guy.. be smarter.

I can understand that sentiment, I can....
But if a person is of an inquiring mind that enjoys experimenting, then (I find) the failures can often lead to new a understanding & possibly something which is completely different which can be of value to others...
Sometimes just knowing why something wouldn't work can be of value too...
I guess in regards to mods it's down to what is & isn't released so that 'the water isn't muddied'....
After all, there's no point in releasing a mod that's


Thank you again for your time to interact with the community Kunos, it's great to see a sim builder doing so & a true breath of fresh air as well as an inspiration!
(Sorry about the long ramble too everyone)

 

[Lee Knight]

P.S. I guess it's mainly about seeing just how 'mod-able' a mod-friendly sim can be modded

 

[XN-Sigma]

P.S. I guess it's mainly about seeing just how 'mod-able' a mod-friendly sim can be modded

haha True. Most problems can be solved with a good amount of creativity.

 

[Jamie Shorting]

I love frankensteining cars in rF2. Can't wait to do it in AC as well.

 

[Shadow Explorer]

Im curious about Tyrell, One day I will model that one
I love it for being completely crazy..

 

[Dinca Andrei]

That.."Moto-car" is insane...ugly looking and interesting in the same time...its something from Area 51....some sort of an experiment that gone bad.

 

[Lee Knight]

That.."Moto-car" is insane...ugly looking and interesting in the same time...its something from Area 51....some sort of an experiment that gone bad.

Gee, I thought it was a good looking ugly....like a Boxer dog & Im pretty sure it's available from Morgan, NOT area 51....
http://www.morgan3wheeler.co.uk/home.html
But I DO like the alian-esk connotations...LoL
I definitely think it should be in AC though!
Im currently trying to contact a bloke about using/buying a 3D model of it off him....

 

[Dinca Andrei]

Every car will be fun to drive when AC is released.And it will look great but you got to nail the behaving of this car on track.

 

[orgasmdealer420]

hello i love drifting, love you all

 

[Shadow Explorer]

That's quite a necroblast!!!