• "Auto racing began 5 minutes after the second car was built." - Henry Ford
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Dear Guest. Follow RaceDepartment on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Twitch, Steam and YouTube.

Yes, another PC upgrade post!

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by William Wester, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. William Wester

    William Wester
    Premium

    Messages:
    1,209
    Ratings:
    +475
    I think it's time for me to refresh by PC, built in early 2013. Basically, I've recently added a GTX 1080 Ti and I can quickly see this beast is NOT my bottleneck :D. I would like to bring some of the other pieces up-to-date to allow for running triple-screens with all the eye candy at a higher refresh rate.

    Currently:
    * Asus P8Z77-V LK Intel Z77 DDR3 LGA 1155
    * Thermaltake 850W modular power supply
    * Intel i7-3770 Quad-Core 3.4 GHz LGA 1155 (3rd generation)
    Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600MHz
    EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 GAMING (was EVGA SuperClocked GTX 1070 8GB GDDR5)
    Samsung 850 PRO - 256GB SSD (boot drive)
    LG 34" UltraWide @ 3440x1440
    (3) ASUS 24" @ 5900x1080 (may be replacing these at some point - 27", higher refresh)
    etc...

    Replacement components I'm considering:
    * MSI Pro Series Z270 DDR4 Z270 SLI PLUS (ATX)
    or
    ASUS ROG STRIX Z270E GAMING LGA1151 (ATX) + $45
    * Intel i7-7700K Quad-Core 4.2 GHz LGA 1151 (7th generation)
    * CRYORIG H7 CPU Tower Cooler
    * Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 3000MHz CAS15

    Any other brands/models I should consider? Note, I can do the above for approx. $670 (w/MSI MB), would like to keep within this range give or take. My main area of uncertainty is the motherboard - I may over-clock a little, possibly 4.6 - 4.8 GHz.

    Thanks
     
  2. Wicked

    Wicked
    Horsepower! My kingdom for some horsepower! Premium

    Messages:
    156
    Ratings:
    +116
    Any particular reason you chose not to pick up the new Coffeelake i7 8700K? It's a 6 core, gets pretty high frequency. Slight IPC increase but for 20$ more MSRP you get 2 more cores , 4 more threads.

    Z370 would likely be more expensive as well depending on where you are from ,but I reckon it's worth it especially seeing as you will most likely keep the system for a while.
     
  3. William Wester

    William Wester
    Premium

    Messages:
    1,209
    Ratings:
    +475
    Well, I usually build with components a step down from the top for bang-for-the-buck reasons but as you point out the CoffeeLake isn't that much more. I see that the 8700k may be hard to find and power consumption and heat are a couple negatives.
    With that said, the non-K version seems to be readily available for a little less than the 7700k. Of course I would have to be happy with the stock performance. I'm not a big over-clocker anyway, sometimes it's more trouble than it's worth. So the question would be, how would the 8700 compare to the 7770k for single core and multi-core gaming (some of my older racing sims only use a single core).
     
  4. Kari Kranck

    Kari Kranck
    Premium

    Messages:
    48
    Ratings:
    +17
    7700K TDP 95W is same with 8700K, heat / power should not be a problem.
    8700 TDP is 65W.

    8700 single thread performance is same what 7700K. 8700K is about 10% higher.
     
  5. Jeremy Ford

    Jeremy Ford

    Messages:
    161
    Ratings:
    +36
    CPU bottlenecking in gaming is mainly noticeable at low resolutions so your current CPU may not be much of bottleneck with triples or at your ultrawide resolution. There's plenty of online benchmarks which show how bottlenecking scales at different resolutions with the latest and older gen gpu's.

    I'm in similar situation, I'm rocking a I7-4770k with a 1080 Ti. Gaming performance is excellent and it's just a perfectly stable and good system, but I'm trying to find an excuse to upgrade to a new CPU too. Quite honesty I don't think I'll get much in perceivable benefit. But I'm very interested in those new 6 core Intel processors. If I we're in your shoes, I would not invest in into another 4 core CPU when you already have one, it makes no sense if you're looking for a new build to last you a few years.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Andy Jackson

    Andy Jackson
    I am the new Colin Mcrae I am Premium

    Messages:
    6,599
    Ratings:
    +3,053
    I honestly don't think it's worth upgrading yet. Your system is good enough. Wait another couple of years and get a better boost in technology etc. Save your cash or maybe get a VR headset. That's my advice.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  7. RasmusP

    RasmusP
    AC Stuff and G27 help Staff Premium

    Messages:
    2,102
    Ratings:
    +784
    Hey man,
    I'm currently not really up-to-date with CPU's, MoBo's etc.
    Is your 3770 the k version and overclockable?
    If not, you have my unimportant "green light" for a new one, if you have the k version, you don't have :p

    In my opinion you don't need a new one. The "speed per MHz" is not that higher with newer CPUs, which is a shame. Also most games don't really use the full potential of the CPU but that's another topic.

    If you want to know how many fps your current CPU can really squeeze out of your games, lower the resolution to the lowest possible (don't go below 800x600 or you may get a black screen...).
    You will then definitely not be bottlenecked by your 1080 ti!

    I have an old 2600k, which I bought a new cooler for last year and now running at 4.4 GHz.
    Also I tested faster RAM, did a few Benchmarks and annoyed my friends for a few weeks to get some statistic for me.
    Maybe it helps you a bit :)

    Cinebech: (CPU, cpu GHz and RAM MHz)

    I5 3570k:
    4.2, 1333: 501
    4.4, 1866: 563
    I5 4570k:
    4.2, 1333: 562
    4.4, 1333:
    4.4, 1600: 602
    4.5, 1600: 612

    I7 2600k:
    4.2, 1333: 533
    4.2, 1600: 553
    4.4, 1333: 572
    4.4, 1600: 582
    4.4, 1600 + HT: 754

    I5 2500k:
    4.5, 2133: 557
     
  8. Martin Fiala

    Martin Fiala
    Premium

    Messages:
    1,744
    Ratings:
    +1,877
    Gotta agree with Andy and Rasmus, I don't really see a point in upgrading your config either.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. William Wester

    William Wester
    Premium

    Messages:
    1,209
    Ratings:
    +475
    No, I don't have the "k" version. I guess the biggest increase would be the 8700k even at stock speeds. The extra two cores would help a lot for the racing sims that take advantage.

    I was comparing benchmarks (UserBenchmark.com), and some reading up on the Coffee Lake processors, it's getting very good recommendations for "gaming".

    SC: single core QC: quad core MC: multi-core

    upload_2017-10-11_13-42-2.png
     
  10. MegamanAT

    MegamanAT
    Premium

    Messages:
    98
    Ratings:
    +52
    i7-3770 will definitely bottleneck a 1080 TI. You could get a 6700k or 7700k and one of the 2 remaining Z170 mainboards with DDR3 RAM and reuse or RAM. Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 DDR3 or Asus Z170M-E D3. DDR4 or fast RAM in general does not have the same impact on Intel CPUs as it has on Ryzen. Also many people will upgrade to CoffeeLake soon and the market for used 6700k and 7700k should be nice...
     
  11. RasmusP

    RasmusP
    AC Stuff and G27 help Staff Premium

    Messages:
    2,102
    Ratings:
    +784
    So you have the non k version. Then yes, your CPU definitely bottlenecks the 1080 ti!
    What I just wanted to say: if you overclock the older generations to the maximum, which is very easy to do btw, then you simply don't need a newer one.
    But since you can't do that you will get a huge performance boost, especially because the newer ones have this very high turbo clock, which is kind of an "automatic overclocking"!

    As you can see from my statistics faster ram and hyperthreading have a huge performance boost.
    I did some experimenting with games and in most modern ones the ram and hyperthreading did the same as you can see for cinebench.

    So 2 extra cores (4 extra threads) will definitely pay off to have!
    Same for DDR4!

    My recommendation though is to buy a "k" this time so in another 4 years you can just overclock it to the limit and don't have to buy something new again :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. RasmusP

    RasmusP
    AC Stuff and G27 help Staff Premium

    Messages:
    2,102
    Ratings:
    +784
    Definitely an interesting link, I'm not that sure if it really shows the real thing though.
    Benchmarks with 3 GHz CPU and without hyperthreading: yes, that shows the ram difference but with my own tests I found that the more the CPU gets "unleashed", the bigger the difference becomes between 1600 MHz, 1333 and 1066. (could only test my own ram).
    It was up to 15 fps.

    Then for the gaming tests: the fps show a difference with the different graphics cards which clearly shows that the gpu was the limiting factor.
    As long as the CPU isn't the bottleneck, the ram difference won't really show.

    But I agree. You buy the CPU, you buy the gpu. Then you look for a nice Mainboard that fits your needs and then you have a look which ram you buy.
    It's not making a huge difference, but I trust my own experience there. If you want I can do a video about it though. :)
    I never trust others about these things too when they tell wonders about their own experiences :p
     
  13. MegamanAT

    MegamanAT
    Premium

    Messages:
    98
    Ratings:
    +52
    I have read many similar test where there was only 1-3% difference between DDR3 and DDR4 having the same clock speeds. But yes, in this case you are right. I did not see that he has only 1600 MHz DDR3. That will of course make a difference in comparison to DDR4 2400 MHz+. But I already had 32GB of fast DDR3 2400 I came to the conclusion, that it is not worth to spend another 300€ for 2% performance.

    But in this Situation I would definitely buy a Z370 board, DDR4 2400 MHz+ RAM and a 6-core coffelake. Even the i5 8400 is euqual to an 7700k and you can get one for 190€.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. RasmusP

    RasmusP
    AC Stuff and G27 help Staff Premium

    Messages:
    2,102
    Ratings:
    +784
    Absolutely agreed!

    And I forgot to mention something... Sorry.
    What I really wanted to say with my "go for DDR4" :
    Go for really really high DDR4 if you have the money for it! Not 1800 to 2133 but more like 3200 and higher :geek::p
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. William Wester

    William Wester
    Premium

    Messages:
    1,209
    Ratings:
    +475
    Thanks for the input. Yes, even if I don't overclock immediately (if no benefit for current sims) I'll go with the 8700K for future proofing. Now if I could find an 8700K, and without a markup based on low availability. Intel's recommended price is $359.00 - $370.00, but I'm seeing it for more. I'm not in a rush though.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. MegamanAT

    MegamanAT
    Premium

    Messages:
    98
    Ratings:
    +52
    Just wait some weeks. Price will once intel can deliver.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. RasmusP

    RasmusP
    AC Stuff and G27 help Staff Premium

    Messages:
    2,102
    Ratings:
    +784
    Just to complete my statements about the higher turbo = "auto oc":
    INTEL-LINK
    My I7 2600k: standard clock = 3.4 GHz, turbo speeds:
    1=3.8, 2=3.7, 3=3.6, 4=3.5 GHz.
    Manually OCed by me to 4x 4.4 GHz. (sc = +0.6, mc = +0.9. 4x0.9 = +3.6 GHz total)

    Your I7 3770: standard clock = 3.4 GHz, turbo speeds:
    1=3.9, 2=3.9, 3=3.8, 4=3.7 GHz.
    No real OC possible. Loss to my OCed: 4x4.4 - 4x3.7 = 2.8 GHz total. Single core only 0.5 GHz.

    Now the I7 8700k: LINK
    standard clock = 3.7 GHz, turbo speeds:
    1=4.7, 2=4.6, 3=4.5, 4=4.4, 5=4.4, 6=4.3 GHz

    Plus compared to 2600 (non k):
    SC = +0.9, MC = 4x +0.9 GHz ; 6x 4.3 - 4x3.5 = +11.8 GHz

    Plus compared to 2600k:
    SC = +0.3, MC = 4x +0.0 GHz ; 6x 4.3 - 4x4.4 = +8.2 GHz

    Plus compared to 3770:
    SC = +0.8, MC = 4x +0.7 GHz ; 6x 4.3 - 4x3.7 = +11 GHz

    Of course that doesn't mirror the real difference while gaming etc. but it's nice to have a few numbers to know the money will be well spent :)

    While my OC gives me +3.6 GHz total and +0.6 GHz on Single core, the i7 8700k would give me a total plus of 8.2 GHz (0.0 for 4 cores) but only 0.3 GHz on single core.
    For you it will be a total plus of 11 GHz (2.8 for 4 cores) and 0.8 GHz on single core! :geek::confused:

    Addition: I read a few articles and it seems that the 8700k is easily overclockable to at least 4.7 GHz (over 5 GHz possible but not usable for us consumers). That would mean another plus of 6x 0.4 GHz (+2.4) and +13.4 GHz in total for you :roflmao:
    To have something to compare again:
    When looking at the total GHz of your 3770 it results in 4x 3.7 GHz = 14.8 GHz.
    That's a plus of 90% !!

    And then you shouldn't forget the memory bandwidth of 39.74 GB/s to your 25.6 GB/s and the DDR4 with maybe doubled frequency.

    I think it's safe to say that you will easily have your overall CPU power doubled! :cool: (cinebench results show even tripled but that's not gaming performance)

    Man, this post got a bit out of hand. Not sure if I did this for you or just for my self :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  18. MegamanAT

    MegamanAT
    Premium

    Messages:
    98
    Ratings:
    +52
    every skylake or kabylake i7-k I have seen will run easily and without any problem with turbo speed on all cores. I have 2x 6700k and both are running at 4,5 GHz all the time. And you don't even need special cooling for that. I am using a 23€ Arctic Freezer 23 for one and a Noctua NH DH15 for the other. And I am sure I can hit 4,8 GHz with the Noctua, I just did not try so far. Don't need more performance right now ;-)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. William Wester

    William Wester
    Premium

    Messages:
    1,209
    Ratings:
    +475
    Good assessment... now I have to find the best bang-for-the-buck Z370 motherboard. This new build should be good for awhile - a while to me is 4-5 years, to my wife it should be 10-15 years :confused: