Worried about the future of rF2

[Richard Eriksson]

As the topic suggests...

As a long time ISI supporter and follower, i am now feeling a bit worried for the future.The number of new users coming in to rFactor2 seems to be dwindling.

Also there is a long time between the new official content. And even when there is official content released, it seems to fail to gather an interest (Civics in December) amongst the yet unitiated.

Also, the mod community seems a lot more reluctant than for rF1, with very few members adding content.This is even more worrying as it was the foundation of rF1 and a big selling point for bringing more people to the franchise (race anything you like).

ISI now also faces a stiff competition as the "sim" genre has become "hot" again with more titles in the works, that seem to gather a LOT more interest: AC, pCars etc.

The old veterans like myself are finding ourselves drawn to the likes of GSC, and newcomers are moving towards AC and probably DTM Experience.


I start this topic to see if someone shares my worries, and also to discuss if something can be done to once again bring more interest to rF2?


My personal idea is to go for Steam greenlighting (i actually REALLY like Steam as a platform), to gain exposure and also simplify the purchasing as well as updating.
Connecting it to Workshop makes modding interesting again, like what AC proposes.


I want rF2 to succeed, it is by far the most comprehensive take on simulating the actual race mechanics and based on that it should be the goto title for the serious sim-user, but right now i fear it is not.


Discussions on graphics i will however discard personally, as a) rF2 is pretty enough and b) the prettiest of settings in something like pCars is inaccesible to 95% of users.


So, what is your view of the status of the product?



Points of improvement needed going forward as identified in this thread so far:

* Better GUI (incoming)
* Steam integration and release
* Possible new distribution method that would automate updates and sync, if not steam
* New official content
* More transparent development
* Shorter build intervals
* More efficient code and optimization of codebase
* A possibility to "lock down" the core functionality, to deliver something considered stable and final
* New updater that allows automatic updating of content as well, including adding NEW
content

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

As for me, the price tag is the main reason I will not dive-in. For me the game is fine, I like driving it and all.

But paying 80$ when I'm not even sure I can race on a regular basis (that is at least once a week on a reasonable hour) is just plain waste for me. And paying 50$ then 12$ each years, well that's not worth the buy pass 2½ years. If the game would be 50$ for life, then fine, I would not mind.

For those who say the price has justification in the content that will eventually come about, well not for me. The time I pass on it will make it worth it, not the content, not the features.
And for now, I have yet to find places to race on a regular basis with a race time that won't make me get-up at 6AM or going to sleep pass Midnight; meaning I would not even be profitable in terms of fun/price ratio.

So I think that if the game had a more reasonable price tag, lot more people would be more than happy to make the jump into rF2.

That was my 2 cents

You can purchase the normal license as I did and if you like it upgrade to lifetime later on.
You only pay the diffrence. I would give it a shot for 45$

 

[yusupov]

you might not be alive in a year. or you might not have any hands. i dont see why people let stuff like that concern them lol

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

So I think that if the game had a more reasonable price tag, lot more people would be more than happy to make the jump into rF2.

That was my 2 cents

Maybe. But iRacing has about 5 times higher price tag if you buy equal amount of content as is released for rF2, plus monthly additional costs. And people still play it.

 

[yusupov]

yes, when i got it i actually thought the price was recurring; still didnt really bother me (granted, i had somewhat low expectations & figured itd wear off within a year for me). but its only $12 a year...you skip 3 big macs over 1 year & youre paid up...only cost is you went hungry for a few hours and temporarily lost a pound or two. pretty interesting to me where people draw lines.

 

[vee10]

801 Hotlaps tells me this is worth every penny. Nothing else like it for FFB it makes me smile every time I nail a lap. FR3.5 2014 and VLM Sebring is all you need. I would pay the price for those on their own. And its only getting better, 64 Bit etc. Like Yusupov say's you could wake up tomorrow with no hands (hopefully that doesnt happen) why deny your hands the chance to experience RF2.

 

[William Néron]

Maybe. But iRacing has about 5 times higher price tag if you buy equal amount of content as is released for rF2, plus monthly additional costs. And people still play it.

That's why I don't play iRacing

 

[David O'Reilly]

Xbox is £40.00 every 12 months Plus the need to buy the newest game every year. So say £100.0 pa. RF2 is £60.00 for life.
Its incredibly cheap for what it is.
AWESOME

 

[Dino Paolini]

I would even say it's priced on the bare minimum for ISI to not go out of business actually.

 

[William Néron]

All in all my point was that $80 USD(about $90 CAD) -for a game I won't have the oportunity to play- is a lot.

It is hard to find leagues with reasonable grids (15+ drivers grid) that run at hours that are friendly to North-American too; And no I do not race in public race, I just don't enjoy it as much.

I do not race at FSR because I don't feel like waking-up at 6A.M on a Sunday even if it have all I want (Good grid size, Standing, Career like structure and Broadcasts). And most other leagues run during the week on european times (Can't blame them, the demand is bigger on the old continent). That's just my point of view as an average eastern-canadian.

I will end by agreeing with the statement about Steam.
If the game would be integrated in steam, everything would be waaay simplier for everyone, auto-update of every piece of content when newer version, bigger visibility towards consumer base; just makes it more user-friendly.

 

[Guy Moulton]

I'm worried about the future of rF2 as well. Simcade is the way a lot of people are going and all the simcade titles now are chipping away at sim racing. rF2 is a lot harder than rF1 and it is turning people off.

Rain, flat spotting, realroad etc- all that is difficult. So you hear people whine constantly about how this feature or that feature doesn't work right but the real truth is that some people were great at rF1, they locked up all 4 at every corner, abused the tires, no rain, no flatspots, getting off the line meant nothing- and they were fast. Now, you have to race and it's hard. One bad corner and you are done and that is a lot easier to do in rF2 than in rF1. rF2 is more unforgiving than any other sim. So these people make up excuses to explain why they now suck. It has to be the game.

So all we read about are the bad things with rf2 and that, along with the difficulty level of the game in general, is driving people away. I love rF2, because I love the added level of difficulty. I am getting sick of empty grids however.

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

I'm worried about the future of rF2 as well. Simcade is the way a lot of people are going and all the simcade titles now are chipping away at sim racing. rF2 is a lot harder than rF1 and it is turning people off.

Rain, flat spotting, realroad etc- all that is difficult. So you hear people whine constantly about how this feature or that feature doesn't work right but the real truth is that some people were great at rF1, they locked up all 4 at every corner, abused the tires, no rain, no flatspots, getting off the line meant nothing- and they were fast. Now, you have to race and it's hard. One bad corner and you are done and that is a lot easier to do in rF2 than in rF1. rF2 is more unforgiving than any other sim. So these people make up excuses to explain why they now suck. It has to be the game.

So all we read about are the bad things with rf2 and that, along with the difficulty level of the game in general, is driving people away. I love rF2, because I love the added level of difficulty. I am getting sick of empty grids however.

To be honest I dont know what people can find so difficult about rF2. You have to drive smoother than before of course, but in my first few hours of AC I think I crashed 3times as much or even more than in rF2.
Of course it is easier to drive around in AC at a slow pace, but if I want to go fast I find it a lot more difficult than rF2.

 

[William Néron]

The thing is that a huge part of the consumer base think racing is all "Pedal-to-the-metal" with drifting all around the place ala Fast N' Furious. That's the kind that will enjoy Grids and the like, while the rest like you and me, enjoy the challenge of "Driving slowly".

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

The thing is that a huge part of the consumer base think racing is all "Pedal-to-the-metal" with drifting all around the place ala Fast N' Furious. That's the kind that will enjoy Grids and the like, while the rest like you and me, enjoy the challenge of "Driving slowly".

Yep, that is the funny thing, that if you are really fast it most of the time looks slow. I recently drove some qualy laps in an LMP1 on rF2 and that thing was a bit of a handful on slow corners. In the video it looked all pretty easy, but that was pretty much on the limit. The smal whiggles out of the slow corners are so intense, if you driver yourself

 

[Blkout]

I'm worried about the future of rF2 as well. Simcade is the way a lot of people are going and all the simcade titles now are chipping away at sim racing. rF2 is a lot harder than rF1 and it is turning people off.

Rain, flat spotting, realroad etc- all that is difficult. So you hear people whine constantly about how this feature or that feature doesn't work right but the real truth is that some people were great at rF1, they locked up all 4 at every corner, abused the tires, no rain, no flatspots, getting off the line meant nothing- and they were fast. Now, you have to race and it's hard. One bad corner and you are done and that is a lot easier to do in rF2 than in rF1. rF2 is more unforgiving than any other sim. So these people make up excuses to explain why they now suck. It has to be the game.

So all we read about are the bad things with rf2 and that, along with the difficulty level of the game in general, is driving people away. I love rF2, because I love the added level of difficulty. I am getting sick of empty grids however.

My issue is not with the difficulty of rf2 but with the complete lack of polish. The game feels very raw compared to most other sim racing siblings and its been in development for a long time. It still feels like its in alpha state. The development cycle is taking too long, at this rate, it can't possibly be a success.

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

My issue is not with the difficulty of rf2 but with the complete lack of polish. The game feels very raw compared to most other sim racing siblings and its been in development for a long time. It still feels like its in alpha state. The development cycle is taking too long, at this rate, it can't possibly be a success.

I have to agree unfortunately. There is no polishing in a lot of areas, but in the most parts I don't care as it drives (to me) a lot better than everything else I have tested, which doesn't include iRacing or pCars.

For me it is like combine the graphics and UI from AC with the multiplayer possibilities and physics/FFB of rF2 and it would be the perfect sim.

After driving a lot of rF2 I can't stand tracks with the same grip level no matter how you take the corner, because it just is not real, if you have ever driving a Kart or something like that.
In Silverstone it was shocking for me which weird lines I could drive in AC and could get away with and even be faster then on the "real world" line, which I use in rF2 and which is used by every driver I saw driving around Silverstone.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I am getting sick of empty grids however.

Empty grids are a choice

If people stopped fragmentating the community, just race at a few central sites with large fields that problem wouldn't be there, not even for rF2.

But most sims nowadays have more servers online than players, all offer the same awesome racing experience but in practice most servers run idle.

I blame it on the self destructive nature of simracing.

• I can't win races at community A, lets start my own community B
• Admin X gave me a penalty, i don't agree, Lets split and do it better.
• Got punted in T1 due to an incident, lets go berserk on a forum and get myself banned.
• etc
• etc

You can compile a huge list of reasons.

Fact is that these people all think they have the knowledge and dedication to become the central hub in racing. In practice they give up after six months realizing its more work than they expected.

Just visit sites that used to be online a couple of years ago and most of them have vanished. Yet you see the same names popping up all the time which means that our simracing niche is small, tiny, microscopic compared to other games.

Simracers should unite, learn how to lose a race and in general be less negative and dramatic and then the future looks bright. Its not the game, its (some of) the people.

If not, we'll be racing in random lobbies in Forza and GT on the Playstation / Xbox in a few years from now as we then have successfully pushed away all the developers from the PC.

Business wise you can better develop an android / ios app about an angry looking bird than invest 25 years of gmotor engine development for a tiny market of PC simracers.

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

Empty grids are a choice

If people stopped fragmentating the community, just race at a few central sites with large fields that problem wouldn't be there, not even for rF2.

But most sims nowadays have more servers online than players, all offer the same awesome racing experience but in practice most servers run idle.

I blame it on the self destructive nature of simracing.

• I can't win races at community A, lets start my own community B
• Admin X gave me a penalty, i don't agree, Lets split and do it better.
• Got punted in T1 due to an incident, lets go berserk on a forum and get myself banned.
• etc
• etc

You can compile a huge list of reasons.

Fact is that these people all think they have the knowledge and dedication to become the central hub in racing. In practice they give up after six months realizing its more work than they expected.

Just visit sites that used to be online a couple of years ago and most of them have vanished. Yet you see the same names popping up all the time which means that our simracing niche is small, tiny, microscopic compared to other games.

Simracers should unite, learn how to lose a race and in general be less negative and dramatic and then the future looks bright. Its not the game, its (some of) the people.

If not, we'll be racing in random lobbies in Forza and GT on the Playstation / Xbox in a few years from now as we then have successfully pushed away all the developers from the PC.

Business wise you can better develop an android / ios app about an angry looking bird than invest 25 years of gmotor engine development for a tiny market of PC simracers.

Some good RD advertising , but seriously it is a pain.
At the moment I try to get more competetive rF2 racing in and besides RD, I am running two diffrent leauges on another two sites and on Thursday probably on the third besides RD. There are a lot more out there, but often I didn't agree to the content used or something like that, so I didn't race there. By the end of this month I most probably have raced in 6 diffrent communities this year alone and only to get maybe 15 leauge style races in in half a year.

For a driver it is a pain in the ... I will setup in the next days a seperate calendar just to be able to keep and overview over the events I would like to run.

The most funny thing is, that I see a lot of people I know from RD in the other communities.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

With that in mind, why not grab those heads together and help the staff here with their jobs? Afterall its a community, everybody can step up and help out

And if all these sites struggle to get a normal sized grid, what is stopping them to work together and fill them up.

With the right exposure, lots of time and sheer dedication you can make everything work, even filling up empty grids.

Its a choice and our door is always open

 

[Lou Sytsma]

My issue is not with the difficulty of rf2 but with the complete lack of polish. The game feels very raw compared to most other sim racing siblings and its been in development for a long time. It still feels like its in alpha state. The development cycle is taking too long, at this rate, it can't possibly be a success.

Yes, raw is the best way to describe rFactor2.

Aesthetically this translates to a sim that to me has the muddiest graphics. There's a lack of sharpness and vibrancy to rFactor2 that places a permanent perceptual umbrella on me that dampens my desire and enthusiasm to play the game.

I recently downloaded the MidOhio track for this and Game Stock Car Extreme and hands down the GSC looks better, more alive and keeps me coming back for more. The rFactor2 version not so much. Yet both provide a great racing experience.

We are all in accord that graphics are not the prime determining factor in what makes a great racing sim but presentation does count. All other things being equal or close, a more polished and better looking product will sway players to the more attractive one.

 

[yusupov]

i think simcade HELPS simracing; i dont really see how it could be otherwise. you dont start a game on the hardest difficulty & then go down the ladder.

we have no less (and possibily more than) four indie sim titles for the PC now, plus R3E & iracing, & with the exception of pcars which i cant say anything about other than graphics, those 4 are all very strong in a lot of aspects.

i think one of the 'problems' is its not just rfactor anymore. the market has grown and theres more room now. as rf1 died out, there was a vacuum & we're still waiting to see who & what its going to be filled by. but, while im brand new to simracing, i cant help but feel this must be something of a golden age. i def feel we are really spoiled for choice & surely some of that has to do with forza & gt fans looking for something more. (sadly they still literally have to really look to find it, but maybe pcars will change that)