PC2 The way traction control works doesn't seem right

[Catlin]

I have just played a GT3 race online and suddenly on the straight i noticed that my input on the throttle was going on and off after changing the TC settings on the fly and making my car sound like a helicopter. I thought my pedals were dying at first.

I have just tested with other cars with traction control on and off and noticed that it doesn't even put 50% of throttle on some cars, ON A STRAIGHT.

What is going on here?

also turns out in the car management box 0.01 does not mean TC off....

 

[tlsmikey]

Yeah, i don't know why they gave us traction control increments of 0.01 through 1.00. Ridiculous. iRacing and AC modeled this correctly by giving us steps that you would see in real life which are typicall 1-12 in cars and adjusted via button.

I'm hopeful this is something they fix shortly. I despise having to click up through 50 steps to get it to where I want it.

 

[ermo]

I have just played a GT3 race online and suddenly on the straight i noticed that my input on the throttle was going on and off after changing the TC settings on the fly and making my car sound like a helicopter. I thought my pedals were dying at first.

I have just tested with other cars with traction control on and off and noticed that it doesn't even put 50% of throttle on some cars, ON A STRAIGHT.

What is going on here?

also turns out in the car management box 0.01 does not mean TC off....

I believe the setting you refer to sets the amount of slip (0.01 = 1%, 1.00 = 100%) that is allowed before TC intervenes.

In your specific case, setting TC to 1.00 should mean "TC allows 100% slip", which means that you can spin the tires as much as you like (so it is effectively off).

Setting it to 0.01 means that TC will intervene if it detects more than 1% slip, which could easily happen when accelerating on a straight.

So you've essentially just confirmed that the TC is working as designed; it just doesn't work as you expected?

 

[ermo]

Yeah, i don't know why they gave us traction control increments of 0.01 through 1.00. Ridiculous. iRacing and AC modeled this correctly by giving us steps that you would see in real life which are typicall 1-12 in cars and adjusted via button.

I'm hopeful this is something they fix shortly. I despise having to click up through 50 steps to get it to where I want it.

For fine tuning, I think the 1-100% allowed slip is really cool, but I will concede that it might be more cumbersome to adjust on the fly in a race compared to what you outline.

 

[tlsmikey]

Agreed, I just want it to be realistic. They're saying its a "sim" and they don't provide the adjustable levels of TC, ABS or stability that are found in these cars. I find that frustrating.

 

[bmanic]

They just don't provide the "preset saved values" of TC and ABS settings that are available in real life racing. However the actual tuning of the amount is available in real cars too. You just set it up as you want each preset to be. This for instance is not available in any other sim either.. so does that make them less "sim" as well? pCars allows the free tweaking, which is available in real life, but doesn't give us the preset slots.. while other games do not give the free tweaking but give the presets that correspond to certain numbers.

I do hope we get the TC and ABS settings a lot more granulized (aka the "presets"). It would make it much easier to tweak during the race. Hopefully we can create our own preset values and could assign these to rotary encoders or buttons. That way you could operate the TC like some drivers do in real life.. you'd choose the correct TC for each corner section and also depending on your fuel load and tire wear.

Anyhow, your logic is just weird for justifying what is "sim" or not. If this is how we categorize games.. then pCars 2 is easily at the top considering how many different real life things it simulates compared to all the competition.

 

[Chadd]

I believe the setting you refer to sets the amount of slip (0.01 = 1% - 1.00 = 100%) that is allowed before TC intervenes.

In your specific case, setting TC to 1.00 should mean "TC allows 100% slip", which means that you can spin the tires as much as you like (so it is effectively off).

Setting it to 0.01 means that TC will intervene if it detects more than 1% slip, which could easily happen when accelerating on a straight.

So you've essentially just confirmed that the TC is working as designed; it just doesn't work as you expected?

Does the ABS work the same way? Is 100% the max ABS or lowest?

 

[Leynad777]

Does the ABS work the same way? Is 100% the max ABS or lowest?

No, it's the opposite with ABS and in the setup there are accurate descriptions for both in the ECU-section of the tuning-setups, which can be easily overlooked because it's hidden under the gear-ratio.

 

[ermo]

They just don't provide the "preset saved values" of TC and ABS settings that are available in real life racing.
(...)
Anyhow, your logic is just weird for justifying what is "sim" or not. If this is how we categorize games.. then pCars 2 is easily at the top considering how many different real life things it simulates compared to all the competition.

I actually find tlsmikey's logic quite straightforward if you compare his example with real, million dollar flight sims used for training real pilots, where every dial, button, lever and instrument is where it is in the real plane and works the same way.

From that perspective, the (currently) missing presets takes us away from the "how-we-operate-the-car" physical realism, even if our tech allows more fine-grained adjustments to be made compared to other titles (that are perhaps more true to life in the "how-we-operate-the-car" physical realism).

Your proposed solution (being able to configure dials and/or buttons and mappings) then becomes the missing link for the physical "how-we-operate-the-car" realism that @tlsmikey is referring to?

FWIW, I'm beginning to think that "sim-ness" need not be confined to technical, "under the hood" simulation value alone, but perhaps also how accurately (as in "how-we-operate-the-car") that tech and simulation value is presented to the user compared with the real deal (e.g. ICM vs. physical dial mapping) in the sense of "Can I train my motor reflexes using pC2, such that I instinctively reach for the correct dial and adjust it like I would if I were sat in the real car in a racing situation?".

I haven't really given that much thought before now, but I can see why this could be rather important to a specific segment of the market pC2 caters to. It is my impression that this is also why said certain segment will complain *vehemently* if a track isn't *exactly* like the real thing -- it messes with the reference points you instinctively use when on track, possibly leading you to build up bad habits.

Am I making sense?

 

[jimortality]

I actually find tlsmikey's logic quite straightforward if you compare his example with real, million dollar flight sims used for training real pilots, where every dial, button, lever and instrument is where it is in the real plane and works the same way.

From that perspective, the (currently) missing presets takes us away from the "how-we-operate-the-car" physical realism, even if our tech allows more fine-grained adjustments to be made compared to other titles (that are perhaps more true to life in the "how-we-operate-the-car" physical realism).

Your proposed solution (being able to configure dials and/or buttons and mappings) then becomes the missing link for the physical "how-we-operate-the-car" realism that @tlsmikey is referring to?

FWIW, I'm beginning to think that "sim-ness" need not be confined to technical, "under the hood" simulation value alone, but perhaps also how accurately (as in "how-we-operate-the-car") that tech and simulation value is presented to the user compared with the real deal (e.g. ICM vs. physical dial mapping) in the sense of "Can I train my motor reflexes using pC2, such that I instinctively reach for the correct dial and adjust it like I would if I were sat in the real car in a racing situation?".

I haven't really given that much thought before now, but I can see why this could be rather important to a specific segment of the market pC2 caters to. It is my impression that this is also why said certain segment will complain *vehemently* if a track isn't *exactly* like the real thing -- it messes with the reference points you instinctively use when on track, possibly leading you to build up bad habits.

Am I making sense?

No

 

[Brandon Wright]

No

Made total sense to me.

 

[jimortality]

Made total sense to me.

I'm not you

 

[Brandon Wright]

I'm not you

Allow me to explain then. Ermo was simply suggesting that we sim racers, who spend ungodly amounts of money on plastic racing toys, generally care more about feeling like we're in an actual race car and doing actual race car driver things than we care about having super detailed controls or settings that would give us more options than would normally be available to a race car driver. Because immersion.

 

[tlsmikey]

Let me give another example.

iRacing Ford GTE car. The steering wheel not only has buttons for Traction control 1 and 2(yaw) and ABS. If I map the traction control and ABS buttons to my wheel like you would have in the real car I can adjust on the fly. Not only that but in iRacing the buttons move when I do this.

It's these little details that really make the difference. Not suggesting that PCars2 isn't a sim btw. It is, but small details like this need to be implemented.

 

[ermo]

Allow me to explain then. Ermo was simply suggesting that we sim racers, who spend ungodly amounts of money on plastic racing toys, generally care more about feeling like we're in an actual race car and doing actual race car driver things than we care about having super detailed controls or settings that would give us more options than would normally be available to a race car driver. Because immersion.

(emphasis mine)

Not so much "suggesting" as "on the path to the realization that (...)". I'm just trying to understand you guys and what makes you tick.

I don't yet consider myself a sim racer as such -- I'm interested in driving technique and interested in the tech and all the under the hood stuff, but I don't consider myself a 'racer' per se if that makes sense?

If I were to self-identify, I'd say that I'm probably 80% engineer / 20% driver.

 

[ermo]

Let me give another example.

iRacing Ford GTE car. The steering wheel not only has buttons for Traction control 1 and 2(yaw) and ABS. If I map the traction control and ABS buttons to my wheel like you would have in the real car I can adjust on the fly. Not only that but in iRacing the buttons move when I do this.

It's these little details that really make the difference. Not suggesting that PCars2 isn't a sim btw. It is, but small details like this need to be implemented.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I'm just trying to understand you guys and what makes you tick.

Just stop there, while you still have some sanity and hope for humanity left.

 

[Catlin]

I believe the setting you refer to sets the amount of slip (0.01 = 1%, 1.00 = 100%) that is allowed before TC intervenes.

In your specific case, setting TC to 1.00 should mean "TC allows 100% slip", which means that you can spin the tires as much as you like (so it is effectively off).

Setting it to 0.01 means that TC will intervene if it detects more than 1% slip, which could easily happen when accelerating on a straight.

So you've essentially just confirmed that the TC is working as designed; it just doesn't work as you expected?

That explains it, thanks.