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tactile feedback with LFEs

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by Magiashkii, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. Magiashkii

    Magiashkii

    Messages:
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    Ratings:
    +8
    Just wanted to share my journey with adding tactile feedback to my existing 8020 rig.
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    I started down this road by following a thread posted by Mr. Latte. We spoke about the pros and cons and what would work best. The rig i have now has gone through many changes as i wanted a better experience while sim racing. I will have to dig up pictures of my home built rig so you can see the progression that got me to this point. It has been a really fun transition to go from a simple rig to something that has become a beast with help from many members in the community. Tactile feedback was the next plan to add another level of immersion and i was very lucky to find Mr. Latte for this new project. His knowledge base is just simply amazing and i can't thank him enough. Here are some starting pictures and i will be uploading more as i go through the build. Once it's built, i will provide feedback to hopefully help others in the community
    four LFEs ready to do battle in chassis mode
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    more to come this week...
     
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  2. Ceolmor

    Ceolmor
    Premium

    Messages:
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    +15
  3. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    In a more serious note however appreciation is nice but I enjoy this and the whole adventure, puzzle solving of it all in finding ways to implement the hardware and get good performance.

    Big Energy / Big Challenges Ahead?
    Talking of a challenge this thread brings one for a potentially rather special cockpit.
    So let's see, a race rig with VR3 motion, with GS4 motion and going to use high-end tactile, mmmmm

    We don't seem to see any rigs using this combo and such a high level of tactile so it brings challenges how to best install the tactile as to date we can only see some rigs with the VR3 using a BK Gamer or with smaller/budget tactile attached. If anything @HoiHman has the best example of tactile on a GS4 seat and using the same VR3 motion.

    iNuke DSP amps will help get extra detail out of the BK-LFE shakers. As while they undoubtedly have the best low-end frequency performance and up to crazy amounts of energy. They do lack in detailing with mid and higher frequencies compared to some other models that excel with those frequencies.
    As this user will discover we can alter the character of the units to perform better detailing, with improved presence for frequencies in the 60+ Hz range.


    Keen to see how this goes its gonna be one to watch....
    There are some ideas to float about and discuss but like always it's up to the owner to decide how and what to do.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
    • Love Love x 1
  4. Magiashkii

    Magiashkii

    Messages:
    19
    Ratings:
    +8
    here are the build pictures for adding the LFEs to my rig. I need to create a base on top of the v3 to hold them since mounting them on my frame was so isolated from the seat that i would never feel them. i used 8020 (40mm x 40mm) for all added parts
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    then i just had to make the arms that would mount directly to the top of the v3
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    here is the completed rear mounting system
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  5. Magiashkii

    Magiashkii

    Messages:
    19
    Ratings:
    +8
    the front pedal assembly needed a change from the current setup. it was very rigid but lacked any place to mount the front LFEs
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    so i made a new assembly to hold each pedal separately
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    the finished pedal base ready for my HPPs
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    and mounted with pedals
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  6. Magiashkii

    Magiashkii

    Messages:
    19
    Ratings:
    +8
    the finished front
    [​IMG]
    and the rear
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  7. Magiashkii

    Magiashkii

    Messages:
    19
    Ratings:
    +8
    With the help of Mr. Latte i purchased the proper amps with DSP to get the best experience and be able to fine tune the range to make sure there is no bottoming out with the LFEs
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    and added a second sound card for SSW
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    wiring the LFEs on the base was a issue due to the movement but this was my solution
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    now onto testing with files from Mr. Latte. I will be updating with the results of what worked and if there are any mods to the install of hardware to make sure that the energy from the bass shakers isn't lost in the frame
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Ceolmor

    Ceolmor
    Premium

    Messages:
    36
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    +15
  9. HoiHman

    HoiHman

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    Great rig Magiashkii :thumbsup:

    Very, very simular set up to mine. I hope you tested the effect of the 80/20 frame + 2 LFE's on the COG (center of gravity) of your seat combination.

    You might be pushing the limits of the Next Level Motion V3 with the added weight unless you are a very light guy.

    Looking forward to your progress and feedback on having four LFE's in chassis mode. This comes dangerously close to my dream tactile setup. I would just add an extra transducer to the back of the GS-4 for engine RPM only (as i have, this might also solve the issue that @Ceolmor is describing)



    Just another tip for extra immersion (when you're done with tactile). As you probably have noticed the G-force effect of the GS-4 is felt less when the NLMv3 also moves left/right. This can be compensated by modding the back panels and effectively give about the twice feedback in the corners.

    Check out my youtube channel for a video of my modded GS-4 in action
    https://www.youtube.com/user/HoiHman/videos
     
  10. Magiashkii

    Magiashkii

    Messages:
    19
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    +8
    i'm a light guy at 145 lbs so i'm below the weight restriction of the v3 for now. Where would you add the transducer on the back of the v3? The only place i thought of adding one would be on the bottom of the gs4... let me know your thoughts. Can you give me more info on the gs4 mods and pictures too
     
  11. Magiashkii

    Magiashkii

    Messages:
    19
    Ratings:
    +8
    so here is another update... tactile feedback from the rear is absolutely amazing and has totally transformed the driving and immersion. The car to road feel is another huge jump from just having the v3 seat mover. Being able to catch the car and feel the edge of traction is some that was just a visual queue to now something that feels so natural. It's hard to describe but driving just becomes more instinctive. Now on to the front pedal section... this needed an update and a simple move of the attachment point. When i put the rig together in the very beginning it was all about being as stiff as possible but not that part is killing any tactile feel in the front. I moved the LFEs from the cross member of the main frame
    [​IMG]
    to directly to the pedals to reduce the loss of tactile energy
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    it's a super tight fit but now there is less energy loss into the main frame.
    To enhance the road feel, i have worked with Mr. Latte on a few custom files for the LFEs. What truly amazes me about the LFEs is that there is so much feel they bring out in any sim but there is so little noise that they produce. The Next Level v3 produces much more noise, which is still a very quiet unit for motion when compared to other motion solutions. This current configuration was better but i still need better isolation from the pedal assembly to the frame. I just purchased isolators that will be used between the main frame and pedals to eliminate a solid metal to metal connection. i will update the rig and give feedback on what works better. In the meantime i have downloaded some new profiles created by Mr. Latte (aka the tactile guru) to enhance the lower frequency output and really get the LFEs coming to life. So far SSW has been a great tool but the only thing missing is the engine feedback. Luckily i already have Simcommander 4 for my GS4 so i'm going to try to add engine and gear tactile feedback soon. If SSW had that one option i think it might be almost a perfect solution... hint hint i would love to see it added soon if possible. Stay tuned in for the performance review using the new profiles in the iNukes
     
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  12. signman

    signman
    Premium

    Messages:
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    Staying tuned !
     
  13. Magiashkii

    Magiashkii

    Messages:
    19
    Ratings:
    +8
    there was a little setback as the miter saw i was using to cut my 8020 died and i haven't been able to finish the new pieces needed for adding these into the build
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    the 4 isolators will be added to the pedal assembly to reduce the loss of tactile feedback into the main frame sections by disconnecting the hard mount of metal to metal with the 8020 sections. Each isolator is rated to 375 lbs and therefore not flex under heavy braking but i could be completely wrong and the whole pedal assembly might flex like a wet noodle... and that would suck which would make me wrong as usual LOL. The ADXs will be added with 1 under the pedals and 1 under the GS4 for engine feedback using Simvibe. Since using the current added sound card for SSW and running a Rift, i can use Simvibe off of the onboard audio on the MB
     
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