Setup question

[Robert Crone]

Hi, this might be a dumb question to ask but since I'm a noob in setups, I'm allowed to ask I hope =p

Is there something you can adjust on the car to let your car brake later? With braking later I mean that you're still able to get the turn right. At the moment I have to brake early to get the turn, I think this is a problem I'm losing time with, not sure though, but I can try.

I just watched Greger Huttu online and he brakes waaaaaaaay later, but maybe the reason for this is because he is driving in a BMW and me in a Chevy?

Thanks!

 

[Krister Larsson]

Not more than the break distribution and power. Then you have the area of rubber contact to the track. High tire pressure and a lot of camber often means you are running with less rubber contact in straight line than less camber och lower tire pressure.

 

[Keith Peppiatt]

in my opinion later braking comes with track knowledge and confidence in the whole car set up and knowing how it will handle. unfortunatley there is no magic button.

I have just started tweaking balance for different corners while on the lap which is helping shave fractions off my times.

I'm still relativley new to this too so fully understand where you are coming from - you look at some people and go how did he brake that late?!?!

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Why not point this question directly to Greger The trick is called trailbraking..

 

[James Yates]

Hi, this might be a dumb question to ask but since I'm a noob in setups, I'm allowed to ask I hope =p

Is there something you can adjust on the car to let your car brake later? With braking later I mean that you're still able to get the turn right. At the moment I have to brake early to get the turn, I think this is a problem I'm losing time with, not sure though, but I can try.

I just watched Greger Huttu online and he brakes waaaaaaaay later, but maybe the reason for this is because he is driving in a BMW and me in a Chevy?

Thanks!

A lot of it is down to the fact that you can trailbrake in the BMW much easier than any of the front wheel drive cars as it will not understeer despite the fact that you are braking.

I find if you put the brake bias on the front wheel drive cars to something like 54:46 it allows you to brake later as you can still turn it.

 

[Robert Crone]

Thanks for all the answers

 

[Keith Peppiatt]

had a thought on this... (the guys in my team at work always hard it when i say those words as it usually means a bit of skill and graft required!!)

anyway, possible for someone refined in the art of trailbraking to do a short demo vid?

Thinking cut screen: external view of car, camera on footpedal, possible camera on steering input too, possible run of motec data graphs showing steering input, brake and speed.

Also possible for someone that trailbrakes and uses motec to post their lap files here so I can compare against my own laps?

Being selfish I'd like to see this in a lacetti, but happy whatever is someone has the time and patience to pull this together. (me looks at atti)

 

[Attila Domján]

ehm, i am not so sofisticated in my racing approach, i never ever used Motec, even dunno how to install it, neither read anything about trailbraking.

I just balance my car with throttle and brake during the braking and during the complete corner, never really releasing completely none of them, and turn my wheel when the corner comes.
So during the braking zone i also apply touch of throttle as well, to keep the revs high for engine braking, not to let the engine die, and i finish the braking zone not in the straight before starting the corner, but during the beginning of cornering, around 20-30% already being in the corner, and there release the brake completely at the beginning of start to accelerate out from the corner. Depending on how long is the corner itself, can be that there is a dead time in the middle of the corner, after finishing the braking and starting the acceleration out, just keep the car at the max possible apex speed (for example at hairpins).

But if you look at the race videos from Istanbul, and how Greger flypassed me on the braking zone, then you would want to ask it directly from him i think

Can be that it is also coming from the difference in the cars, Chevy FWD vs BMW RWD, but he is having much shorter braking zones compared to me, i had quite a long look on comparing our laps, and the only difference is coming form the shorter braking zones.
Racing Lines, straight line speed, apex speed all the same (apex speed i even usually have a bit higher, 1-2 km/h), but simply he can start to brake later then me, and still reaching the needed apex speed in-time.

 

[Jamie Wilson]

I shall sort out a MoTeC config guide some time this week - easier now that the PLR is unlocked - and I'm working on a special 'Camera Car' that our aliens can use for media purposes too, enabling myself and Stephen particularly to do such snazzy videos.

 

[Attila Domján]

he he, i just made some google search on trail braking to find out the exact meaning it is actually what i am doing, good to know

Trail braking: where the brakes are used beyond the entrance to a turn and are gradually released up to the point of apex.

 

[Jarrod Crossley]

Borrowed and edited from a post I made.

Trail braking, some people say you should never trail brake while others say you should. of course the truth lays some where in between. in some corners in some cars you need to trail brake alot and in others very little. it varies on the corner and the car you are driving, its your job to work out which is best.

How to determine how mutch trail brake is need in each corner (and car)? begin by asking yourself , does the car turn in to the corner well? if not try trail braking a little more - gradually easing (trailing) off the brake as you turn in , or does the car feel unstable or unbalanced going through the turn? if so try comming off the brakes and getting back on the throttle just as you turn in, in this case there may be not a trail braking phase.

 

[Stephen Rogers]

thanks for taking time to tell us your method of driving atti. :thumb:i have listened to how your revs keep so high and always wondered at the difference of my revs and yours... atti :racecar:

I have played around with using my accelerator and brake in corners when practicing but thought i was just messing about never used it seriously .. time to go back to the practice track for me. mmm trailbraking ... must go to google as well

btw any g25 owners did you find the brakes on the g25 helped you at all... i have a momo which is great but ive got that niggling thought in the back of my head it keeps saying get a g25 ....dam thoughts lol

 

[Luc Frachon]

I think the brake pedal on the G25 feels a lot better than on the old Wingman I had before because it is harder, but it's still different from a real car, mainly because you control the amount of braking not based on the pressure applied, but on pedal position.
In other words, the strenght needed to push the pedal is pretty much constant, whereas on a real car (because it's hydrolic), you need to apply more and more pressure the further the pedal goes down. Interestingly, I brake with the left foot on the G25, but am unable to do it in a real car because of this difference.
Also, I can heel-and-toe on most cars in real life but find it almost impossible with the G25 because the throttle and brake pedals are exactly on the same plan, so when you press the brakes, it is very difficult to apply any throttle (in real life, the brake pedal is higher).

Atti, the point you're making is interesting, about how you keep applying throttle while braking. I know it works for you (and rather well, looking at your amazing lap times) but I wonder how... Technically, this seems like simply shifting the braking balance towards the rear of the car (on a FWD car of course). Would you not achieve the same result by setting the brake balance more to the rear in your setup, then braking less hard or decreasing max braking pressure?
Or maybe you method allows you to finely control the braking balance all the way through the braking process? Did you give it a thought?

 

[Attila Domján]

yes, of course i was thinking about it why and how it is working for me like that.
Actually the main thing to keep the revs high to maximize the engine brake power, in the meantime also i tend to have the brake balance quite at the front, but not too much i think, usually it is 58.5 front which suits me the best.

 

[Keith Peppiatt]

thanks for taking time to respond. :thumb:

i think maybe a just need a little more confidence to apply the brake initially a little heavier and later. releasing during the turn into the apex i sometimes do already, but not consistently.

more practice... and who knows, maybe quali for group 8 at valencia

as for rwd... still putting that to a side after practicing at valencia last week and spinning on all of the first 3 corners under braking (oops!)

 

[Neil Tennant]

as for rwd... still putting that to a side after practicing at valencia last week and spinning on all of the first 3 corners under braking (oops!)

Try keeping a bit of throttle on while braking, i use about 1 inch? of pressure on the throttle while braking.