SEASON 9 RACE 5 SUZUKA INCIDENT REPORT

[Sean Greenlaw]

I see no need for you to leave Peter we have always had good close racing and pace is fine
I was just meaning that turn you should have expected Vincenzo to slow when he yeilded there and just hang back throught 130r with the issue brought up in the lag thread, as i said in my replay Vincenzo is tighter and you car is also wider my replay to. (Ive added pics to show)

So obviously sometimes in 130r with the speeds change of position on track its really affecting the sync issue. Most of the time the sync issue is small taps or spins but looks to have been alot in this turn and if contact there some gets hurt but obviously you didnt mean this and are very sorry for Vincenzo . Just that it could have been avoided If sticking to what Nico said in prep thread.

We can all race really close 90% of the time but sometimes we have to more cautious than even in real f1 as we are racing online with people around the world which is a great achievement itself. That small extra caution at times means everyone will get to enjoy this race and we dont need to feel bad because we hurt anyones race so its win win I know sometimes people can be affected being on recieving end after a while, however unfortunate the incident is.

If you see your replay your driving perfect leaving room but just seems this corner it was nearly impossible to go side by side and know where cars is with sync issue. I also find it interesting that in distance i seem to be in slight different position also.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

Random incidents and tech stuff are not among our major concerns, it's the driver's attitude and sportsmanship that are the most important factors for a simracing leagues success. Therefore, I always think of you when I search in memory for those of us who have a record to be proud of.

Peter, I think the same as Valter. What matters is your intentions and sportmanship, and everybody in the league knows you have no problems there. But obviously it is more challenging for you as all your opponents are like Aussies are to me

Having perfect sportmanship makes the league self-running. those who fear creating an incident more than anything will automatically do their best to avoid them. This is how we need all drivers to behave to make the league run by itself.

It is a paradox that the terrible feeling you get from creating an incident makes you consider quitting, as it is this feeling that I wish all drivers would get if they created an incident (if you know what I mean).

I'm not sure Presto GP can survive losing you Peter, you represent all the right values and have been here from the start. And, you are more skilled than Valter and I and many others (but have less time to practice),

I myself was quite demotivated after the race, but after a while I remembered all the fun I get from the good races and got my motivation back (until I saw that you were more demotivated than me).

Lastly I would like to say that I have never experienced problems racing "close" to you. I apply those extra safety margins, prepare myself for passing when pitting if I cannot find a safe way past, nemo problemo.

 

[David Turnbull]

i must admit im like nico, ive never experienced any problems round you on track peter, i get more sync problems with anthony and tim, their being brought up regular again so we are all adjusting our driving accordingly to compensate for it, suzuka was a one off i think, there was a lot of lag about and i think the videos and screens show the biggest sync issue weve ever had in presto, that gap was huge between cars there shouldve been no contact but unfortunatly there was, you and vince cant compensate for that and its no ones fault, id be sorry to see you leave peter your one of the main members that have kept presto going so long, hopefully you reconsider

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I have looked at both your incidents Peter, and my (as always) honest impression is that the first one looks like an avoidable incident caused by you, however, the consequences does not seem all that great, 10 sec lost for both of u is not end of world.

The second one however, I can see that the situation was sprung on you, and I doubt I would have been able to solve it any better myself. Although a great shame for Vincenzo, I do not think you should feel too bad about it Peter.

One could argue that you should have anticipated Vincenzo lifting to avoid going side by side through 130r, but that will be the lesson for all in future races. (I do not think Vincenzo did anything wrong, nor Sean)

Please Peter, don't leave us I've uploaded the stuff to mydrive that I know you like so much

 

[Dino Paolini]

q: no cutting

r: After the start, approaching turn1 I had a light contact with Tim's tires.
Reason was that I slowly got more to the left side of the track, not knowing that Tim was quite near to my car already.
My reason for going more to the left was, that I never took turn1 from so far of the right side of the track and I feared that it could end really bad for me (and maybe others too), if I would have experimented with such an entry-angle at this moment.
Good thing is nothing happened here with either of our cars.

no incidents for the rest of the race

 

[Valter Ostman]

I have looked at both your incidents Peter, and my (as always) honest impression is that the first one looks like an avoidable incident caused by you, however, the consequences does not seem all that great, 10 sec lost for both of u is not end of world.

The second one however, I can see that the situation was sprung on you, and I doubt I would have been able to solve it any better myself. Although a great shame for Vincenzo, I do not think you should feel too bad about it Peter.

One could argue that you should have anticipated Vincenzo lifting to avoid going side by side through 130r, but that will be the lesson for all in future races. (I do not think Vincenzo did anything wrong, nor Sean)

Please Peter, don't leave us I've uploaded the stuff to mydrive that I know you like so much

I know I should keep quiet about my view of the first incident because I'm not as skilled as Peter and Vincenzo and no witness to the truth. But anyway, it's a chain of unfortunate small events that causes them to have that contact. This is my free fantasies: First Peter is thinking of getting as close as possible to Vince out from Casio chicane. When closing in he sees an opportunity to maybe overtake there. Vince notices this and brakes late and goes inside to defend his right turn. The bad luck begins; Vince loses control and slides over back to the left again, crossing the racing line and the left lane that Peter has his eyes on when going in. His reaction to that is to try to take the inside line but it's too late. Just one of those things a racing driver has to accept, and move on. I think it's a genuine racing incident where it's hard to put the blame on one of the drivers.

 

[Marko Vuori]

Here is a video I made of my incidents this season. I put them all in one video, because I think they´re all alike. There is my Suzuka incident as well (last incident in the video, starts at 2:52).

TS: 1041
What: Tim pushes Anthony, who then hits me detaching my rear wing and sending me hitting the wall. I had to retire from the race due to this incident. There is a thorough explanation at Tim´s post. I wonder why did this situation lead into such an incident at the first place? Tim initiated his overtaking manouvre already when exiting Degner curve some 400 meters before Hairpin, where the accident finally happened. On the straight between Degner and Hairpin, Anthony´s and Tim´s cars are travelling the same speed, so Tim does not catch Anthony. In other words, Tim has plenty of time to estimate what the cars position would be when entering next corner. The key to understand this incident is that you have to understand how the little kink before the actual hairpin affects the situation. We do not brake for the kink, we brake for the hairpin. Anthony has probably seen Tim in his mirrors, but estimated him to be too far to attempt overtaking, so he decided to stay in the normal racing line for the kink and hairpin. Tim expected Anthony to leave room for him to the right for the kink and hairpin. I think Anthony´s decision to stay in the normal racing line for the kink is a right decision. It´s relatively easy to estimate, if you can safely "shut the door" from a car trying to overtake in a flat out corner like kink, and I think Anthony´s move is safe and predictable in a corner like kink before the hairpin, taken that Tim is two car lengths behind. The incident was caused by a somewhat unexpected reaction (or unresponsiveness?) of Tim to Anthony´s totally predictable move.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Here is a video I made of my incidents this season. I put them all in one video, because I think they´re all alike. There is my Suzuka incident as well, but I´ll write my incident report soon.

Worthy of discussion indeed.... The practice race incident was by a non-member so we need to rule that one out. But there certainly is a pattern there.. Slow long brakes vs aggressive braking is most likely the cause.. The former is acceptable IMHO, i slow my braking during race, ie brakedistances are longer. That's just safer and i don't really shorten them even when in lighter car and good tires during race.

Something that i've noticed in the publics/rd club races.. There this happens all the time, i brake early, they don't... There i'm faster out of the corner, here obviously just about hanging on but mostly it works better overall.. And you guys know from experience that shortest possible (brake)distance is not the fastest way around a corner lap after lap...

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

You have had some bad luck this season Marko
What we can learn is to brake that bit earlier than car ahead at times so you can be sure of not outbraking yourself and going into rear of car ahead.
Keep your chin up Marko you are due some good luck, everyone can only get better and use videos like these to know what not to do in future.
Sometimes maybe with incident reports always in text form we cant always learn from it

 

[Peter Marshall]

I am overwhelmed and humbled by your many kind remarks. Thank you. I will reflect upon your words and my own committment to the league. PrestoGp will survive and thrive just fine without me though as long as it can attract and retain drivers such as Marko, Dino, Bob, Henrik, etc...


Marko reminds me a lot of my old sim-racing buddy Juha [a Finn with a great sense of humour], which is a very good thing to my mind. Juha lead me to believe that "luck", or "lady fortuna", is not a positive part of the Finnish racing psyche. Juha would dislike it intensely if and or when I wrote to him "good luck in the next race". When one chances their hand at a risky move, it is not luck, chance or fortune that decides the outcome. A more 'mature' way of thinking? But [a dreadful word imo] of course, each to their own.

 

[Vincenzo Cavaliere]

Hello guys, sorry my delay to respond

Peter, don't worry about please! I believe thats was more a lag issues incident.. Is perfect your description before, thanks Valter Nico and Sean for help to clear this incident.. I leave my feet on throttle to left Sean overtake to avoid contact, but I do not expecting you also overtake me and I close a bit room for you..

I had race with Peter a lot of times and have to mention Peter is a gentleman racer

guys c u all next

 

[Valter Ostman]

Hello guys, sorry my delay to respond

Peter, don't worry about please! I believe thats was more a lag issues incident.. Is perfect your description before, thanks Valter Nico and Sean for help to clear this incident.. I leave my feet on throttle to left Sean overtake to avoid contact, but I do not expecting you also overtake me and I close a bit room for you..

I had race with Peter a lot of times and have to mention Peter is a gentleman racer

guys c u all next

Vince, in my book you belong to the most clean and fair racers, On and off track. Now you have proved it once again.

 

[Valter Ostman]

Here is a video I made of my incidents this season. I put them all in one video, because I think they´re all alike. There is my Suzuka incident as well, but I´ll write my incident report soon.

My opinion on your incidents:
Incident at Spa. A straight forward easy to assess case. Eliezer should have gone on the right side or slowed down earlier.
Monza Club. It's self explanatory for all of us.
Singapore1. A clear case of misjudgement from Nicolas is the main reason for the contact.
Singapore2. Harder to judge from the clip. I think Tim should have been further in front on you to get the right to claim the inside line there.
Suzuka. Tim should have gone to the left of Anthony instead or slowed down a bit earlier.

 

[Valter Ostman]

I am overwhelmed and humbled by your many kind remarks. Thank you. I will reflect upon your words and my own committment to the league. PrestoGp will survive and thrive just fine without me though as long as it can attract and retain drivers such as Marko, Dino, Bob, Henrik, etc...


Marko reminds me a lot of my old sim-racing buddy Juha [a Finn with a great sense of humour], which is a very good thing to my mind. Juha lead me to believe that "luck", or "lady fortuna", is not a positive part of the Finnish racing psyche. Juha would dislike it intensely if and or when I wrote to him "good luck in the next race". When one chances their hand at a risky move, it is not luck, chance or fortune that decides the outcome. A more 'mature' way of thinking? But [a dreadful word imo] of course, each to their own.

I understand what you are saying mate and I'm so enormously glad that you will continue driving. By the way, I believe in luck

 

[Anthony Ishak]

It is a shame for me to have to do so, but I resign from the league and the seaon.

I will reflect upon your words and my own committment to the league. PrestoGp will survive and thrive just fine without me though as long as it can attract and retain drivers such as Marko, Dino, Bob, Henrik, etc...

i have been so so busy with work lately andwas not able to check the forum and now I got to read your posts a bit late Peter but definitely the team would have not accepted your application to resign and retire the beautiful blue and yellow car .... not yet ..

Happy to see you back ....and....back on the server every sunday ..

 

[Anthony Ishak]

My apology, I know i am a bit late for posting my race incident for being busy with work but i can’t use it as an excuse to skip my duty.

I have already sent Tim a PM to discuss with him these incidents but now I see that he has replied here in details.

1st incident: I can see that this incident has been already discussed with drivers here and Tim apologised for me and Marko so I guess there is not much to add here more than to say all good Tim , things happen , I had to stay on the normal racing lane where the maximum grip is as you were still behind me but if we were side by side before the kink then i would have gone wider and had to brake a bit earlier than normal as the grip is very low of racing lane there.

2nd incident: I could see Tim at my side and pulling so i start slightly lifting off on 7th gear and also shifted down to 6th to get this pass done smoothly for both of us and his car got completely ahead of me, so for my part the pass was done and i thought it was now ok to follow him and right at that moment when i decided to do that Tim’s car slowed more than I anticipated ( now I know because he braked and dropped gear to stay tight on the curb to leave room for me ) but everything went so quickly and that caught me out, my replay shows a slight sync issue that might have helped the contact , luckily Tim could keep going, so my opinion is this incident is a racing incident.

I feel sorry for Marko that his race ended once again when he was looking good for a podium but incidents happen and most importantly we learn from them for next time ..

 

[Marko Vuori]

Edited my incident report (Post #27). It now has my opinion about Tim´s, Anthony´s and my accident.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

No incidents to report

I remember the nudge that Nicolas mentioned, I experienced it the same way. However, no harm was done and thus not an incident

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

My comment to the Tim-Anthony-Marko incident:

As I understand it (roughly); at the time Tim was planning to make a move but expected Anthony to leave room. Anthony did not expect a move and stuck to the racing line. Correct?

Regardless of what acctually happened, and also considering that there were 2x Aussie-cars, I would consider any passing move in that situation highly risky. I can honestly say that I would not risk making a move there at all (even without lag), due to the nature of the racing line (crossing the track at the start of the heavy braking zone).

I think everybody should review their safety vs. competitiveness o'meter and make sure it is set correctly. This meter determind how big risks you are willing to take in the name of competition (% chance of an incident when defending/attacking).

Everybody must understand that it is the motivation of every single driver that keeps this league running, and incidents is the motivation's worst enemy. Safety is our only remedy against incidents, and therefore, the safety vs. competitiveness o'meter must be set far towards safety

 

[Valerio Vinassa]

.......................

It is a shame for me to have to do so, but I resign from the league and the seaon. I have had many great races and as such a lot of fun, however, the competition is now "too hot" [too good] for me to participate in a safe and fair manner.

Thank you all for the many, many years of racing, especially Nico and all the troop. I will monitor your progress from afar. Thank you and appreciation to all...

I read only now and say only one thing Peter:

BACK AT HOME IMMEDIATELY PETER like mommy said years ago